Mad Nikon F4 prices

This thread caused me to check the LCDs on my two F3/T's and two F4s's --- all LCDs remain good.

My understanding is that heat can cause LCD-bleed over time (despite these being Pro-level cameras). So, 99% of the time I've kept these cameras at under 80F and this is probably why the LCDs are still good ~30years later.

Huss said:

I have an F3P and Ltd but where the F4 is much better is the shutter - 1/8000 and 1/250 (I think) sync - and the much better exposure read out. Also I wonder why so many complain about the AF in the F4. It focuses way quicker and more accurately than my manual focus efforts w my F3 (or any other mf camera).

Click to expand...

Honestly the AF on the F4 is totally fine for most uses- however, not for sports/action. Consider two of the period pro telephotos- the 300/2.8 af and the 80-200/2.8 af, both are abysmally slow on the F4, especially in any situation where motion is unpredictable (try hockey with the 80-200- better to use manual focus!). Compared to the Canon Eos 1 or 1n, with Canon's internal motor lenses of the early 90s, the performance of the F4 is inexcusably bad, and many switched to Canon for that reason. The release of the F5 with it's five focus points, and the early AFS lenses really improved things in this regard.

It’s hard *not* to compare the F4 with its predecessor and with the last generations of Nikon camera bodies (F5, F100, F6, etc).

The cameras which came after — especially the F5 and F100 - did everything the F4 did but much better and even allow access to vibration reduction lenses. The trade-off is incompatibility with the pre-Ai lenses and the F3a3 lenses. To be honest I think the trade-off is worth it. Chances are you if you are looking at an autofocus Nikon then you are probably looking to shoot newer lenses and not as worried about shooting older lenses or have an earlier body for those.

So if someone looking for a latter-day Nikon body settles on the F4, it will be for specific, personal reasons. Which is perfectly fine of course.

The F4 introduced some fantastic technology to the Nikon line, and the F5 / F100 generation improved those technologies significantly without giving up realistic backwards compatibility.

My opinion, of course. A couple months ago I was looking to pick up an F4, but rather quickly decided an F100 was a better option considering I also have manual Nikons like the FM3a to shoot pre-Ai lenses.

The F4 was introduced in 1988. The F5 and F100 were introduced 8 and 11 years later, respectively, and thus benefit from significant technological developments over that time period.

The F4 truly sits between the mostly-mechanical, external-control Nikon cameras and the microprocessor-driven, wheel, button, and menu cameras of the digital Era.

Nikon pro camera timeline:

F 15 years 1959-1974, next model 12 years
F2 9 years 1971-1980, next model 9 years
F3 21 years 1980-2001, next model 8 years
F4 9 years 1988-1997, next model 8 years
F5 8 years 1996-2004, next model 8 years
F6 in prod. 2004

Already having the F, F2, F3, and F4, I decided that the F5 and F6 didn't offer me anything that I really needed or wanted. My latest-built Nikon film camera is the FM3a.

I picked up an F4 cheap as a stop-gap after killing an F3 in the fall. F3 prices were really high, F4 prices really low, I was curious....

The F4 definitely doesn't have the hipster, film-camera look of an F3 or FM/FE series camera. It's bulkier, chunky in a strangely-streamlined 80's way. My girlfriend remarked straight away that my previous film camera was cooler. I wasn't too put off by the size, my F3 usually goes with the drive mounted, but I wasn't sure I'd keep it.
So, I took it out and started shooting. It's probably the best-handling SHOOTER I've ever had. Sure, the F3 is close (as are, IMHO, the single-digit D-series and the D700/800 line, if I'm allowed to say so here), but the viewfinder is big and bright, the mirror is VERY well damped (the F3 feels much harsher and clunkier after spending time on an F4), you gain a useful flash synch, still have access to a full lineup of good screens....

Basically, if all you're doing is shooting it, the F4 is a way better choice. That said, for a travel camera or EDC an F3 with a few small primes is noticeably lighter. So if I'm going out expressly to shoot and it's in a situation where being inconspicuous isn't necessary I'll pack the F4. I just think that isn't what most people are doing with 35mm cameras these days, a lot of them are either posing (carrying a camera as a fashion accessory), doing street photography, or documenting their lives and travels. Those aren't situations where a massive hunk of gear is the best choice.

For me it's been great, I recently did some wildlife work using it and found the focus confirmation very helpful. The matrix metering also helps with nailing the exposure on slides. I am also planning to bag it along with my non-film bodies for some upcoming work, in case the opportunity to bag a few more artistic/personal work photos comes up.

At the end of the day, though, what another forum member said about the 180 2.8 comes to mind, the gist of their comment - "Only a nikon shooter could love it. It's big and heavy and a good piece of glass".
Same applies to the F4. You have to like an overbuilt piece of gear that'll break your back in your bag but get out of the way and JUST WORK when it's in hand. It is also a bit niche, being a very primitive AF camera (though far from the worst I've used) and a very advanced, very large, MF camera. To each their own, but I hope we can keep shooting these under the radar.

The F4 is definitely a Transformers camera, by its looks. Definitely a Pro camera.

My favorite is the F100; super zippy and sturdy. I own the F6 and can’t bond with it: it’s so much damped that I lose any shooting feeling. Like rallying with a Rolls royce, I can imagine the smooth’n’comfy ride.

Another bad arse camera à la F4 is the Minolta 9000. A jewel of industrial design, in my opinion.

NB23 said:

The F4 is definitely a Transformers camera, by its looks. Definitely a Pro camera.

My favorite is the F100; super zippy and sturdy. I own the F6 and can’t bond with it: it’s so much damped that I lose any shooting feeling. Like rallying with a Rolls royce, I can imagine the smooth’n’comfy ride.

Another bad arse camera à la F4 is the Minolta 9000. A jewel of industrial design, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

Yeah I've never bonded w my F6. Battery life is too short, if you pull the batteries for storage (as you should) it forgets the settings you programmed after about 30 days (I think). There is a separate battery buried in the camera somewhere for the internal clock. The Matrix metering is no where near as clever as claimed so I use center or spot.
Looks and feels like a DSLR but w really old super crappy menus. An F7 with the dials of the F4, ditch or seriously update the menus and better AF would be welcome.

On a side note....... I have 2x Canon AT-1. They are both in good cosmetic condition, and both had a CLA 2-3 years ago.
I thought, maybe 70 bux with shipping included, no lens.
I MIGHT get that here, because of the CLA, but ...after looking at Ebay...i am thinking 40-50 is more like it, for somebody that is looking for one (that works and meters) and already has the FD Glass.
With just a few exceptions, there simply are not enough people like us, for these cameras to maintain their value for sale.
I know the AT-1 was never one of Canons big sellers. But for me, it was the only A-Series i held onto.
I realized i preferred Minolta if i needed something like an AE-1 Program.

I'd been wanting to own F4 when I was in college. For me it is the most beautifully designed SLR. Practicality comes to mind I always thought it uses same AF module as F801 series which is slow and the camera is as heavy as Walmart patrons. I ended up with N90S and never regretted. AF is fast, my understanding is that F5' AF is derived from N90. N90 also handles nicely with vertical grip and will allow long exposure and interval timer with MF-26 back. Oh and of course focus-freeze.

MFstooges said:

I'd been wanting to own F4 when I was in college. For me it is the most beautifully designed SLR. Practicality comes to mind I always thought it uses same AF module as F801 series which is slow and the camera is as heavy as Walmart patrons. I ended up with N90S and never regretted. AF is fast, my understanding is that F5' AF is derived from N90. N90 also handles nicely with vertical grip and will allow long exposure and interval timer with MF-26 back. Oh and of course focus-freeze.

Click to expand...

For the record, I stopped shopping at Walmart and didn't lose any weight. I sure do love my N90S, though!

Theo Sulphate said:

My understanding is that heat can cause LCD-bleed over time (despite these being Pro-level cameras). So, 99% of the time I've kept these cameras at under 80F and this is probably why the LCDs are still good ~30years later.

Click to expand...

Nikon serviceman told me that bleed in F4 is result of preasure, ie physical stress on displays.

CMoore said:

I know the AT-1 was never one of Canons big sellers. But for me, it was the only A-Series i held onto.

Click to expand...

I get you. If you're not a full auto type, Canon's A and T-series bodies made the simple exposure stuff more complicated. The F-1 is a lovely camera but expensive and increasingly hard to find in great condition, which leaves the AT-1 and FT as Canon's FD mount manual stalwarts. I like the AT-1's big shutter speed dial in the same position as the Leica M5, and it's a light-ish camera with a clear screen. It has no pretences to current ideas of desirability, hence the low price.

Old thread question: I see a fair number of Nikon F4's that seem to be for sale with "LCD bleed". Is this fixable today (2020) or are we past that point?

blockend said:

I get you. If you're not a full auto type, Canon's A and T-series bodies made the simple exposure stuff more complicated. The F-1 is a lovely camera but expensive and increasingly hard to find in great condition, which leaves the AT-1 and FT as Canon's FD mount manual stalwarts. I like the AT-1's big shutter speed dial in the same position as the Leica M5, and it's a light-ish camera with a clear screen. It has no pretences to current ideas of desirability, hence the low price.

Click to expand...

This reminds, i STILL have too many 35mm bodies.
I need to sell the 2x AT-1 that i have. I suppose i need to make a post in the classifieds.

I think at this point the specific repair parts availability is the issue. I have 4-6 F4's in various states of operation and the ones with LCD bleed are still mostly useful. Those screen painted knobs do come in handy, and when you have a few you can swap out the modular parts and make a functioning body. I've had more issues with the aperture lever not fully completing its travel distance and creating an inconsistent exposure error potential; I've not done the complete repair as can be found on this fine forum but choose to keep the good ones I have shooting. I am always amazed at the F4 and still so undervalued but I concede that they can have some bugs. Some enterprising young person should just specialize in the F4 repair like Sover Wong and the F2.

Theo Sulphate said:

Ken Rockwell has called the F4 the "Rosetta Stone" of compatibility for Nikon lenses. Indeed. Whereas some Nikon's are too old and some are too new, the F4 is positioned where it does work on everything from pre-AI through G, with some restrictions.

Click to expand...

Yes, however buying a G lens is unethical.

I declare the F2 as having the best lens compatibility: It can do full-aperture metering with both pre-AI and AI/E/AF lenses by fitting the appropriate viewfinder. Which is what I do.

JWMster said:

Old thread question: I see a fair number of Nikon F4's that seem to be for sale with "LCD bleed". Is this fixable today (2020) or are we past that point?

Click to expand...

I don’t know if the LCDs are available as repair parts (though I doubt it) but some of the LCDs in the viewfinder are physically in the body, but the other half are physically in the viewfinder. If you have bleed on the VF LCDs, you could source a viewfinder without the bleed, and replace it whole.

swchris said:

Now, if I could find a reasonably priced 250-exposures back for my F4, everything would be fine. The prices on Ebay are inflationary...

Click to expand...

I love this. I had one for a F2, I always longed for one for a F5. I'm no expert but isn't the F4 bulk film back the only auto focus SLR with a big back.

Wouldn't it be fun to put a long roll like that in a minilab and watch the technician when that kept coming and coming

I've got a couple enormous Nikor reels and a Hewes 35mm reel.

I find it interesting how the perceived value of a particular model of camera is affected by factors far beyond its usability or proneness to problems. Some combination of aesthetics, word of mouth, and general reputation among the cognoscenti has boosted certain models and depressed others. You can see the effect in all manner of vintage brands and lines.

Personally, if I need things like matrix metering, autofocus, etc. I'll turn to my digital gear. If I'm shooting film, I'm going manual and mechanical, with an emphasis on the models I find most aesthetically and sensually pleasing in use.

I guess that's why I've never felt the need to go beyond my FTN. There are no features in even the F2 that I feel the need for and the later the model, the less pleasing it is to the hand and the eye. Just my perspective of course, but if I'm shooting film, I'll stick with my M&M models.

Andy

JWMster said:

Old thread question: I see a fair number of Nikon F4's that seem to be for sale with "LCD bleed". Is this fixable today (2020) or are we past that point?

Click to expand...

I don't they can be repaired, just buy one that does not have it.

I've never considered a $value for my F4, I just find it a pleasure to use.

All LCD indicators are clear ( to my old eyes), but I did have to use a finer white marker for the film speed dial.

With a choice between my preferred FM2n, I like the F4 for autofocus + manual exposure + access to pre-AI lenses, while my FM2n is the best pocket camera for relaxed snaps almost anywhere.

xtolsniffer said:

I've just had a little peek at current prices for Nikon F4's - I don't need one, I have one and it's great, but for such an amazing camera, compared with the price of an F3 (which is also great), they are just so cheap.

Click to expand...

It's now about a year since you have started this thread. The F4 is meanwhile a little bit more expensive than last summer, but still extremely cheap for what it offers. It's still a real bargain and one of the "hidden pearls" of the used market.
One of the reasons is the simple fact that quite a lot of them were made: Afaik almost 600.000 units (F5: about 230.000). Therefore supply is relatively big, which keeps the prices down.
There are reports in the literature (Stafford, Hillebrand&Hauschild) that Nikon has had implemented about 400 modifications during its production life. And probably all of the modifications had been implemented in cameras with serial numbers of 2450001 and higher. Mine has a higher number and is working fine, no problems so far. But it is also seldom used, my F5 and especially my two F6 get much much more use.

Best regards,
Henning