Looking for some assistance in testing a Hasselblad 500c

[djdister]

if that bothers the buyer,let him or her replace it. I suggest not to make additional investments prior to a sale. they arerarely economical. The camera as-is should still fetch around $1,000.

$1,000 for an untested beater with obvious issues? Doubtful, even if it's a Hasselblad. Though there is P.T. Barnum's theory...

 

[F4U]

A thousand for that? Maybe $450. But then, I'm jaded. I use to work on the bodies. When you work in a hot dog factory and see how they're made, you're less apt to pay what the baseball park charges. But I wouldn't use it myself. The mirror backing foam are small spots of dust where little squares of foam once were. You'll get the focus accuracy of a box camera. And a jam is always just waiting on you to trip the shutter. Not just an ordinary jam, but the kind that throws the whole mechanism out of time. A nice Hasselblad properly serviced is a dream. But once the coil and damper button gets gunked up with old grease and the foam is gone, it's worthless. Sorry to sound so critical, but I know those bodies too well. Never worked on the shutters, but they're a mile off too, I'm sure.

 

[RezaLoghme]

I disagree, Ralph. The aftermarket dark slide makes the worn camera look even worse A proper OEM one can be sourced on Ebay. The camera needs to be cleaned and fully tested and all faults disclosed. Maybe it is a better idea to sell the components separately.

 

[Don_ih]

A thousand for that? Maybe $450.

Check ebay sold listings. That could easily sell for 1000.

Full kits are appealing to people who have no Hasselblad stuff but want to experience the "magic".

 

[RezaLoghme]

Let's remain constructive. A full set can sell, although a 500C with a silver Planar is very much entry-level and can(!) come with some ticking time-bombs (I have been through it).

So it is important that the TE makes proper photos (as this is a photo forum, let's keep the standards high) and meticulously describes and faults and niggles (or fixes them). Remove the go-faster stripes, find a proper OEM dark slide, etc. Then, with a bit of luck, a fair deal could be struck.

 

[koraks]

So it is important that the TE makes proper photos (as this is a photo forum, let's keep the standards high) and meticulously describes and faults and niggles (or fixes them). Remove the go-faster stripes, find a proper OEM dark slide, etc. Then, with a bit of luck, a fair deal could be struck.

Please keep responses within scope of the question. We're not presently trying to answer the question what OP should do in order to sell his camera on Photrio. He asked information on how to verify proper functioning of the camera.

The reason I'm pointing this out is that all manner of ethical and commercial assumptions become intertwined in the kind of response I've quoted above and it's up to OP to decide where he stands on this. The rest of the world can take or leave his position as is. Secondly, as indicated in #2, at present this is about collecting information on the camera. Putting it up for sale is a different activity and as said will not be taking place in this thread.

 

[Don_ih]

The main reason to advise as-is sale of the camera is due to @Webbie's self-stated inability to test the camera. There are too many potential issues that camera can have - film spacing, light leaks, focus issues, shutter speed issues - things you will not find out without trying film in the camera.

There are some things that can be done.

Test the shutter with the back off. Make sure the back shutter doors are opening and closing smoothly. Check that the lens is stopping down when the shutter is fired (closing to the set aperture). You'll need to figure out how to adjust the shutter speed and aperture independently. See if the shutter is really dragging on the slower shutter speeds. Feel for too much tension while resetting the shutter with the advance knob (check that with the back on and off). Shine a flashlight at the darkslide slot with the darkslide out and the back off and see if light shines through (look from the other side of the slot) - no light should be visible but probably is. Remove the tape from the magnifier in the viewfinder and see if it will still pop into place and look ok. (Likely it was taped in that position because whoever owned the camera didn't want to use it - maybe he/she had glasses.)

After all that, buy a roll of film, look up the manual at Butkus, learn how to load the film, take the camera outside on a sunny day and take some photos. Get it developed. See how they look. (Use Kodak Gold, set the shutter at 1/125 at f8 or f11).

 

[abruzzi]

The main reason to advise as-is sale of the camera is due to @Webbie's self-stated inability to test the camera. There are too many potential issues that camera can have - film spacing, light leaks, focus issues, shutter speed issues - things you will not find out without trying film in the camera.

I hope @Webbie is still following this thread ad hasn't been scared off by all of us. This is one of the main issues I see. We don't know his familiarity with Hasselblads or film cameras in general. The Hasselblad style of camera (MF SLR with removable film back and in lens shutter) is one of the most complex mechanical camera types made, and the HB 500C being the progenitor of that design has some of its own complexities that some others might not have. Someone that has spent 6 months shooting a hand-me-down Canon AE-1 or Nikkormat FTn hasn't come remotely close to experiencing to complexity of a Hasselblad. I don't mean that as a criticism, and I don't mean to discourage the OP just as a warning that if he is new to all this, he's going to need some help.

Asking here is a great place to start but a bunch of random posters (like me) saying do this or do that, isn't going to get a beginner here he needs to be (sorry if I'm misreading you're level of knowledge.) Webbie's profile says he's in Rockford--IL I imagine--I'm nowhere near there, but testing is better done by someone that knows more about the camera and can walk through some of these things. I woud problably suggest the following:

1. Start with the in lens shutter. Figure out how to cock and trip the shutter with the back removed so you can eyeball the shutter timings, but mostly just to make sure that part works. Start with the slowest shutter speed, and move faster. You won't be able to eyeball the difference between 1/250 and 1/500, and faster than 1/60 is really hard to eyeball, but get a sense that it seems to work.

2. Check the aperture--I'm not sure is this works on a HB, but open the shutter with B ot T mode, and opens and close the aperture to make sure that it opens and closes in a way that looks normal. Also, with the shutter closed, make sure that turning the apertur ring doesn't open and close the aperture--look in the viewfinder as you change the aperture and make sure the brightness doesnt change (it should only close down when triggering the shutter.

3. Lens removal and reattachment--I've never owned one, but I have seen some discussion that at times things can get jammed up if the lens is removed while uncocked, or something like that. A HB person should know more than me, but make sure that works as expected.

4. film back advance and spacing--I do this on all the 6x9 backs I have, it should be possible on the HB, but I'm not 100% sure. Take a used roll of backing paper and spool it onto a used spool. Make sure the unexposed end is out. Load it into the film backand advance to frame 1. Remove the back from the camera, figure out how to remove the dark slide (I don't know if the HB of that era have interlocks that keep you from remove the slide with the back off.). You should see black backing paper. Take a sharpie and trace the 6x6 frame. Reattaach the back, that shot 1, advance the film, then remove the back and dark slide, trace frame 2 6x6 frame. Continue this through all 12 frames. Make sure that after all 12 frames are shot the camera allows you to fully advance the roll through. Now remove the paper and look at the 12 6x6 squares you traced. First, the frame 1 should be pretty close to the remanant of tape that marks the beginning of the film. The next 11 frames should not overlap and should have about a centimeter or a little less distance between them. If its a little off or a little variable that not really a problem, but overlaps are, gradually increasing spaces are, 1 inch spaces are.

5. The vievfinder is pretty easy. As mentioned, there is tape holding the magnifier down, that suggests that the catch that keeps it out of the way isn't working but remove the tape and confirm. Look to see if anything else doesn't work.

6. You've now tested everything except the camera itself. Testing the camera requires everything else to work to some extent. You sort of run through things when you ran paper through the back, but do it again, but this time focus on the whether the mirror resets itself after every frame advance (i.e. after advancing, can you see an image in the viewfinder again?

7. I'm sure I missed something else, but at this point I'd say you're ready for a film test. buy a few rolls of the cheapest B&W film you can find (Foma 100 or Kentmere 100.). I use 100 because one of my tests requires that I shoot as many identical frames with the same exposure but different aperture/shutter combinations. Thats easier for me with a 100 speed film, but it may be different for you. But there are a few other things we want to test. You may be able to test all of these on a since roll of 12 shots, or you may want to spread them over a couple of rolls.

a. We want to look for light leaks. Most commonly this can come from the dark slide. Make sure to remove the dark slide, turn on the flashlight on your cell phone and run it over every seam on the back, camera and lens. This is a torture test for light leaks because in the real worls some leaks are minor enought that a quick remove-shoot-replace with the dark slide may not be enough to be noticable.

b. focus tests. take a few shots at ƒ2.8 close to the minimum focus distance (probably near a meter). This will give you the smallest depth of field, making easy to see if the lens or more likely the mirror or focus screes are badly positioned. Make sure you know exactly where it is focused and use the magnifier to be sure focus looks accurate in the viewfinder. If you expect to fix it before selling, it my be helpful to do a focus test where you can see if the focus is too far forward or behind where you thought the focus was. to do tht take a ruler or yardstick, mount it at a 45 degree angle a meter in front of the camera, and focus on a specific number (and write down the number so you don't forget.) When developed, if the number you focused on is in focus in the frame, Great! if its not look for where the focus is sharp, and you can tell if it is front focused or rear focused.

c. Shutter consistency--Since I don't have a way to actually measure shutter speeds, I like to guage shutter consistency. This requires light that doesn't change. That means a day where the sun won't go behind a cloud, or a studio with a fixed lighting setup that won't be affected by changin light coming in through a window. I live where we get 300+ cloudless days a year, so the sun is my preference. I setup on a tripod which isn't strictly necessary, but is helpful. Sunny 16 says I should shoot 100 speed film at ƒ16 + 1/125 (about.) so the range that I should be able shoot that have the same exposure are ƒ22 + 1/60, ƒ16 + 1/125, ƒ11 + 1/250, ƒ8 + 1/500. So if you take the exact same shot in the exact same light at those four setting, when developing they should show the same density on the developed film. If you have slower film (or treat the 100 speed film as 50 or 25) you can add more to that range. Shooting in darker environs with 100 speed can also extend that, but using sunny 16 lets it test accuracy, not just consistency. This is the simple cheap way for someone without a shutter speed tester to see if the shutter speeds are close to consistent. 1/500 is rarely accurate on leaf shutter, so don't be surprised if that one is a bit more dense on the negative.


Ok, so there is 10,000 words on testing a camera. This is something I do on every camera I have bought in the last 8 years or so. Its far from perfect, and I'm sure a lot of more skilled people here will scoff at some of this, but if I've just paid $1k for a new camera setup, I do all of this (or at least what is appropriate for the type of camera I have just bought) so I have a sense of what issues I'll have to deal with in the short term and whether the camera lives up to the listing.

 

[djdister]

The OP has been given plenty of suggestions for what to test and how to test the camera, but since he stated in post #10 that he's not interested in actually doing any of that, I suggest the thread should be closed. Otherwise, many other well meaning folks will spend time and effort on describing how to test the camera for no real reason.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I hope @Webbie is still following this thread ad hasn't been scared off by all of us. This is one of the main issues I see. We don't know his familiarity with Hasselblads or film cameras in general. The Hasselblad style of camera (MF SLR with removable film back and in lens shutter) is one of the most complex mechanical camera types made, and the HB 500C being the progenitor of that design has some of its own complexities that some others might not have. Someone that has spent 6 months shooting a hand-me-down Canon AE-1 or Nikkormat FTn hasn't come remotely close to experiencing to complexity of a Hasselblad. I don't mean that as a criticism, and I don't mean to discourage the OP just as a warning that if he is new to all this, he's going to need some help.

Asking here is a great place to start but a bunch of random posters (like me) saying do this or do that, isn't going to get a beginner here he needs to be (sorry if I'm misreading you're level of knowledge.) Webbie's profile says he's in Rockford--IL I imagine--I'm nowhere near there, but testing is better done by someone that knows more about the camera and can walk through some of these things. I woud problably suggest the following:

1. Start with the in lens shutter. Figure out how to cock and trip the shutter with the back removed so you can eyeball the shutter timings, but mostly just to make sure that part works. Start with the slowest shutter speed, and move faster. You won't be able to eyeball the difference between 1/250 and 1/500, and faster than 1/60 is really hard to eyeball, but get a sense that it seems to work.

2. Check the aperture--I'm not sure is this works on a HB, but open the shutter with B ot T mode, and opens and close the aperture to make sure that it opens and closes in a way that looks normal. Also, with the shutter closed, make sure that turning the apertur ring doesn't open and close the aperture--look in the viewfinder as you change the aperture and make sure the brightness doesnt change (it should only close down when triggering the shutter.

3. Lens removal and reattachment--I've never owned one, but I have seen some discussion that at times things can get jammed up if the lens is removed while uncocked, or something like that. A HB person should know more than me, but make sure that works as expected.

4. film back advance and spacing--I do this on all the 6x9 backs I have, it should be possible on the HB, but I'm not 100% sure. Take a used roll of backing paper and spool it onto a used spool. Make sure the unexposed end is out. Load it into the film backand advance to frame 1. Remove the back from the camera, figure out how to remove the dark slide (I don't know if the HB of that era have interlocks that keep you from remove the slide with the back off.). You should see black backing paper. Take a sharpie and trace the 6x6 frame. Reattaach the back, that shot 1, advance the film, then remove the back and dark slide, trace frame 2 6x6 frame. Continue this through all 12 frames. Make sure that after all 12 frames are shot the camera allows you to fully advance the roll through. Now remove the paper and look at the 12 6x6 squares you traced. First, the frame 1 should be pretty close to the remanant of tape that marks the beginning of the film. The next 11 frames should not overlap and should have about a centimeter or a little less distance between them. If its a little off or a little variable that not really a problem, but overlaps are, gradually increasing spaces are, 1 inch spaces are.

5. The vievfinder is pretty easy. As mentioned, there is tape holding the magnifier down, that suggests that the catch that keeps it out of the way isn't working but remove the tape and confirm. Look to see if anything else doesn't work.

6. You've now tested everything except the camera itself. Testing the camera requires everything else to work to some extent. You sort of run through things when you ran paper through the back, but do it again, but this time focus on the whether the mirror resets itself after every frame advance (i.e. after advancing, can you see an image in the viewfinder again?

7. I'm sure I missed something else, but at this point I'd say you're ready for a film test. buy a few rolls of the cheapest B&W film you can find (Foma 100 or Kentmere 100.). I use 100 because one of my tests requires that I shoot as many identical frames with the same exposure but different aperture/shutter combinations. Thats easier for me with a 100 speed film, but it may be different for you. But there are a few other things we want to test. You may be able to test all of these on a since roll of 12 shots, or you may want to spread them over a couple of rolls.

a. We want to look for light leaks. Most commonly this can come from the dark slide. Make sure to remove the dark slide, turn on the flashlight on your cell phone and run it over every seam on the back, camera and lens. This is a torture test for light leaks because in the real worls some leaks are minor enought that a quick remove-shoot-replace with the dark slide may not be enough to be noticable.

b. focus tests. take a few shots at ƒ2.8 close to the minimum focus distance (probably near a meter). This will give you the smallest depth of field, making easy to see if the lens or more likely the mirror or focus screes are badly positioned. Make sure you know exactly where it is focused and use the magnifier to be sure focus looks accurate in the viewfinder. If you expect to fix it before selling, it my be helpful to do a focus test where you can see if the focus is too far forward or behind where you thought the focus was. to do tht take a ruler or yardstick, mount it at a 45 degree angle a meter in front of the camera, and focus on a specific number (and write down the number so you don't forget.) When developed, if the number you focused on is in focus in the frame, Great! if its not look for where the focus is sharp, and you can tell if it is front focused or rear focused.

c. Shutter consistency--Since I don't have a way to actually measure shutter speeds, I like to guage shutter consistency. This requires light that doesn't change. That means a day where the sun won't go behind a cloud, or a studio with a fixed lighting setup that won't be affected by changin light coming in through a window. I live where we get 300+ cloudless days a year, so the sun is my preference. I setup on a tripod which isn't strictly necessary, but is helpful. Sunny 16 says I should shoot 100 speed film at ƒ16 + 1/125 (about.) so the range that I should be able shoot that have the same exposure are ƒ22 + 1/60, ƒ16 + 1/125, ƒ11 + 1/250, ƒ8 + 1/500. So if you take the exact same shot in the exact same light at those four setting, when developing they should show the same density on the developed film. If you have slower film (or treat the 100 speed film as 50 or 25) you can add more to that range. Shooting in darker environs with 100 speed can also extend that, but using sunny 16 lets it test accuracy, not just consistency. This is the simple cheap way for someone without a shutter speed tester to see if the shutter speeds are close to consistent. 1/500 is rarely accurate on leaf shutter, so don't be surprised if that one is a bit more dense on the negative.


Ok, so there is 10,000 words on testing a camera. This is something I do on every camera I have bought in the last 8 years or so. Its far from perfect, and I'm sure a lot of more skilled people here will scoff at some of this, but if I've just paid $1k for a new camera setup, I do all of this (or at least what is appropriate for the type of camera I have just bought) so I have a sense of what issues I'll have to deal with in the short term and whether the camera lives up to the listing.

I agree, but the simplest thing for the OP is to download the 500c manual and work it dry as suggested there. That should flush out any flaws.

 

[Don_ih]

I agree, but the simplest thing for the OP is to download the 500c manual and work it dry as suggested there. That should flush out any flaws.

Sorry, Ralph, but it really would not. The manual tells you how to use a properly functioning camera. It doesn't tell you how to identify bad shutters speeds, lack of stop-down, back malfunctions and light leaks, or any other potential problem. @abruzzi and I outlined many issues that are not even hinted at in the manual.

The manual was written for a spanking new camera - not one that's 55 years old and heavily used.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

if that bothers the buyer,let him or her replace it. I suggest not to make additional investments prior to a sale. they arerarely economical. The camera as-is should still fetch around $1,000.

If this is a mockup of parts, it will be less..... Strange - and red flag - that the seller doesn't even mention his/her experience with this camera, and or does not want to shot one roll.... but with your comment he has what he probably wants, and that is a price advice.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Sorry, Ralph, but it really would not. The manual tells you how to use a properly functioning camera. It doesn't tell you how to identify bad shutters speeds, lack of stop-down, back malfunctions and light leaks, or any other potential problem. @abruzzi and I outlined many issues that are not even hinted at in the manual.

The manual was written for a spanking new camera - not one that's 55 years old and heavily used.

+1

 

[BrianShaw]

… the go-faster stripes…

Im almost afraid to ask, but I will nonetheless. What do those blue and yellow stripes signify and how do they help the user either go faster or avoid errors?

 

[F4U]

Im almost afraid to ask, but I will nonetheless. What do those blue and yellow stripes signify and how do they help the user either go faster or avoid errors?

That's not the question. The question is: do the screws on the tripod mount on the bottom show signs of chewing of the screwdriver slots? If not, fine enough. If so, then it's quite possible that the camera had jammed and somebody removed the barn door damper and discarded it. Consequently the barn door hinges are cracked and it is a parts body now, at best. There's a small chance this is a 1957-only model and has a piston damper for the barn doors, which makes the camera rare and collectible. But no matter how you look at it, the camera, lens, and shutter need SERIOUS attention before it can once again claim it's fame as a Hasselblad. BTW, The film back will also require a CLA.

 

[BrianShaw]

“That's not the question. The question is: …”

Pardon me, but, yes… that was my question. I can only assume by your response that you don’t know the answer. That’s fine but don’t dismiss my question please.

 

[F4U]

Not at all. It seems we are in agreement more than the other might know. It's a used Hasselblad. WELL used, and maybe loved. But it goes against my religion to work on any more Hasselblads. It's a 450 dollar (on a good day) Hasselblad camera and lens. Can't say how much for service to bring it up to par. I quit that 10 years ago. Hasselblads and Rolleifexes are in a league where some people are williing to spend trainloads of money for a name. Actually a nice Rapid Omega can beat either like a drum.

 

[Don_ih]

What do those blue and yellow stripes signify

I have no idea. I can't see any purpose other than adding a quick distinguishing mark to tell your lens apart from someone else's. I assume "go-faster" is a reference to "racing stripes".

Actually a nice Rapid Omega can beat either [Hasselblad or Rolleiflex] like a drum.

That's pretty funny.