Low contrast developer for TMY-2 400

[Harry Lime]

Can someone recommend a low contrast developer for TMY-2 400?
I've grown quite fond of TMY-2 400, but the contrast can creep up quite quickly.

I'm currently using XTOL, using the standard times and agitation methods. I'm quite happy with XTOL, but I keep trying to lower the contrast and am not having too much luck.

Maybe I need to lower the agitation and increase the development time?

Maybe I need to go back to a divided developer


Any advice would be appreciated.

thx

 

[2F/2F]

Hi,

You might want to try D-23.

Or Pyrocat HD with VC paper. Pyrocat instead of PMK will keep the snap in the highest tones, while maintaining the general pyro benefit of keeping the contrast index of the entire frame from getting too high (with VC papers). If you want a more compressed look in the highest tones, I'd go with PMK instead. However, with one the characteristics of T-Max film being the strong ability to hold tonal separation in the densest areas, I think that using PMK is a little bit of a "waste" of the film's abilities, in general. I don't use T-Max if I want a compressed look in the high tones, in other words. I use it when I want a lot of tonal separation there, and use other films (HP5, e.g.) when I want the more graphic compressed look (most things I shoot).

Because t-grained films get a notable amount of their effective density from dyes, they use less silver than traditionally-grained films. (This is part of the reason why a correctly exposed t-grained negative looks about a stop thinner to the eye.) The pyro's stain being proportional to silver density, its effect on T-Max, Delta, and Acros will be a little less than with the latter group (e.g. Tri-X or Plus-X). But it still "does its thing."

 

[Ian Grant]

TMY-2 is excellent in Xtol, but you may need to increase exposure by a stop and cut the development time to 70-80% to reduce the contrast.

Ideally you should do a full film speed/development time test to find your optimum EI/Dev time, it doesn't take very long but helps enormously.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

There's no dyes in the final processed T-grain negative just a silver based image, they are in the emulsions to help with sharpness & fine grain and are removed during processing, particularly in the fixer.

Entirely different dyes are formed in Pyrocatechin & Pyrogallol etc staining developers which cause proportional staining alongside the silver image.

Ian

Because t-grained films get a notable amount of their effective density from dyes, they use less silver than traditionally-grained films. (This is part of the reason why a correctly exposed t-grained negative looks about a stop thinner to the eye.) The pyro's stain being proportional to silver density, its effect on T-Max, Delta, and Acros will be a little less than with the latter group (e.g. Tri-X or Plus-X). But it still "does its thing."

 

[Bruce Watson]

The main tools to control contrast index (and Dmax) in film developing are developer temperature, time in developer, and agitation technique. If you want less contrast (that is, a lower contrast index and less Dmax), then use a lower temperature, or less time, or less agitation. Or a combination of the above.

Personally, I'd try to hold developer temperature at 20C because developers with multiple developing agents can change characteristics with changing temperatures. So start with decreasing time and/or agitation.

 

[jp498]

You may need to adjust to a lower film speed and faster development as suggested; easy to try.

What dilution to you use? I like 1+1 and have also done 1+2. You could try those to see if it meets your needs.

I like xtol a great deal too, but for high contrast scenes (such as bright sun) I want to render in manageable contrast, I develop with PMK.

 

[BetterSense]

Another vote for D23. It's what I use when I want to do what I can to 'pull' TMY that has been exposed in contrasty conditions.

 

[removed account4]

nice low contrast beautiful to print negatives
can be found using a coffee based developer

you might check out the "coffee blog"
http://caffenol.blogspot.com/
rienhold has a great site that has
all sorts of variations that might
be just what you are looking for...

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I completely agree with Ian.

TMY-2 is excellent in Xtol, but you may need to increase exposure by a stop and cut the development time to 70-80% to reduce the contrast.

Ideally you should do a full film speed/development time test to find your optimum EI/Dev time, it doesn't take very long but helps enormously.

Ian

 

[nworth]

Less development (often just less agitation) is the traditional way to lower contrast, but with roll film TMY, you may get too low a contrast on most shots while trying to control just a couple that get away from you. Xtol and even D-76 (1+1) are excellent developers for TMY, but they do tend to be a bit contrasty. D-23 has more compensating effect, and may help. TMax developer, while it doesn't (in my opinion) have quite the quality of Xtol or D-76, is also better at controlling the contrast.

 

[2F/2F]

There's no dyes in the final processed T-grain negative just a silver based image, they are in the emulsions to help with sharpness & fine grain and are removed during processing, particularly in the fixer.

Entirely different dyes are formed in Pyrocatechin & Pyrogallol etc staining developers which cause proportional staining alongside the silver image.

Ian

My mistake. Why is it that T-Max negs look thinner than other negs, then? I was told that that this was because they did not need as much silver to achieve the same effective density as other films, due to the dyes.

 

[Harry Lime]

Thank you gents.

Until recently I used Barry Thornton's 2-bath for all my 400asa work, but it's been difficult to purchase raw chemicals up here in Canada. So it's been Xtol for the past few months. I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and order some from the Photographers formulary in the States.

I'm currently using Xtol 1:1 with the Kodak recommended amount of agitation and times. I'll try cutting agitation in half and may adjust the time and see what i get. I would like to make Xtol work, because I travel a lot and raw chemicals are often unavailable.

BUt D23 is a good recommendation. Will I still get full speed from D23? I'm not even sure I was getting full speed from BT 2-bath. I'm guessing it was more like 320 or 200asa.

 

[Ian Grant]

My mistake. Why is it that T-Max negs look thinner than other negs, then? I was told that that this was because they did not need as much silver to achieve the same effective density as other films, due to the dyes.

They do use less silver but they use it more efficiently, the base & base fog layer is less dense and finer grain also makes them look less dense - assuming they are compared to negs that print to similar contrasts.

Yes the dyes do have an effect but are later destroyed/removed. If they weren't ypu couldn't reversal process Tmax films.

Ian

 

[2F/2F]

Thanks, Ian. On my own negatives, I do find the effect of PMK and Pyrocat HD to be less with t-grained films than with other films, though. Across and T-Max 100 are the ones I have used with these developers. I have begun using PMK pretty-much exclusively with Acros for night shots.

Harry, some people need to reduce their EI with D-23. I personally find that I do not need too; it actually supports, if it does not increase, the lower tones more than some standard developers. You'd have to find out for yourself about what to do with the EI. But I would try some.

If you don't want to mix it yourself, you can get it from Photographer's Formulary, or get the same P.F. product through Freestyle. It may not be in Freestyle's online catalog, but they definitely stock it. I just saw it on the shelf there yesterday.

 

[OMU]

Hi
I'l recoment Caffenol-C-M

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[cmo]

Better leave agitation as it is and just reduce the time. It is much easier to control.

Tri-X@200 in D76 has been quite popular in the past, the trick works fine with Tmax 400, too. In XTol 1:1 you will be able to reduce contrast and get very good results, 7.5-8 minutes. I use Tri-X and Tmax400 @200 for medium format people photos.

 

[Harry Lime]

I should note that I'm also trying to keep the speed at 400.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Xtol 1+1 is the perfect developer for getting maximum shadow detail. When you slow down agitation, and compensate by developing longer, you also lift the shadow details.
If you just cut time, you will lose shadow detail.

Do this: Shoot a test roll at 400. Process the film in Xtol 1+1 for 12 minutes, agitating for the full first minute, and then 10s every 3 minutes.
If you don't have enough density, increase to 13 minutes, 14 minutes, etc, until you have negatives that suit you.

It also depends on what the contrast of the scene is, but by slowing down agitation you gain something you don't gain if you just shorten time and agitate normally - a lift in shadow detail.
Basically, you expose for the mid-tones, developing time for shadow detail, and agitate for highlights. It is worth to experiment like this, in my opinion, because once you learn it, you have much more control over the end result.

However, in really low contrast shooting conditions, you may wish to agitate something like every 30 seconds - for TWO reasons. 1. There isn't much shadow detail to begin with. 2. You need some zing to the highlights.

Good luck,

- Thomas

I should note that I'm also trying to keep the speed at 400.

 

[Harry Lime]

Thanks everyone. I will try XTOL at a higher dilution and with different development times.

If worse comes to worse I'll order some raw chemicals to whip up some DD76 or similar...

 

[ic-racer]

Can someone recommend a low contrast developer for TMY-2 400?
I've grown quite fond of TMY-2 400, but the contrast can creep up quite quickly.

I'm currently using XTOL, using the standard times and agitation methods. I'm quite happy with XTOL, but I keep trying to lower the contrast and am not having too much luck.

Maybe I need to lower the agitation and increase the development time?

Maybe I need to go back to a divided developer


Any advice would be appreciated.

thx

Without seeing the shape of the H&D curve you are getting, its hard to give an answer. If you are getting a steep upward trend before the shoulder and want to tame that, without reducing mid range density, you could try less agitation as you mentioned.

If you already have a smooth straight curve, then just decrease development time. Use a colder development temp if your times are too short. You could also try T-max developer, which needs longer times than the developers designed for 65F process temp.

 

[JS MD]

Also D 23 two steps Process / if somebody here remember that /

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Perhaps this is a silly question, but is the contrast problem so severe that you can't control it in printing?

 

[JS MD]

you can see by these Curves Contrast already high even in low Exp- wrong Dev

 

[Harry Lime]

I could, if I wasn't 1600 miles away from my enlarger...

Currently on the road with the evil scanner in the suitcase...

Yes, I can lift the shadows in PS or a wet print, but I still feel that with my current developer setup TMAX builds contrast in bright light very quickly.

 

[cmo]

In that case, let me put it like this: it is highly likely that your scanner is not able to see details in the highlights. Many scanners have that problem.

(Of course, this is OT for apug)

If you have no other choice as you are far away from home, Diafine might help because it limits highlight densities, at 640 ASA, 3+3 minutes @20° C.