Lowell Tota lights - any impressions ?

Hello,

I've been offered a Lowell Tota light kit - 3 lamps, kinda like this here:

Each with at least 1 stand, gel frame and flag for each lamp (if not more flags) - not to mention case, extra bulbs and a few tota style grippy bits'n'bobs - but minus the reflectors ...

more info here also

Its an old kit, but very well looked after (not used often).

What are your impressions from using them in shooting set ups ? Where are they best utilized ? They are pretty lightweight for the 800w output.

I shoot 120 and 8x10 - mostly outdoors but want to try out portraiture, I have strobes yes but no modeling lights on them so its always a bit random...

Also a bit of 16mm cine ...

Any info/advice appreciated

An idea of the going price for such a kit would be helpful too.

cheers,
Nick

I have a very old set. They are wonderful lights, but they are so intense I find my models prefer that I aim them away from them. I use an umbrella or bounce them off walls and or ceiling.

The only drawback is that it is difficult to feather them because they cover such a wide area.

Their low cost, light weight, robustness and portability make them attractive, but they are fairly uncontrollable. I wouldn't use mine direct because I don't like the shadows they produce, but they are OK bounced or diffused. As such they are as good as a lot of other open-face lights but not as good as fresnels or similar. Fresnels are much more versatile than any open-face instrument. Totas are good in softboxes and lanterns because you can get the doors right out of the way.

Totas are very easy to re-lamp, so you can switch out to 500 W lamps easily, for example.

You can get clip-on barn doors which have their uses - four will fit round the whole light. The ability to attach a Tota-flex and other Tota-thingies is a big convenience.

Never ever use them without the guard. A lamp explosion may be a very rare thing, but when it happens it is dramatic, and potentially blinding or disfiguring. You only need to see it happen once to be convinced. Never use them with the lamp vertical or near vertical either. You might know that already, but it is worth saying just in case.

Most lights like this keep their value fairly well unless they are badly burned, bent or otherwise damaged. I would have thought that about $90 to $100 would be about right for a Tota-light, depending on condition.

Best,
Helen

I use them... but yes - again - very bright. You can use bulbs from 500-1000W on them. Nothing lower though - I don't think. I usually end up using an umbrella or something just to drop the light level down a bit and make them more diffuse for interior shot fill lighting etc.... great lights though, in general. I'm not sure if I'd use them for portraiture though. Too hot!

Sparky said:

...You can use bulbs from 500-1000W on them...

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The recommended upper limit is 800 W with the guards in place, and as Lowel advise against their use without guards, an 800 W lamp is now the most powerful that Lowel state in the Tota-literature.

I think that the lowest wattage lamps available are 300 W at 120 V (which I have) or 500 W at 220/240 V. There may be a lower wattage 220/240 V lamp available. You can get clear and frosted in most wattages.

Best,
Helen

damn - I cant find the guards in the package ... (I'm borrowing it for a few days) - they are bright huh, squinty times - I would probably bounce them of some white card as I like diffuse sources in any case

excuse my ignorance, but if shooting black and white and color temperature is not as important what is stopping me from dimming the lamps electrically if they were too bright ?

Just make sure they're only pointed towards OTHER PEOPLE... not yourself - in the event of explosion...!

Maybe my opinion is a little bias, as i shoot video for a living and must work with these lights in that capacity most often.

four words -I don't like them-

here are my reasons. first and foremost they get hot, really hot. I find that they become so unreasonably hot that compared to other solid lighting they are more difficult to work with.
secondly - they cast a lot of random light. partly because of their shape and efforts made to make them portable. this isn't so bad then they are bounced, but i recommend keeping a roll of black wrap around to cover anything that might come up.
Lastly - they blow lamps more often that any other light I work with. Trust me I take extreme caution in making sure no oils from my hands ever come in contact with the lamp. I think that this is because of the temp that the light operates at. I will confess that all of the tota lights that I have worked with carried a 1k lamp. this can also be blamed for excess heat and longevity of the lamps. but in my business I always need more light.
If the price was Cheap.. Really cheap then I might keep them as a backup. but if you look on e*ay you can often find some nice Mole Richardson lights that I think are a better use of my money.

My opinion

nick mulder said:

damn - I cant find the guards in the package ... (I'm borrowing it for a few days) - they are bright huh, squinty times - I would probably bounce them of some white card as I like diffuse sources in any case

excuse my ignorance, but if shooting black and white and color temperature is not as important what is stopping me from dimming the lamps electrically if they were too bright ?

Click to expand...

The guards are not expensive to buy. You lose just under half a stop or thereabouts when you fit the wire guards. Without guards an exploding lamp can damage furniture and carpets, and set fire to nearby materials.

There's nothing to stop you using a dimmer. I use a bank of three in a softbox, with a dimmer on one. When all three are on, dimming one does not affect the overall colour temperature very much. With B&W it will hardly matter if all the lights are on dimmers, of course.

They do get hotter than other lights, mainly because they are so compact, and after they have been on for a while there is no part of them that you could touch with your bare hands - so you use sturdy leather gloves. Arri gloves are fairly compatible with Lowel lights, but normal hardware store leather gloves also work. Sticking to the recommended wattages and orientations, and taking great care not to touch the lamps at any time will help to prolong the life of the lamps.

A Tota will never be as spill-free as a good fresnel or open face lights like redheads (reds in PC-speak), blondes (yellows in PC) and broads (which term has slipped under the radar of the PC language police for some strange reason), but the four clip-on barn doors will help to some degree.

If you like large diffuse sources instead of small diffuse sources Totas have a lot going for them. I have a wide range of Dedos, Arri fresnels and a few Arrilites and broads but I can still find a use for Totas.

Best,
Helen

Tota lights

Beware! They aren't as bright as they seem once you start bouncing or diffusing them. Otherwise, they are perfect for broad illumination. Do use the screens, you'll be glad you did if a bulb explodes.

I'm in the vocal minority with Tommy, I don't like them.

Under professional daily use:

Lots of little parts that rattle apart. They are flimsy and fragile, compared to other instruments. You are always tightening up something, or looking for something that fell off into the bottom of the box (you hope). They are hard to control, and are pretty much useless for anything but a bounce. They will burn your fingers when you go to adjust them. The cord ends will fry, and fall apart. If you don't maintain them to impeccable standards, they will drift toward the cord pull (even though you've relieved it), or droop, after you aim them. The stand will sway away from center if you sneeze. Everything will then point in a slightly new direction.

(reds and blondes are temperamental in some regards as well, but much beloved for the quality of their light)

A Totas only strengths are being cheap, and having a high output while being very portable, which are exactly the two reasons why you will find them in heavy use at news organizations, hack TV EFP, and Z grade productions worldwide.

Once great in a while they are the perfect thing, but most of the time they aren't.

If you can get them for a really good deal, it can't hurt to have them. (I own exactly one Lowell, an Omni, which is marginally more useful). If I came across some Totas for a song, I'd certainly grab them, but I'd hang myself if they were the only instruments available.

If you are looking at market price, save a few more bucks and get an Arri kit. A blue hair and a couple of 650 fresnels will light rings around a couple of Totas, and still be in one piece after a few dozen shoots.

The Totas won't cut it for 8x10 portraiture, because they will look like crap as a point source and aren't powerful enough to bounce for the levels you will need, unless your lighting set up will always be a foot from the model, and your tota a foot from the board. (I am exaggerating a bit, but pull out your meter and run the math for the lenses you want to use on your 8x10 for portraits and see how you feel about the shutter you'll be setting.) The Arris have a better chance of being useful, but not much.

If you want to shoot portrait with the 8x10 consider some alien bees with modeling lights. Decent bang for the buck, and your models will thank you.

Helen B said:

There's nothing to stop you using a dimmer. I use a bank of three in a softbox, with a dimmer on one. When all three are on, dimming one does not affect the overall colour temperature very much. With B&W it will hardly matter if all the lights are on dimmers, of course.


Best,
Helen

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Note however that some B&W stocks require a speed adjustment when used with tungsten light because of their spectral sensitivity. Check the manufacturers info and test accordingly.

JBrunner said:

I'm in the vocal minority with Tommy, I don't like them.

Under professional daily use:...

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I wouldn't even consider them for 'professional daily use', nor would I consider redheads and blondes on their own as being a good lighting kit, for that matter - but those are my personal opinions based on the way I light. If Jason thinks that he is in the minority with Tommy in not liking them, then I have tried to be too even-handed and unbiased, and hidden my personal preferences too much. I agree with almost everything they say (I only disagree with Jason when he suggests that redheads and blondes have good quality light). But I wouldn't dismiss Totas out of hand - particularly for use in big softboxes if you want an evenly lit softbox (which I don't usually want). Even for that there are better alternatives, depending on your exact set of requirements.

If you are going to save and go for a good setup look for proper soft sources that suit your lighting style and other requirements (so much to choose from) and a Dedo 650 or two. These are a big improvement over standard fresnels like Arri Juniors in the 650 W to 1 kW range and well worth the money.

I mentioned the light loss through the wire guards. This, and the restriction in wattage because of the guard, means that a Tota puts out about half the light of a 1 kW broad (which can use a glass safety screen). A broad isn't much larger than a Tota, the lamp is protected and proper barn doors are standard. Unless ultimate compactness is required, the only real capability that you lose going from a Tota to a broad is that of bare bulb use. Though a broad is another one-trick light, at least it is reasonably well designed for its one trick. Broads are cheap. I couldn't find an online illustration of a glass-fronted broad so here, to avoid confusion, is what I know of as a broad, but with a wire screen:



The great thing is that you have the Totas to try, so you can make your own mind up about whether they are for you or not, and whether you want to use the same lights for 16 mm as you do for 8x10.

Best,
Helen

JBrunner said:

blondes are temperamental

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Tell me about it, I used to be married to one...


Peter - who can't believe that no one else got there before him with this (very) cheap shot.

look into getting your replacement light bulbs
through grey supply or the bulb man,
they are way-cheap! and the same bulbs
sell in stores for 2-3x the price.
topbulb dot com and bulbman dot com

make sure you get a t-shirt, they don't call them "hot lights" for nothing

Peter,

"who can't believe that no one else got there before him with this (very) cheap shot."

The whole thing on set about 'redheads', 'blondes' and 'broads' is that everyone has to keep a dead straight face.

Best,
Helen

A redhead or red (650 W to 1 kW open-face "focussing" light):

in a faintly reddish colour


and in blue


A blonde or yellow (2 kW open-face "focussing" light):

in yellow


and in blue

Tota-Lights --and Lowel in general-- is/are excellent equipment. Terrific for location work (I believe that Arnold Newman used Lowel quite a bit. Certainly for his superb portrait of President Lyndon B. Johnson).

Having said that, I tend to agree with much of what Helen B. has said so far in her posts, especially about control. Lowels put out ALOT of light, and --unless you use barns, cones, shades, scrims, gels, diffusion.. all at once (joke) the light will obviously tend to go all over the place! This high output is great for cinema or TV, perhaps, but for still photography, it isn't always needed (nor welcome). One tip then: try using a very weak globe (or at least keep one in your kit, as an option to revert to in case you need it.

Best,

Christopher

.

Barndoor it and punch it through a scrim or white umbrella. It also works well bounced off an umbrella. Now the Lowel Fren-L is a great little fresnel and much easier to carry than my Mole 4131's. But with a little imagination you can control just about any tungsten light. The Lowel totas, omnis, fren-Ls have accessories to control just about any output. Gel and diffusion holders, gobos, barndoors, snoots and places for umbrella mounts, ect.. ect. Good lights whether you are on a budget or not. I'd recommend them.

I have a similar light set up and agree with all the negative comments and will add one of my own. During the summer, shooting in an air-condition building, every once in a while, a bug would land on a light, usually the reflector, and cook.

After this happen a few times, I invested in studio strobes, the original White Lightning cans with modeling lights, still using them 20+ years later.

I kept the hot lights in case I needed for video shooting.

Leather gloves are useless if you are patient enough to wait for less than 10 minutes ( 500W) before packing your lights.
I love them because they are lighter than anything else - I use to carry them in museums or libraries where I shot artwork.

nick mulder said:

damn - I cant find the guards in the package ... (I'm borrowing it for a few days) - they are bright huh, squinty times - I would probably bounce them of some white card as I like diffuse sources in any case

excuse my ignorance, but if shooting black and white and color temperature is not as important what is stopping me from dimming the lamps electrically if they were too bright ?

Click to expand...

They haven't always come with guards. And at one time they did use 1000W lamps. As Helen B said though 800W w/guards.

jean VIGNE said:

Leather gloves are useless if you are patient enough to wait for less than 10 minutes ( 500W) before packing your lights.
I love them because they are lighter than anything else - I use to carry them in museums or libraries where I shot artwork.

Click to expand...

The leather gloves are for handling them while they are on - eg for realigning or for adjusting the barn doors, or for clipping gels on or whatever. Leather gloves are very handy for working with all manner of tungsten and HMI lights - that's why Arri give them to us, I think.

I also noticed the change in the Lowel* story that John mentions, with the '1000 W and no guard' option disappearing from the literature.

Best,
Helen
Ross Lowell is the guy, but Lowel-Light is the company name.

Hi J,

You're of course entitled to your opinion. Me, too! While I'll agree that Lowel Tota-Lights aren't necessarily perfect for every situation (what equipment is?), they deserve a bit of defense vis-a-vis your comments, which are more than a bit unfair!

JBrunner said:

Under professional daily use:
Lots of little parts that rattle apart. They are flimsy and fragile, compared to other instruments.

Click to expand...

Are you putting your Tota-Lights into the washing machine, or what?! I think that most users would agree that these lights are pretty sturdy. Yes, there are nuts and knobs which should probably be tightened once and awhile, like any other similar equipment. Fragile? You could drop-kick a Tota-Light and it would probably still work fine. Broken reflector or something? Lowel must have one of the best stock of parts available for easy user repairs that I've ever seen. Take a peek at their excellent website (http://www.lowel.com/).

JBrunner said:

They are hard to control, and are pretty much useless for anything but a bounce.

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I agree with you that control is important with these lights. However, if you are only capable of using them as a bounce, that would be an unfortunate comment on your competence. Therefore --assuming that you're a better photographer than that-- allow me to believe that you're kidding! Have you ever tried shooting them through a translucent umbrella and barning-down the spill, for instance? Take a look at Ross Lowel's lighting book. Great tips.

JBrunner said:

They will burn your fingers when you go to adjust them.

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Agreed. Use gloves or the adjustment knob.

JBrunner said:

The cord ends will fry, and fall apart.

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Nonsense. Sorry, my friend. I have never seen this happen. If this has happened to you, you might be using yours incorrectly (like, upside down, where the cord would take all the heat, for example).

JBrunner said:

If you don't maintain them to impeccable standards, they will drift toward the cord pull (even though you've relieved it), or droop, after you aim them.

Click to expand...

I haven't had this happen even when mine are front-heavy (barns, clipped-on gel and umbrella). Is this your actual experience, or hearsay?

JBrunner said:

The stand will sway away from center if you sneeze. Everything will then point in a slightly new direction.

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What can I say? Take Dristan before you shoot (smile.. my response is intended to be as silly as your charge)

JBrunner said:

only strengths are:
-being cheap
-having a high output
-being very portable
. . . which are exactly the two [sic] reasons why you will find them in heavy use at news organizations, hack TV EFP, and Z grade productions worldwide.

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C'mon, J! Lowel Tota-Lights have been used by many, many excellent --and extremely professional-- filmmakers and photographers for over 30 years. There is no need to insult them just because you, yourself, can't seem to use the stuff successfully!

JBrunner said:

The Totas won't cut it for 8x10 portraiture,
they will look like crap as a point source

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Again, nonsense. While it's true that I don't use my Tota-Lights "bare" (do you?), I've use mine for 8x10 portraits a several times with nice results. It occurs to me that you might not be modifying your light. Am I mistaken? You can PM me on this, if you'd like.

JBrunner said:

[They] aren't powerful enough to bounce for the levels you will need, unless your lighting set up will always be a foot from the model, and your tota a foot from the board.

Click to expand...

As you, yourself, said, you're exagerating! A white ceiling in a normal room + an up-turned Tota-Light can be great for overall (though top-heavy) fill and especially nice for hair. Better yet, bounce it off of a suspended styrofoam panel and you get ... magic.

JBrunner said:

If you want to shoot portrait with the 8x10 consider some alien bees with modeling lights.

Click to expand...

Jeepers, J, talk about "hack" and "z-grade" photographers ... haven't you ever heard of Profoto? Ok, just joking ... but see how silly comments can get you
riled-up?! You're right that flash has advantages --especially when using light-hungry large format. Continuous light source does, however, give a different look and you can see the exact effect of the lighting before you expose. Plus, three Tota-Lights will pack into the same space as a single flash-head.

Please take this retort lightly (no pun intended). As I said, I just felt that Lowel deserves being stood-up-for. (and, no, I don't work for them).

Best,

Christopher

.

I was being nice. The stuff is cheap junk.

I got a laugh from J Brunner's remarks about who uses these lights because the only place I had seen them used was indeed "hack" television.

In Tucson there is a "community" television studio set up and funded by the cable company which has the franchise for greater Tucson. In order to get the franchise they (Cox cable) had to fund and maintain a studio for Tucson residents to come in and produce local programming and provide at least two cable channels to cable cast the results. I was an audio consultant for a few shows (Jazz and commedy) and while there were a few efforts that were worthwhile the majority of the programming is poorly lighted, features washed out and fuzzy video and touts the virtues of bible belt nonsense, radical left and right wing philosophy and local whack jobs on a mission to inform the world about any number of idiotic subjects. I worked with them 20 years ago and they apparently have not upgraded their gear since then because when I flip by the channel the program on at the time looks as if it were shot with a home vhs camcorder and then copied two or three times before presenting the "master" to the studio for cable cast.

They used the kind of lighting mentioned in this thread for both studio and location shoots and you had your choice of either harsh shadowed direct lighting with blown out hightlights and trails from shiny objects or hazy fuzzy reflected lighting. Little or no control of the lighting even with barn doors.

Granted there were a few savy people who used the studio who could wring out acceptable results from the lights but the majority was (and is) bush league junk.

At the time I was working with a very good local commercial photographer who used hot lights a lot for product work and got excellent results but he had REALLY big lights ( I recall one 5k bank soft box) and lots of them with the types of lighting controls that allowed very fine adjustment of the light. We shot in 4x5 and 8x10 in the studio and I ran the bank of utility strips which powered the lights. Exposures would run in the minutes with various lights on for only a portion of the total exposure.

But back to the portables. I was told that one should turn the lights off after use and wait at least ten minutes before touching them in any way. The theory was that the hot filiments were much too fragile to be jostled and that one would drastically shorten the life of the bulbs if moved or jostled much when hot. They tried to make any adjustements (using a leather glove) in the first few minutes after turning them on or they had to turn them off and wait the ten minutes for them to cool.

Anyway as usual it is the photographer and not the gear who gets the results. They can be used to get excellent results in the hands of someone who is savy about lighting but will do little to improve the work of one who is not.