M2 Vs IIIF...?

[NorwayPhoto]

Hello all.

I am new here, from Norway.
So far I have been using SLR cameras, now using a LeicaFlex Sl, love it. But, I like to get a rangefinder camera.
A Leica i s the dream. For my budget, a M2 and/or a IIIF 1/1000 is what I am looking at....Any tips what to go for?
All help/tip is welcome.

Wish you all a good weekend.

 

[Besk]

For the same price go for the M2. More versatile. As to the IIIF get the later red dial version. You can do the research on the red dial vs black dial differences. I am not an expert on these cameras but have owned both at one time or another.
Condition is very important in all cases.

 

[gzinsel]

I think most people think, that the "feel" of the Barnacks are better, However most people think that any of the M's are better machines: for lenses, for focusing, etc. . . Considering most LTM lenses have coating issues on the lens, where as the M's typically do not. On a M, you can always use the LTM lens, with adapter. Typically newer cameras statistically break down less, BUT Barnacks where made like a tank. Over all neither is bad. Both have their "talking points". hours and hours of debate after debate has not settled which is better. because as always. it comes down to personal preference. My suggestion is try finding a barnack to borrow, see how you like it.

 

[NorwayPhoto]

Thank you for the reply and information.

 

[snapguy]

M2r

I used both an M2r and a IIIf professionally and believe the M cameras are Rolls Royces and the III series are Toyotas. With the IIIf you have to squint through one window to focus and one to frame your photo whereas with the M series it utilizes one big, wonderful window. The M series bayonet mount is a plus, as well.

 

[ruby.monkey]

The M2 has a far more user-friendly viewfinder/rangefinder and control set-up than the IIIf and is (slightly) easier to load.

 

[TheToadMen]

Welcome to APUG!!

Go for the M2.

 

[TheTrailTog]

I have owned both and they are both excellent cameras. IMO, if you are looking for the ultimate pocketable camera, I would recommend the IIIf with an Elmar. Otherwise, go with the M2 as it is more user friendly and has a better viewfinder. Just make sure you buy from a reputable source as repair costs can add up quite quickly!

 

[frank]

Apples and oranges. Different strengths and weaknesses. Get both!

 

[250swb]

You've got a far bigger range of lenses available for the M2 (you can use an LTM adapter with the M2, but you can't use an M adapter with the Barnack).

I have both, the IIIF is a pain to load quickly even if everything is done by the book, the M2 is pretty quick. The M2 viewfinder, focus patch, and frame lines are far superior. For a similar budget I'm sure an M4-P would fit the bill and be vastly more versatile and built like a tank. Keep in mind the cost of a CLA if you find the camera needs it, so it's better to buy from a dealer who offers a warranty or at least your money back. In no way shape or form would I buy a IIIF if I didn't first have the luxury of the M option, it is a great camera, small, smooth, but ultimately Leica did replace it for a reason.

Steve

 

[Bill Burk]

The M2 is a good example of a rangefinder camera that has all the right features.

How can you go wrong with a camera that offers combined Rangefinder/Viewfinder with automatically-selected 35/50/90 parallax corrected framelines.

And a single stroke winding/shutter cocking lever (don't laugh at this feature, many other rangefinders of the same era do not make it easy to prepare for the next shot in one action, Retina/Contax/Ikonta/Bessa).

 

[frank]

The biggest and perhaps only functional advantage that a screw mount Leica has over an M2 is its smaller size. With a collapsible lens, they are a great jacket pocket camera.

 

[Jerevan]

The M2 may be versatile and all ... but my own heart is always with the IIIf.

Mind you, it is a slower pace, things take a while ... anticipate, and enjoy the ride. Depends on what suits you.

 

[darkosaric]

Welcome to APUG .

As Frank told you - get both!

First go for M2, and then when the time comes - get the Barnack as well. I have M3 and M6, and seriously thinking to get the Barnack with Elmar 5cm f3.5 - that is the best pocket-able camera in the world .

 

[mnemosyne]

I agree, the only field in which the IIIf surpasses the M2 is pocketability/weight. Well, and maybe cuteness factor ... The M2 is superior or even vastly superior in all other aspects. If you are new to the concept of rangefinder cameras and have been using SLRs exclusively I would recommend to start your rangefinder experience with a camera that makes the transition as smooth and enjoyable as possible, and that would be the M2. I like my IIIf very much, but will normally only use it when compactness and low weight are of overriding importance.

 

[Jerevan]

The built-in diopter and the 1.5x rangefinder is also things worth considering when thinking of the IIIf. The film loading "issue" is blown out of proportion by people, just trim the leader.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I have and use both. The M2 for the nicer, brighter and bigger finder within which you can both frame and focus. The IIIf because....well just handle and shoot with one and you'll see.

 

[frank]

Even with a 50mm lens, an external finder is nice.

 

[Pioneer]

If it is all about convenience then by all means get the M2. Of course if it was all about convenience we would all be shooting the latest whiz bang digital do-all camera.

I love my M cameras but there is just something special about the Barnack. Buy the Barnack IIIF and shoot it for 6 months to a year. If nothing else you will never regret or forget the experience. Don't worry about the camera's capability, it was plenty capable to allow many, many photographers to get some terrific, spontaneous photographs.

Eisenstadt's photo of the sailor kissing the nurse in New York is to me the ultimate street shot. Taken with a Leica Barnack LTM. I would say the old Leica's are plenty capable for whatever you or I would need. Of course, for those who need the camera to tell them how to take a photograph, then maybe not.

 

[Sirius Glass]

NorwayPhoto welcome to APUG

 

[NorwayPhoto]

Thank you all for the replys, pro and cons.

Size, yes, I like a compact camera now, for having in my pocket/backpack, I do some hikking and like to have a compact camera with me. A collapsible lens is something I really like. The SLR is a good camera, but a bit bulky for a day out.
Yes Frank, it sure looks good, film loading, well after looking at some videos, ehmm....The IIIF is not made for fast loading. To me, the drawback with trimming the leader, is haing to do it outdoors, making it even harder.
I have only tested the M2, so far, but is sure feels good, very exciting to try out a III. But, as sad more than once here, when I buy one of them, I for sure will go for one from a dealer, or one that have had a CLA done.

 

[Jerevan]

Regarding trimming the leader on screwmounts - it's no problem doing this outside, with a small scissor. But normally, you trim the leader on a few rolls at home, before you go hiking.

And if you want to speed it all up a bit, buy an extra spool (much in the same way as the press photographers did back in the day with an M2) and prepare one roll with this. Then when you run to the end of the first roll, just drop the second one in, attached to the spool.

 

[TheTrailTog]

Don't lose sleep over the trimming of film leaders. It only takes 2 seconds to do. Some night while sitting watching tv just prep a few rolls ahead of time so you don't have to worry about it in the field. I never found loading to be an issue. With a little practice it can be done fairly quickly. Barnacks are very fun to shoot with and perfect for stuffing in the side pocket of a backpack for hiking. Crap, now I'm starting to feels the pangs of a Barnack GAS attack...DOH!

 

[MattKing]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that a film leader trimmed to work in a Barnack Leica will work fine in other 35mm cameras too.

As long as you take into account the fact that the longer leader will mean one or two fewer shots on the roll (in those other 35mm cameras).

 

[Jim Jones]

It's not necessary to trim the leader for Barnack bodies. Slip a sheet of thin cardboard in the loading slot and slide the film behind it. the cardboard keeps the shoulder on the leader from hanging up on the film gate. I used a IIIf for about ten years, but a M4 for the last 40+ years. Each has its advantages. The Barnack bodies with collapsing lenses are handy for carrying. The small viewfinder complicates precise framing, but editing the image later lets one fine tune the edges. The M series Leicas have a few conveniences which rarely enhance image quality.