M42(-compatible) camera with spot metering?

[Lucius]

I'm still on the quest for a perfect m42 body, or rather, having realised there is no such thing as a perfect all-around m42 camera, I'm looking into the best options for specific uses. For shooting slide film, an accurate and reliable spot (or rather partial) meter seems to be a top priority. Which native m42 options are there? First, there's the Ricoh TLS401: I don't have one and don't know how good its meter is, but it weighs a ton and is relatively rare and expensive. Second, there are the Mamiyas (DTL, DSX): I got a DSX almost for free, but haven't tried it so far (its meter behaves weirdly), and anyway it's heavier than I like. Finally, there's the Cosina CSR / Vivitar XC-2 / Porst Compact SP: I have a Cosina branded one, and this would be the perfect m42 body (it's small and has an excellent viewfinder), but it has corroded contacts (it works for a while after being tampered with, but then dies again), and anyway its electronically controlled shutter is known to be unreliable, and I've also read its meter isn't that accurate. Am I missing anything out? So far, my best option seems to be either having the CSR repaired or getting another one, but they are fairly rare and, as mentioned, apparently unreliable. I'd love to hear though if you have a positive experience with this model.

This seems to exhaust native m42 options, but if I can get a good spot meter, I'm willing to consider losing the auto-aperture function with m42 lenses. What do we have here? I lucked out on a Canon T70 (actually two of them) in a job lot, and it's great in some ways (it's got a huge viewfinder and is fairly light, though not small), but it's made of plastic and can only be used in aperture priority mode with m42 lenses (this isn't a bad thing per se, but I seem to prefer manual mode). I've read good things about Contax S2 and Olympus OM-3/4, but both cost rather a lot more than I'm prepared to pay (not sure actually if m42 lenses can be adapted on OM bodies?). There's a Miranda model with spot metering, but it's quite heavy too (i.e. like a Mamiya DSX). That's it, more or less, as far as I could figure out, but I'd love to be proven wrong!

So, my requirements are: (1) compatible with m42 lenses (with infinity); (2) compact (no bigger than a Spotmatic); (3) reliable (esp. as concerns the meter); (4) preferably metal and mechanical; (5) cheap. I'll be hugely grateful for any recommendations!

 

[xkaes]

Someone really should put together a list of native M42 cameras -- with feature details, of course. There are a TON of them.

As to M42 lenses on NON-M42 cameras? That camera list would be even longer -- even up to today's digital cameras.

There have to be several NON.M42 cameras that can be adapted -- that are compact, reliable, and cheap. With SPOT metering -- probably. I thick every Minolta, Pentax K, Nikon, Yashica, Contax (... the list goes on) ... would work.

The main problem is metering. Can be done wide-open, but better if stopped down -- which is a problem for some cameras.

 

[BrianShaw]

If you can relieve the requirement for spot metering, there are cameras such as Ricoh Singlex TLS that meet all other requirements. Two typical issues to broach (neither difficult): deteriorated foam light seals and battery conversion. I inherited one several years ago in dredfully diry condition, mostly because of light seal foam gunk all over hte shutter. It cleaned up quite well and now is a favorite when I feel the desire to use for a "real vintage" SLR

 

[Lucius]

Someone really should put together a list of native M42 cameras -- with feature details, of course. There are a TON of them.

As to M42 lenses on NON-M42 cameras? That camera list would be even longer -- even up to today's digital cameras.

There have to be several NON.M42 cameras that can be adapted -- that are compact, reliable, and cheap. With SPOT metering -- probably. I thick every Minolta, Pentax K, Nikon, Yashica, Contax (... the list goes on) ... would work.

The main problem is metering. Can be done wide-open, but better if stopped down -- which is a problem for some cameras.

Thanks! A comprehensive list would indeed be great -- but who would be able to undertake such a task, and more importantly, how reliable would be the data? (That is, unless the compiler would have first-hand experience with every single camera in the list.)

I guess there are viable options among later plastic and electronic cameras (like Canon T70), but among 'classic' (metal & mechanical) bodies there doesn't seem to be a lot of options with a spot meter: Pentax K doesn't have one, Nikon is m42-incompatible, Minolta SRT is heavy, and Contax S2 is expensive...

 

[Lucius]

If you can relieve the requirement for spot metering, there are cameras such as Ricoh Singlex TLS that meet all other requirements. Two typical issues to broach (neither difficult): deteriorated foam light seals and battery conversion. I inherited one several years ago in dredfully diry condition, mostly because of light seal foam gunk all over hte shutter. It cleaned up quite well and now is a favorite when I feel the desire to use for a "real vintage" SLR

Thanks! Singlex TLS is too heavy for my liking (I don't have one, but I think it's some 100 grams heavier than a Spotmatic). And the spot meter is the point -- I do have a few bodies with an averaging meter that I like, but for slides I'd really prefer a spot meter.

 

[xkaes]

I have nothing against the Ricoh Singlex TLS, but isn't it as big and heavy as my Minolta SRT cameras?

Later on, Minolta, Pentax and others, made smaller & lighter cameras that can accept M42 lenses -- and have auto-exposure, auto-winders, etc -- and are incredibly inexpensive nowadays. Most of these small, light SLRs moved to electronic shutters (makes auto-exposure easier) but there probably are some with mechanical shutters -- probably without auto-exposure though.

Phenix made several 35mm SLR cameras with mechanical, metal, vertical shutters -- with speeds up to 1/2000 -- with a Minolta mount, so M42 convertible, but no spot-metering.

http://www.subclub.org/minchin/phenix.htm

 

[BrianShaw]

Thanks! Singlex TLS is too heavy for my liking (I don't have one, but I think it's some 100 grams heavier than a Spotmatic). And the spot meter is the point -- I do have a few bodies with an averaging meter that I like, but for slides I'd really prefer a spot meter.

Understood. I haven't held a Spotmatic in years so the Ricoh very well could be heavier. I consider it my "lightweight" camera since my other prinicipal 35mm camera is a Nikon F3 with MD-4.

For slides I always used a weighted meter and rarely was dissatisfied. But just a clarification... do you really mean "spotmeter" as opposed to "center-weighted"? If I'm not mistaken, even the Spotmatic didn't have a true spot meter; Spotmatic was center-weighted.

 

[Helge]

I don’t see the eminent need for spot-ish metering. It’s of pretty limited use, and is full of gotchas if you haven’t fully wrapped your head around it.
Some of the Mamiyas has it. But they are not very good cameras.

Stop-down and manual metering is kind of a requirement for M42 and a defining trait of the “system”. All the lenses and cameras are centered around those “limitations”.
If you want automation, get a Fuji, Ricoh or Chinon and their native lenses that support AE.

I’d get the most modern and well made body I can find with native M42 mount. And that is most likely a Fujica.
Adapters are always problematic in a number of ways. Flance distance is not accurate. stop-down is absent or not ergonomic. They come loose, cross threaded (because of subpar metal or lost. Etc.

 

[Lucius]

I have nothing against the Ricoh Singlex TLS, but isn't it as big and heavy as my Minolta SRT cameras?

Later on, Minolta, Pentax and others, made smaller & lighter cameras that can accept M42 lenses -- and have auto-exposure, auto-winders, etc -- and are incredible inexpensive nowadays.

Yes, I think Minolta SRT is about as heavy as Ricoh Singlex TLS / TLS401 -- or Mamiya DSX for that matter. The later plastic and electronic models can indeed be lighter and more accurate, but they tend to be overcluttered -- not that this makes them unusable (I rather like Canon T70, for what it is), I just wonder if it's possible to have everything in one place: simple, compact, reliable and cheap.

 

[xkaes]

I use M42 adapters for various lenses on my old Minoltas and new Sonys without any problem. I usually meter wide open and adjust, or use a hand-held meter, or aperture-priority exposure mode (for cameras that have that).

 

[Ian Grant]

Perfect M42 body nothing better than a Spotmatic F.

Ian

 

[xkaes]

Yes, I think Minolta SRT is about as heavy as Ricoh Singlex TLS / TLS401 -- or Mamiya DSX for that matter. The later plastic and electronic models can indeed be lighter and more accurate, but they tend to be overcluttered -- not that this makes them unusable (I rather like Canon T70, for what it is), I just wonder if it's possible to have everything in one place: simple, compact, reliable and cheap.

There are plenty of adaptable NON-M42 SLRs that are clutter free -- and have fewer features, like the Pentax K1000 & the Minolta SRT100/200. The Pentax K1000 goes for ridiculous prices, but you can find an SRT100/200 for under $20. The variants are just as reliable & sell for even less! But, yes, they are large and heavy.

http://www.subclub.org/minman/srt100.htm

 

[Lucius]

I don’t see the eminent need for spot-ish metering. It’s of pretty limited use, and is full of gotchas if you haven’t fully wrapped your head around it.
Some of the Mamiyas has it. But they are not very good cameras.

Stop-down and manual metering is kind of a requirement for M42 and a defining trait of the “system”. All the lenses and cameras are centered around those “limitations”.
If you want automation, get a Fuji, Ricoh or Chinon and their native lenses that support AE.

I’d get the most modern and well made body I can find with native M42 mount. And that is most likely a Fuji.
Adapters are always problematic in a number of ways. Flance distance is not accurate. drop-down is absent or not ergonomic. They come loose, cross threaded (because of subpar metal or lost. Etc.

Yes, for an 'all-around' m42, I agree that Fujicas ST may be the best candidates (with the ST605 being perhaps the most versatile, despite its limited shutter speeds), but I'm specifically looking for a camera to shoot slides with, and here I'm willing to sacrifice auto-aperture function for a spot meter. I was pleasantly surprised that I could see quite well through the Canon T70's viewfinder even with the lens stopped down to 5.6, I just want to know if there more 'classical' alternatives to it.

 

[Lucius]

Perfect M42 body nothing better than a Spotmatic F.

Ian

I like my SP F, but it's a hassle to use it with non-dedicated lenses, and it doesn't have a spot meter -- despite the name!

 

[Kino]

I don't think the camera you desire exists.

 

[Lucius]

There are plenty of adaptable NON-M42 SLRs that are clutter free -- and have fewer features, like the Pentax K1000 & the Minolta SRT100/200. The Pentax K1000 goes for ridiculous prices, but you can find an SRT100/200 for under $20. The variants are just as reliable & sell for even less! But, yes, they are large and heavy.

http://www.subclub.org/minman/srt100.htm

The SRT does seem nice, but if weight weren't an issue, I'd probably settle down on the Mamiya DSX -- I actually happen to like the implementation of its stop-down metering, and it even supports open-aperture metering with SX lenses.

 

[Lucius]

I don't think the camera you desire exists.

That's the impression I'm getting, but I'd like to be wrong!

I mean, Contax S2 does seem to tick all the boxes -- except price.

 

[dynachrome]

Five cameras come to mind and I have all of them. There are the Mamiya 1000DTL and 500DTL, the Mamiya DSX1000 and DSX500. The last one is the Mamiya Auto XTL (and later Auto X1000). The Auto XTL accepts a P adapter (Praktica/Pentax). The adapter provides stop-down metering and correct infinity focus with M42 lenses and has a switch for Averaging or Spot. There are Sears versions of some of the SX cameras but the one I just looked at does not have spot metering.

 

[xkaes]

Those Mamiyas may meet the criteria -- except for size/weight.

And since Lucius has added a bright viewfinder to the long criteria, I'll throw in the Minolta XD-11. ONE of its claim to fame was its bright viewfinder -- in a very small package. That's still a pricey camera, but it's less expensive brothers are relatively cheap. No spot metering.

http://www.subclub.org/minman/xd5.htm

 

[Helge]

Yes, for an 'all-around' m42, I agree that Fujicas ST may be the best candidates (with the ST605 being perhaps the most versatile, despite its limited shutter speeds), but I'm specifically looking for a camera to shoot slides with, and here I'm willing to sacrifice auto-aperture function for a spot meter. I was pleasantly surprised that I could see quite well through the Canon T70's viewfinder even with the lens stopped down to 5.6, I just want to know if there more 'classical' alternatives to it.

The T70 screen is exceptional, only equaled/bettered by the late Minolta acute matte.
You won’t find many other cameras that match them.

The best Fujica is the AZ. Newest and most rugged. No fancy unnecessary features.
The meter is with two blue silicon cells.
Doesn’t get much better for a M42 camera.

Shooting slide is not that hard or critical. In camera spot metering will never be as precise as an external spot meter, or the ultimate precision of the not spot mode in camera meter.
The T70 mode is a very pointy center weighted pattern for a reason.
Meter for the shade, the subject and the sky and get a general idea of what your priorities are in the scene.
Taking your time is much more important for good metering than a super fancy, ultra precise meter.

 

[Lucius]

Five cameras come to mind and I have all of them. There are the Mamiya 1000DTL and 500DTL, the Mamiya DSX1000 and DSX500. The last one is the Mamiya Auto XTL (and later Auto X1000). The Auto XTL accepts a P adapter (Praktica/Pentax). The adapter provides stop-down metering and correct infinity focus with M42 lenses and has a switch for Averaging or Spot. There are Sears versions of some of the SX cameras but the one I just looked at does not have spot metering.

I do have a DSX, but, besides its weight (and my impression is the XTL is no lighter), I'm not that impressed with its viewfinder. But I'm going to trying out, despite the jumpy meter on my exemplar.

 

[Lucius]

No spot metering.

That's a deal breaker for me! If I'm not set on a spot meter, there are few native m42 bodies I'm reasonably happy with.

 

[Paul Howell]

Having used Spotmatics for the past 6 decades, well almost, 1966, when I shot color including slides I used an incident meter, I continued to use an incident meter with Konica T3, Nikon F and F2. The F3 metering was rather good and worked for color negative film, for slide film I continued use an incident meter. Now that I used Minolta A mount, the matrix metering is so good I no longer use a hand held meter. Reminds me to dig out my Spot, time for a trip down memory lane.

 

[Lucius]

The T70 screen is exceptional, only equaled/bettered by the late Minolta acute matte.
You won’t find many other cameras that match them.

Well, one more reason to be happy with the T70!

The best Fujica is the AZ. Newest and most rugged. No fancy unnecessary features.
The meter is with two blue silicon cells.
Doesn’t get much better for a M42 camera.

That's if you prefer auto-exposure (which is definitely good for winter!). The AZ's downside for me is that it doesn't work well with standard m42 lenses: you need both to stop the lens down and depress the shutter button to take a metering (that's where the ST605 will beat it); but it could work with preset lenses I guess.

Shooting slide is not that hard or critical. In camera spot metering will never be as precise as an external spot meter, or the ultimate precision of the not spot mode in camera meter.
The T70 mode is a very pointy center weighted pattern for a reason.
Meter for the shade, the subject and the sky and get a general idea of what your priorities are in the scene.
Taking your time is much more important for good metering than a super fancy, ultra precise meter.

It's of course true that thinking is more important than just metering, but it does help when you know what you are metering. At least I rather liked the experience with the T70 and the CSR, though I'm still waiting for the results.

 

[Lucius]

Having used Spotmatics for the past 6 decades, well almost, 1966, when I shot color including slides I used an incident meter, I continued to use an incident meter with Konica T3, Nikon F and F2. The F3 metering was rather good and worked for color negative film, for slide film I continued use an incident meter. Now that I used Minolta A mount, the matrix metering is so good I no longer use a hand held meter. Reminds me to dig out my Spot, time for a trip down memory lane.

A proper external meter might be the way to go, but I wonder if I would bother to use it :-/