Making a color infrared emulsion

[Andrew O'Neill]

Oh for sure, I was more musing about the comments that had branched off into color separation ideas vs. B&W - and you'd really need to watch the contrast on the E6, mask it, maybe flash it, lots of testing I'd guess. My first real job was in a repro shop in the early 80's, and I use a masking setup/pin registration on my enlarger, so if I wanted to try something like color bromoil and so on, there's a potential path. (And for compositing images, one could shoot E6 against a blue screen and make masks for B&W or color work the old-school way, which would be something that might interest an obsessive ADHD type).

As far as IR film with that old-school look, I did a very quick experiment where I pre-washed Rollei's IR 400 and dried it before exposing it - it was very very "glowey", but haven't done anything further with it. The Rollei is a nice film with several moods available, but really works best with a 680 vs 720 filter, not as IR sensitive. I'm kinda "seen one white tree, seen 'em all" so I like it with a deep red filter for lith prints, can get a little surreal.

I always have a few holders with Rollei IR and AH layer removed. It certainly does help give it a slight HIE look. The more exposure you give, the better! EI 1.5 to 3 with R72 filter.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I'm happy that you think this is possible, that's what I've been trying to work towards

I should have added the qualifiers - finding the couplers or synthesising them is going to be really challenging/ expensive - as is encapsulating/ dispersing them successfully. You'd need the skills to both make the highly specialist tools and the specific knowledge to use them - at a minimum, that's potentially several engineering disciplines, high precision toolmaking, rheology and organic synthesis. Impractical, yes, but not impossible. The various odd films that Lomo/ Innoviscoat have produced en-route to a functioning colour neg film should very clearly demonstrate how difficult it is to get to a functional and qualitatively 'good' end product even when you have engineers already skilled in the art.

 

[fdonadio]

It's not impossible (nothing of this sort is completely impossible), but it would require suitable couplers, a means of encapsulating then dispersing the couplers, a suitable set of emulsions that are sensitised correctly and maintain relative speed relationships etc after layer build-up, a CLS/ dye filter layer and interlayer scavengers, then carefully coating all those a layer at a time.

OK… “almost impossible to make at home”, then.

 

[fdonadio]

Actually, colour IR film.

Yep… the question remains: the IR spectrum should be represented by what hue in the final image?

 

[kb3lms]

Coating a multi-layer film in a diy setup would be a real challenge. Laying down a good single layer by hand requires a good bit of practice. If you know what you are doing with organic synthesis, making the couplers might be the easy part!

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Exactly

 

[dwross]

Learning to make and coat a simple emulsion is necessarily the first step. It's not hard. Second, expose and process your plates or film. You might enjoy the basic process for what it offers. A colorblind emulsion is unlike anything you can buy commercially. You might explore extreme halation rather than IR. Place a piece of alumimum foil behind your plate in the holder. Overexpose a little bit if the light is bright and a lot if it's overcast. I predict you'll love the glow! Luck and fun be yours.

 

[laingsoft]

I should have added the qualifiers - finding the couplers or synthesising them is going to be really challenging/ expensive - as is encapsulating/ dispersing them successfully. You'd need the skills to both make the highly specialist tools and the specific knowledge to use them - at a minimum, that's potentially several engineering disciplines, high precision toolmaking, rheology and organic synthesis. Impractical, yes, but not impossible. The various odd films that Lomo/ Innoviscoat have produced en-route to a functioning colour neg film should very clearly demonstrate how difficult it is to get to a functional and qualitatively 'good' end product even when you have engineers already skilled in the art.

I was referring to the 1950's level of coating tech. I'm currently working on a multilayer coating machine. I do appreciate the difficulty in making color emulsions, but for now I'm focusing on being able to coat 3 layers onto a subbed film base, slit, perf and confection before I start worrying about color.

 

[aldus_manutius]

SNIP... As far as IR film with that old-school look, I did a very quick experiment where I pre-washed Rollei's IR 400 and dried it before exposing it - it was very very "glowey", but haven't done anything further with it. The Rollei is a nice film with several moods available, but really works best with a 680 vs 720 filter, not as IR sensitive. I'm kinda "seen one white tree, seen 'em all" so I like it with a deep red filter for lith prints, can get a little surreal.

Oh, this sounds interesting... more details? Format? Washed with distilled water, or did it matter?

I started working with Rollei IR400 last year and I, too, am in the "seen one white tree, seen 'em all" school. That's actually what got me interested in the film in the first place was thinking about going in a different direction with the film.

Thanks!

 

[M Carter]

Oh, this sounds interesting... more details? Format? Washed with distilled water, or did it matter?

I started working with Rollei IR400 last year and I, too, am in the "seen one white tree, seen 'em all" school. That's actually what got me interested in the film in the first place was thinking about going in a different direction with the film.

Thanks!

I just did a quick test with some 35, cut half a roll, spooled it into the tank, 5 minutes distilled with a bit of photoflo, hung to dry in total darkness and spooled into a bulk loader cassette. Speed increased a bit, and man, it freaking glows, but just shot a few frames to see what would happen and haven't come back to it. Would be easy to do with 120 as well, just leave the tape on the backing paper to align the film.

I was being maybe a tad facetious about the white trees, I've seen excellent and unique work with full IR (and the Rollei really needs a 680NM filter vs 720, it's not as IR sensitive as the classic stuff). But a deep red filter, Rodinal and lith printing? it can be spectacular. (IR 400 with Rodinal seems to be about ISO 100 though, hard to keep the shadows, but Rodinal loves the stuff).

 

[M Carter]

I always have a few holders with Rollei IR and AH layer removed. It certainly does help give it a slight HIE look. The more exposure you give, the better! EI 1.5 to 3 with R72 filter.

I get much better results with IR400 and a 680 NM filter - just not as much IR sensitivity as the old-school films; 720 works but drop that ISO! With a 680, I shoot brackets of 6 and 12 in hot sun, 12 and 25 in more muted sun. And developer makes a big diff with the stuff, I find IR 400 and Rodinal 1+50 to be closer to 100 ISO. But man, it's a very special film, B&W emulsions have evolved to where there's not much "personality", but IR 400 has many looks depending on filtration, and jeez does it sing with Rodinal!

 

[AgX]

As a side note: the OP has not logged in again since 4 days after starting this thread...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I get much better results with IR400 and a 680 NM filter - just not as much IR sensitivity as the old-school films; 720 works but drop that ISO! With a 680, I shoot brackets of 6 and 12 in hot sun, 12 and 25 in more muted sun. And developer makes a big diff with the stuff, I find IR 400 and Rodinal 1+50 to be closer to 100 ISO. But man, it's a very special film, B&W emulsions have evolved to where there's not much "personality", but IR 400 has many looks depending on filtration, and jeez does it sing with Rodinal!

I ordered an IR filter set. There is a680 in it that I'll test out. Thanks!