Low toxicity, Eco-friendly B&W processing

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Gerald C Koch

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I always get a kick out of seeing a sign on the Santa Monica Mall in a Holistic Pharmacy [Half-Asstic?] "Our Vitamins and Minerals Contain Absolutely No Chemicals".

More than once when I questioned the pharmacist about how "he could encapsilate a vacuum in a non-chemical container and sell it as a product" he threw me out telling me that I did not understand medicine or chemistry. :eek:

In 1815 the Swedish chemist JJ Berzerlius discredited the vital force theory when he showed that an inorganic chemical ammonium cyanate rearranges to urea when heated. So there is no magical property when chemicals are produced in living creatures. However we still see 'snake oil' ads that 'natural' vitamins are better than those that are manufactured.
 

Gerald C Koch

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I had a chemistry set when I was a kid and I loved it. I bet you'd be hard pressed to find one these days.

A few years ago I looked into purchasing a chemistry set as a gift. They still exist but the experiments are so innocuous as to be almost worthless.

Awhile back a mother was arrested and her children taken into 'protective' custody for allowing her children to walk to school. The idiocy of the action was even greater because she was following behind them in her car.
 

removed account4

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Stinks like an urn of badly burnt coffee.

thanks !

that used to be the running joke
" how long do you process your film for when you use caffenol c"
... " until you can't stand the stink"

ive used it enough that i don't even smell it anymore ...

if it was the other "stinks" i'd say naaah, ive been using it for 10 + years
never really had bad negatives from it ... maybe you are using the wrong rot gut brew,
or the wrong soda or vit c ...

but yeah, it can be kind of stinky ..
 

RalphLambrecht

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My wife will be teaching a B&W component in a high school art class this year and I was wondering if there is a good workflow for darkrooms that don't have an active ventilation system. As you know, with schools safety trumps all else. In another thread XTOL was mentioned as a low toxicity film developer. Water works for stop bath. But what about fixers, other stop baths and paper developers?
how about citric acid for a stop bath?
 

NJH

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I can't say what it is like in other countries but here in the UK this is rather straight forward, we have our Health and Safety Executive (HSE in common parlance), they produce a ton of documented guidance on how to apply regulations, both local and EU directives. The principles of performing risk assessment for work related tasks and reading the guidance on MSDS are known to every professional organisation. Also can't say about other countries but here the ALARP principle runs right through our health and safety system + similar but differently worded principles used in environmental risk assessment, thus one would have a hard time arguing why you wouldn't use fairly weak ascorbic acid or citric acid based chemistry when its available at similar cost and performance to legacy processing chemicals.
 

CMoore

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If the teacher handles all the mixing of stock solutions there should be few problems with safety.

The only stock solution that needs to be mixed to working dilution should be the developer. In most cases, it's 1:1 developer plus water. A high school student should be able to do that safely. If he can't he doesn't belong in photography. Everything else, stop bath, fixer and hypo clearing agent is usually mixed to working dilution from the start. All the student needs to do is pour out the right amount.

A high school student should understand the rules:
• Follow directions and measure accurately.
• Don't mix things that aren't supposed to be mixed.
• Don't spill.
• If you have an accident, wipe it up.
• No food or drinks in the lab.
• Wash your hands with soap and hot water before you leave the lab.
• Report any accidents or problems to the teacher AT ONCE.

If you feel the need to smooth things over with the administration, tell them that you require all students in the lab to wear chemical resistant, nitrile rubber gloves and safety goggles.

Write up a list of safety rules, print them up in large text and post them on the wall of the lab. On the first day of lab, give the students a safety lecture. Tell them that you will give one warning and, if they don't obey, they are out. This kind of "laying down the law" is often what many school administrators want to hear. If you take a proactive approach they will feel better.

XTOL is probably a good developer to use. You can tell the admins. that it is "basically made from vitamin-C." You can tell them that stop bath is "basically the same as vinegar." In either case, you're not lying. Ascorbic acid IS vitamin-C and acetic acid IS the main component of vinegar. You are just explaining things in terms that people can understand more easily.

Provided your students operate in a safe manner, the only thing that could cause you trouble is one of the students having an allergic reaction. This is pretty rare. Millions of people have used photographic chemistry, over the years, and allergic reactions are practically unheard of. In those rare cases where it does happen, wearing gloves, goggles and aprons is usually enough to solve the problem.

As others have said, the dangers of photographic chemistry are quite overblown. Those stories that people tell are usually second and third hand accounts of things that either didn't really happen or that happened years and years ago.

Modern photographic chemistry is quite safe, compared to the way things were years ago. If people behave responsibly I don't think there is any real danger.
INSURANCE...!!
I am in a COLLEGE Film Class and the school will not allow the students to Touch/Mix chemicals. This was NOT the case just Two Years ago. Students are told that gloves are available, but not required in The Darkroom. I am a bit shocked that we are allowed to have a Darkroom at all. I can foresee the time when Insurance Coverage will force schools to just give up on the whole thing.
You know how a Test Strip can be harder to grab with tongs than an 8x10+.....i frequently just grab it with my fingers when going from Stop to Fix for a quick dip, for something that will only see normal light for 10-30 seconds. Apparently, one of The Students was "Concerned" about this...reported it to her Somebody Or Other...and the department head told my teacher to tell me to knock it off. The School Does Not Want A Law Suit.
It is a sad comment on our "Modern Day Society".
 

brianentz

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If you are concerned with odor then here are some tips:

1. Any developer for film or paper will do. B&W developers are pretty much odorless.

2. If you can stand vinegar, then a stop bath is ok, but if not use citric acid or running water (but the latter only if you must and it is not best for prints).

3. Use a neutral fix. They have no odor.

PE
 

RalphLambrecht

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My wife will be teaching a B&W component in a high school art class this year and I was wondering if there is a good workflow for darkrooms that don't have an active ventilation system. As you know, with schools safety trumps all else. In another thread XTOL was mentioned as a low toxicity film developer. Water works for stop bath. But what about fixers, other stop baths and paper developers?
if you arelooking for eco-friendly, You picked the wrong hobby.
 

removed account4

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my high school ditched the chemical photography classes 15 years ago ( I took them there long before that )
college might still have them but I'm not sure, since 20 years ago they have had a giant ventilation system that hovers over the dark room trays cause the fumes are so bad for people ...
It is a sad comment on our "Modern Day Society".

not really.
putting your fingers in darkroom chemistry isn't good, its not good for you or the film / paper being processed
I recently was in school with someone who spent time in darkrooms over the years and she ended up getting sick from chemical exposure,
its real and has nothing to do with the nanny state, people lack common sense .
just like its common sense to be careful when using silver nitrate, eye protection and gloves but people still don't do that.
or common sense to not dump one's KCn on the ground or down the drain but people do that too, people you would have thought
had more common sense, but they don't.

Awhile back a mother was arrested and her children taken into 'protective' custody for allowing her children to walk to school. The idiocy of the action was even greater because she was following behind them in her car.

maybe not a bad idea these days.
near me the crossing guard was blocking traffic so kids going to grammar school could cross the street, drivers drove between her (the crossing guard) and the kids. she parked her car in the breakdown lane to shield the kids a few weeks later, someone slammed into her car as they tried to drive through the active crosswalk (and blamed her!). another driver in a sleepy neighborhood street drove between a kid walking onto the school bus and the bus .. few years before that a crossing guard was run over and killed ... in a crosswalk.
 
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Nicholas Lindan

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Old proverb: There are two infinities - Man's stupidity and God's patience. I'm afraid making laws to reduce the former is futile. I'm with the Darwin Awards: The sooner fools do themselves in the better; we should not stand in their way.
 

removed account4

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Old proverb: There are two infinities - Man's stupidity and God's patience. I'm afraid making laws to reduce the former is futile. I'm with the Darwin Awards: The sooner fools do themselves in the better; we should not stand in their way.

Yea people are dopes alight .. its too bad other people who aren't involved end up getting killed because of someone else's stupidity. ... regarding schools, teenagers and people in their early 20s might someday when they are older end up winning REAL awards for their smarts and brightness, at that age they are not known for their smarts and brightness.
For several years in the 90s I was involved with the Ig Nobel Awards and the Department of Improbably Research. Lot of morons were given prizes, and I got to meet Marlyn Vos savant :smile:
 
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