major Film makers fuji, kodak, Ilford...how many rolls are they making a year?

Stephen Frizza · Jul 27, 2010

Do the major Film makers such as Kodak, Fuji and Ilford release any information about the quantity of film and how many rolls / formats of film they make in each year? like 250,000 rolls of this.... 2 million rolls of that?.... etc.... or is this a secret?

Ektagraphic · Jul 27, 2010

I have been curious about the same. As far as I know, it is probably top secret. I have never heard any solid figures here on APUG or on the websites of the big three.

railwayman3 · Jul 28, 2010

I can't see many manufacturers (of anything, for that matter) needing or wanting to release such information in any meaningful detail. (They might say "we made enough film last year to reach to the moon ten times" )

I've also seen it said that the masterolls are now made in larger batches from time-to-time, maybe once or twice a year (rather than as a continual process for every different film as when demand was much higher) , then stored for cutting and packaging as needed. In which case, without also knowing stock figures, the actual production would not necessarily represent the sales in the year.

But I agree, it would be interesting to have some idea.

Simon R Galley · Jul 28, 2010

Dear Stephen,

All these figures are highly confidential:

We coat most film types every 4 week coating cycle.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

lxdude · Jul 28, 2010

How much they sell is what really counts.

Thanks, Simon. We will be sure to keep it a secret.

Stephen Frizza · Jul 28, 2010

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Stephen,

All these figures are highly confidential:

We coat most film types every 4 week coating cycle.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Hi Simon

You are awesome. I Didn't know if it was confidential. Has it always been?

Tom Kershaw · Jul 28, 2010

Stephen,

I'm not Simon Galley but remember that PE has commented on many Kodak technologies remaining as trade secrets rather than being patented to maintain confidentiality.

Tom

ath · Jul 28, 2010

In Belgium AGFA coats many million squaremeters film per year. Somewhere in their press releases they state a number, but I can't find it now.
Most of it is for surveillance (traffic, security, military) though.

1 sqm is ca. 17 rolls of 135-36.

AgX · Jul 28, 2010

Agfa has recently stated that they manufacture more than 1 million sqare meters a day of halide film (the way I read it).

pauliej · Jul 28, 2010

Just like the car makers keep their sales secret (shush!) because they dont want anyone to know about it...

paulie

ath · Jul 28, 2010

AgX said:
Agfa has recently stated that they manufacture more than 1 million sqare meters a day of halide film (the way I read it).

Yes, my memory gets old. Do you have a link to the Agfa source? I did only find a second hand information on this.

Henning Serger · Jul 28, 2010

ath said:
Yes, my memory gets old. Do you have a link to the Agfa source? I did only find a second hand information on this.

Hello Andreas,

here is the original statement:

http://www.agfa.com/en/sp/news_events/news/MAT_20100303_PCB_Commitment_EN.jsp

The number of 1 million coated m² every day includes all their film products, PCB film, movie film, aerial film, surveillance film, micro film, graphic film, medical films.

Best regards,
Henning

AgX · Jul 28, 2010

Henning, I read it differently, halide film as indicated in post #9.

Henning Serger · Jul 28, 2010

railwayman3 said:
I've also seen it said that the masterolls are now made in larger batches from time-to-time, maybe once or twice a year (rather than as a continual process for every different film as when demand was much higher) , then stored for cutting and packaging as needed.

Not in general.
There was a very interesting report about the modernised production methods of Kodak in Rochester in the DemocratChronicle on 4th January, 2009.
Journalists visited the Rochester plant and reported about the new production in Building 38.

I quote from this article: "....And the company remains steadfast that camera film will continue to be a part of its business, though admittedly increasingly a niche product.
"You come back in 10 years, there will be a film business here," said Joel T. Proegler, general manager of film capture and a vice president in Kodak's film, photofinishing and entertainment group. It'll be smaller. Maybe there will be a bigger space between innovations."......

Kodak switched a year ago from churning out large batches of film at a time to doing almost daily runs of small batches that are tied to consumer demand. The advantage is that the company carries far less inventory on hand, said operations manager Sue Sweet."

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger · Jul 28, 2010

AgX said:
Henning, I read it differently, halide film as indicated in post #9.

You mean the 1 million m² are excluding PCB film? Then Agfas total output would be even much higher.

"Agfa is already one of the last film manufacturers serving both the Graphic art industry, the medical industry and several other film segments. Total output of Agfa film exceeds 1 million square meters per day."

...and several other film segments. I understand it that way that all film products are included in this number.

But don't let us start bean counting.....

Best regards,
Henning

Photo Engineer · Jul 28, 2010

Kodak's total output is probably far larger due to the contribution of the Motion Picture products. Its capacity is larger by far than its output, as at present they are operating one shift per day on average and only 5 days per week. If they went to their 3 shift per day, 7 day per week schedule, it would be awesome, what they could produce, but the market would not be there for that output.

And, this only includes film in Rochester. If you include paper in England and Colorado, that figure climbs quite substantially.

PE

AgX · Jul 28, 2010

Henning, they make more films than halide films, but I read their statements as refering to halide films. And PCB films are among those.

mrred · Jul 28, 2010

Wouldn't the easiest way to find out be to buy 1 stock and request the information as a stock holder? They would be compelled to give you accurate information. No?

neelin · Jul 28, 2010

mrred said:
Wouldn't the easiest way to find out be to buy 1 stock and request the information as a stock holder? They would be compelled to give you accurate information. No?

No. As a public company shareholder (owner) you have paid help (the management/executives) to increase shareholder value (further the interests of your corporation). It is not in your best interest to have trade secrets like this disclosed. As a public shareholder the best you could ever do would probably be, sales & profit by corporate division from the financial statements.

Robert

Worker 11811 · Jul 28, 2010

Most major movies are still produced on 35mm film. Only around 15% of all movie theaters worldwide have converted to digital. In some areas that is higher or lower but, on average, Hollywood is still 80% or 90% film based.

There are an average of 2 or 3 movies produced by Hollywood per week. (Let's say 2 per week.)

An average of 1,500 to 2,000 35mm release prints are struck for each movie. (Let's say 1,7000 for ease of calculation.)

Your average movie is 120 minutes long.

There are 90 feet of film for every minute of movie.

90 * 120 * 1700 * 2 = 36,720,000 feet of film produced just to meet Hollywood's weekly demand for theater release prints. That's a little over 6, 900 miles of film per week. 27,600 miles of film per month.

The earth is 24,900 miles in circumference at the equator. Therefore, every month Hollywood needs enough film to encircle the world just to meet its demand for movies!

This does not include Foriegn, European and independent movies. This does not include the Bollywood movies produced in India. This does not include film used in the production of movies. (e.g. camera film, duplication and lab film.) This does not include film that ends up on the cutting room floors.

I don't know exactly how much film is produced every year to satisfy our demand for movies but it sure is a lot!

I don't see film going away any time soon.

Stephen Frizza · Jul 28, 2010

Worker 11811 said:
Most major movies are still produced on 35mm film. Only around 15% of all movie theaters worldwide have converted to digital. In some areas that is higher or lower but, on average, Hollywood is still 80% or 90% film based.

There are an average of 2 or 3 movies produced by Hollywood per week. (Let's say 2 per week.)

An average of 1,500 to 2,000 35mm release prints are struck for each movie. (Let's say 1,7000 for ease of calculation.)

Your average movie is 120 minutes long.

There are 90 feet of film for every minute of movie.

90 * 120 * 1700 * 2 = 36,720,000 feet of film produced just to meet Hollywood's weekly demand for theater release prints. That's a little over 6, 900 miles of film per week. 27,600 miles of film per month.

The earth is 24,900 miles in circumference at the equator. Therefore, every month Hollywood needs enough film to encircle the world just to meet its demand for movies!

This does not include Foriegn, European and independent movies. This does not include the Bollywood movies produced in India. This does not include film used in the production of movies. (e.g. camera film, duplication and lab film.) This does not include film that ends up on the cutting room floors.

I don't know exactly how much film is produced every year to satisfy our demand for movies but it sure is a lot!

I don't see film going away any time soon.

And there are people who say film processing is a niche market LOL.

lxdude · Jul 29, 2010

Stephen Frizza said:
And there are people who say film processing is a niche market LOL.

In my experience, quality processing and quality printing have always been a niche market.

Stephen Frizza · Jul 29, 2010

ah now that I have to agree on! I think one awesome thing about the digital revolution is that now with so many photographers having gone to digital there is no excuse for a lab to not give quality processing and printing. Labs should be able to focus on their clients more intimately and give a far higher level of care than when being a sausage factory churning out thousands of rolls of film and prints a day.

cmo · Jul 29, 2010

Worker 11811 said:
The earth is 24,900 miles in circumference at the equator. Therefore, every month Hollywood needs enough film to encircle the world just to meet its demand for movies!

This does not include Foriegn, European and independent movies. This does not include the Bollywood movies produced in India.

As long as India loves movies we don't have to be afraid... India is by far the biggest movie producer in the world:

- India produced a total of 2961 films in 2009, that means 57 movies per week. And not all of them are thy typical sing-and-dance-a-lots about unfulfilled love.

- There are more than 13,000 cinemas in India, and they all need film copies.

- Many movies are longer than 90 minutes (blockbuster example: Ghajini, 180 minutes, and it's an amazing movie)

- Hollywood films sold just 2.6 billion tickets worldwide, Indian studios entertained 3.6 billion people.

- 30 film production companies are listed in the National Stock Exchange of India.

So, I guess that Kodak and Fuji will survive a few years more (Agfa has some motion picture film, too, I heard).

Photo Engineer · Jul 29, 2010

As Bollywood production expands, it uses more and more Fuji film stock even though Fuji stock represents a minor fraction of cinema films produced. It nevertheless decreases Kodak production and increases Fuji production.

IDK what that does to the overall balance.

PE

major Film makers fuji, kodak, Ilford...how many rolls are they making a year?

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