Looking for my first FD mount SLR

Policar · Dec 7, 2019

Hi everyone,

I've owned and used a Nikon F (with a broken meter) and an Olympus OM before but I am looking for my first Canon FD mount SLR.

I like to meter TTL so I want a camera with a good meter. I also want basic manual control and the ability to dial in exposure compensation or use a manual mode where I can see the suggested f-stop and then enter in my own choice instead. I prefer aperture priority mode to shutter speed priority mode.

Also something metal and stylish is nice, but I would rather not spend too much. I like the aesthetics of AE-1 program in black but boy have prices skyrocketed!

BMbikerider · Dec 7, 2019

The FD Mount Canon AE1 is/was a good camera, but they are like a lot of other manual focus film cameras, are getting a bit thin on the ground. Hence the increased price for working examples This is almost certainly due to the electronics which were quite primitive when compared to the one in use now. This, plus the lack of spare parts has resulted in many cameras being cannibalised to keep one good on 'on the road'. If you find one in fully working order the very first thing I would do is have it fully checked over. Even that would not ensure it will remaining working in the long run..

As far as I am aware the only camera with (quite basic) electronics that is being kept 'alive' is the Nikon F2. They are mostly all repairable with new electronics being manufactured by an ex Nikon engineer. Any repair is not cheap, but will ensure it works even if the battery and meter fail. Their strong point being the mechanics are not battery or electronics dependant

Your desired AE1P on the other hand, if the electronics fail there is no certainty that the mechanical side will work because they depend on electrics as well. If you are prepared to use a hand held meter then almost any good quality mechanical camera without complex (relatively) electronics will outlive electronic ones.

Policar · Dec 7, 2019

BMbikerider said:
The FD Mount Canon AE1 is/was a good camera, but they are like a lot of other manual focus film cameras, are getting a bit thin on the ground. Hence the increased price for working examples This is almost certainly due to the electronics which were quite primitive when compared to the one in use now. This, plus the lack of spare parts has resulted in many cameras being cannibalised to keep one good on 'on the road'. If you find one in fully working order the very first thing I would do is have it fully checked over. Even that would not ensure it will remaining working in the long run..

As far as I am aware the only camera with (quite basic) electronics that is being kept 'alive' is the Nikon F2. They are mostly all repairable with new electronics being manufactured by an ex Nikon engineer. Any repair is not cheap, but will ensure it works even if the battery and meter fail. Their strong point being the mechanics are not battery or electronics dependant

Your desired AE1P on the other hand, if the electronics fail there is no certainty that the mechanical side will work because they depend on electrics as well. If you are prepared to use a hand held meter then almost any good quality mechanical camera without complex (relatively) electronics will outlive electronic ones.

Thanks. I would rather not use a handheld meter. I plan to use this mostly to shoot family photos, no time to use a light meter. I used to shoot slides on larger formats, where I would carefully meter, whereas I'd use this for family events.

This might be heresy, but how is the T60? Looks like it has both aperture priority and a fully manual mode where the meter still operates. What would I be missing? It's a much newer camera. Would the meter work as well as on the AE-1 program?

Paul Howell · Dec 7, 2019

T90, it's a great camera, the last pro level FD mount body, built in motor drive, built like tank, uses AA batteries. had one for a couple of years, as I too many systems I let it go, should have kept it. At the mid level the T70-

Chan Tran · Dec 7, 2019

Policar said:
Hi everyone,

I've owned and used a Nikon F (with a broken meter) and an Olympus OM before but I am looking for my first Canon FD mount SLR.

I like to meter TTL so I want a camera with a good meter. I also want basic manual control and the ability to dial in exposure compensation or use a manual mode where I can see the suggested f-stop and then enter in my own choice instead. I prefer aperture priority mode to shutter speed priority mode.

Also something metal and stylish is nice, but I would rather not spend too much. I like the aesthetics of AE-1 program in black but boy have prices skyrocketed!

Someone suggested the T90 and perhaps it can do what you want. But none of the A cameras can do what you want. You can't see the exposure suggested by the camera and manually set it at the same time with any of the A cameras.

Policar · Dec 7, 2019

Chan Tran said:
Someone suggested the T90 and perhaps it can do what you want. But none of the A cameras can do what you want. You can't see the exposure suggested by the camera and manually set it at the same time with any of the A cameras.

Thanks. In practice, how does this work? I might not be being clear. I guess what I want is a mode where I can set the aperture and shutter speed manually but see a meter telling me how far over or under I am. Basically a manual mode but with the meter working. I believe my OM40 has this.

During the day, for instance, I might want to expose on the nose, but at night I don't mind underexposing by a stop (unless I have matrix metering) because I know the scenes are often darker. Or I don't mind a darker image but would rather not go under the reciprocal of the focal length for shutter speed. Or I'd let snow go a stop hot knowing it's brighter. Then again maybe if there's good matrix metering I can just expose on the nose.

The T90 has 1/4000th shutter speed, which I really like, but otherwise looks like too much of a tank for my needs (family photos). I also had a Nikon F4 at some point and it was my least favorite film SLR. Felt too heavy and too heavily automated. I will be shooting almost exclusively with one lens and don't need a motor drive. On the other hand, 1/4000th shutter speed is valuable me.

It looks like the T70's finder only reads f-stop but not shutter speed? That's a deal killer for me. Is the T60 the same? I want to know shutter speed and aperture through the finder.

I hate to say this but this is more a request for a hipster camera than anything so what I need is fairly primitive. If I were shooting sports, etc. on film I would go with a 1-series EOS. I want something small and reliable with metering in manual mode and aperture and shutter speed information in the viewfinder.

AgX · Dec 7, 2019

With a "good meter" I assume you understand a kind of spot mertering.

T70 should be the cheapest of all models.
It got spot metering
But it is lacking
-) aperture priority auto-exposure
-) DOF-control

All requirements of yours are only fulfilled by the T90.

Policar · Dec 7, 2019

Does anything have matrix metering?

The T90 is just too big to drag around to family events, though I love the fast shutter speed.

What would I miss with the T60? Is the meter inoperative in manual mode? That seems insane to me if it is, maybe I am communicating unclearly. What I want is really basic. Basically a Canon version of an FM2. I want to be able to see the shutter speed and aperture through the finder and a meter showing me how many stops over or under I am.

What is DOF control?

abruzzi · Dec 7, 2019

I know nothing about Canon cameras, but a quick google suggests the T60 in manual mode uses the “match needle” type of exposure display, but with LEDs instead of needles. The match needle setup involved a list of all the shutter speed (or f stops) with the metering needle point at where the meter thinks the shutter speed should be set. A second needle points at where you do have it set. I’m not sure how exactly that translates to LEDs but a quick perusal of the manual should clarify.

* I’ve sometimes seem the “over/under” needle called match needle, which I don’t think is correct. Those are usually called “center the needle” or similar.

Paul Howell · Dec 7, 2019

None of the Canon FD mount bodies have Matrix metering which came along after the move to AF. How about a basic FTB, later model with full read out in the viewfinder, well built, all mechanical. Unless your wedded to a FD mount, Konica T3, Minolta 202, Pentax K, or a little more money MX? All work with hearing aid batteries.

Policar · Dec 7, 2019

Thanks, I am wedded to FD mount yes...

Will look into the FTB. I sort of like the idea of going with a T60 just to be a bit punk, but it does look like it lacks aperture information through the finder.

And makes sense re: the "match needle." I don't know my terminology but that works though of course seeing the aperture as well as shutter speed would be nice.

Chan Tran · Dec 7, 2019

Policar said:
Thanks. In practice, how does this work? I might not be being clear. I guess what I want is a mode where I can set the aperture and shutter speed manually but see a meter telling me how far over or under I am. Basically a manual mode but with the meter working. I believe my OM40 has this.

During the day, for instance, I might want to expose on the nose, but at night I don't mind underexposing by a stop (unless I have matrix metering) because I know the scenes are often darker. Or I don't mind a darker image but would rather not go under the reciprocal of the focal length for shutter speed. Or I'd let snow go a stop hot knowing it's brighter. Then again maybe if there's good matrix metering I can just expose on the nose.

The T90 has 1/4000th shutter speed, which I really like, but otherwise looks like too much of a tank for my needs (family photos). I also had a Nikon F4 at some point and it was my least favorite film SLR. Felt too heavy and too heavily automated. I will be shooting almost exclusively with one lens and don't need a motor drive. On the other hand, 1/4000th shutter speed is valuable me.

It looks like the T70's finder only reads f-stop but not shutter speed? That's a deal killer for me. Is the T60 the same? I want to know shutter speed and aperture through the finder.

I hate to say this but this is more a request for a hipster camera than anything so what I need is fairly primitive. If I were shooting sports, etc. on film I would go with a 1-series EOS. I want something small and reliable with metering in manual mode and aperture and shutter speed information in the viewfinder.

I am not familiar with the T series. Perhaps Canon fixed the manual exposure system in the T series. With the A series, there is really no Manual exposure mode. The AE-1 is always on Shutter Priority mode and you set the shutter speed you want and then read the recommended aperture in the viewfinder and then take the lens off A set the aperture you want. There is no actual aperture indication in the viewfinder. With the AE-1p and A-1 you do the same but set the camera on Tv (shutter priority in Canon speak).

bernard_L · Dec 7, 2019

Have a look at the Canon EF. "Almost" a F1. Name is misleading (it is an FD mount body) and makes it hard to find on the auction site among all EF/EOS stuff.

Classy, IMO. From Wikipedia: "The EF was built as an electronic version of Canon's top-of-the line F-1 camera. Because of this, the EF shares the F-1's rugged construction and tough metal body.".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_camera

AgX · Dec 7, 2019

Policar said:
Does anything have matrix metering?

What would I miss with the T60?

What is DOF control?

-) Matrix metering was introduced by Nikon just prior before Canon introduced their T90, so there was no Canon manul focus camera at all with such.
However to me the T90 offers the best manual TTL metering there was.

-) the T60 is a basic Canon FD cameras at all, it was not even made by Canon, does not fit in no range of theirs, but was toll produced by Cosina(?) for Canon to fill a low-price gap in their offer. Being never marketed here, I even had to pay a premium price when havng been offered a sample locally.
The only thing that fits your requirement is the aperture-priority autoexposure. And it is light weight, a requirement you added.
In contrast to its even more basic counterpart in the A-range, the AV-1, the T60 got a shutter speed selector thus yields manual control.

-) DOF-control means the ability of stopping down the aperture whilst looking through the finder, by this gaining (in-)sight on the depth-of-focus (DOF) the set aperture yields.

Paul Howell · Dec 7, 2019

The A1 might be too heavy for your use, it does have a full readout in the viewfinder, manual, shutter speed and aperture preferred, along with program. Built to a higher standard than the AE1. If needed takes a motor drive.

AgX · Dec 7, 2019

But no A-range camera has spot-metering, they all got a center-weight averaging metering.

Maybe the OP means by "good meter" the ability to control the metering in the finder. To my the best of that kind would be a zero-dial. But such then only makes really sense with spot metering...

Alan Gales · Dec 7, 2019

Policar said:
Hi everyone,

I've owned and used a Nikon F (with a broken meter) and an Olympus OM before but I am looking for my first Canon FD mount SLR.

I like to meter TTL so I want a camera with a good meter. I also want basic manual control and the ability to dial in exposure compensation or use a manual mode where I can see the suggested f-stop and then enter in my own choice instead. I prefer aperture priority mode to shutter speed priority mode.

Also something metal and stylish is nice, but I would rather not spend too much. I like the aesthetics of AE-1 program in black but boy have prices skyrocketed!

The Canon AE-1 Program is a manual exposure camera with two automatic exposure modes, Program and Shutter Priority. There is no Aperture priority mode.

I used to sell brand new Canon, Minolta, Nikon and Pentax 35mm cameras back in the 1980's. Minolta competed with Canon with the X-700. The Minolta included Program and Aperture Priority modes along with manual exposure. They also came in black instead of chrome finish.

I shot Contax back in the day but today I'd recommend looking at the Nikon FE-2 if you have to have old. Otherwise, I'd get a Nikon F100 if you don't need the "hipster" appeal. My stepson is a hipster and owns a Canon AE-1 so I do understand where you are coming from.

Dennis-B · Dec 7, 2019

There are only two real choices in the FD line - The A-1 or the T90.

I don't understand the reluctance to use either. The T90 was the last FD camera before the EOS series, and it had a number of features that were precursors to the EOS cameras. I've have one for several years, and it's performed extremely well. It's profile doesn't give the camera's ease of handling true justice. I use it with a 300TL and it's a near dream setup.

For something earlier, I like the A-1. It has multiple exposure modes, although it lacks more advanced than averaging metering. It has multiple exposure modes, and the profile is like that of the smaller Nikon's of the era. It packs a lot of versatility into a small form factor.

I'd avoid any of the AE-1 series, since they lack the versatility of the A-1 and T90.

cooltouch · Dec 8, 2019

There are very few Canon FD cameras where you can control both the aperture and the shutter speed and see in the viewfinder how your adjustments affect the meter. They are:

FTb (and FTbn)
Original F-1 and F-1n
New F-1
AT-1

The FTb and the original F-1 are all mechanical cameras. The battery powers the meter only. The original F-1's meter is exceptionally accurate. Both these cameras took the now discontinued 625 mercury battery. I use 675 hearing aid batteries instead. They work well.

The New F-1 has the most options for you. You can have Aperture preferred AE with the AE Finder FN, or Shutter Preferred if you attach a winder or motor drive. It has a hybrid electro-mechanical shutter. Speeds below 1/60 (I think?) are electronically controlled, all others are mechanical.

The AT-1 looks like an AE-1, and like the AE-1, it is totally battery dependent. I care for it the least of the above cameras, mostly because of its metering pattern, which is a vague centerweighted pattern, same as the AE-1. The other cameras have more precise metering patterns.

Ko.Fe. · Dec 8, 2019

I wouldn't stylish FTb(n).

AgX · Dec 9, 2019

If the OP can do with manual exposure only, the FTb would be the best choice.

(I expect same deviation of the two meter indicators in the finder at all positions to yield same stop-offset (as in zero-dials). Otherwise there would be no good exposure correction control, other than using the film-speed dial.)

blockend · Dec 9, 2019

The AT-1 is a manual exposure camera with electronic shutter, that takes modern batteries. Older cameras like the FT and FTb require mercury cells, an electronic adapter, intervention to camera circuits, or a separate light meter. The AV-1 is compact and fully automatic, though exposure can be overridden by the ISO dial. All the A-series Canons suffer from dry mirror bearings, a progressive squeak that eventually results in partial exposure. The home fix is a well aimed (and bent!) hypodermic needle filled with light oil, or a proper repair.
The T90 is a well equipped, large and heavy SLR prone to dirty and sticky shutter magnets. The temporary fix is to hit the camera to unstick them, the only cure is a professional fix. The T70 is a decent camera, AA powered and very noisy. The Canon F range are pro cameras, well made, with their own foibles and increasingly expensive for a good one. The T60 is a cheap Cosina built model for export only. It was designed to mop up remaining FD lenses in markets too price conscious to adopt the EOS range that emerged 3 years earlier.

SilverShutter · Dec 9, 2019

Is Minolta out of the thought? I believe the X-570/X-500 does all the things you ask for, plus it comes in black! Some great lenses too, an accurate meter with LEDs and suggested speed readouts plus actual readout.

AgX · Dec 9, 2019

The AT-1 has no "good" meter. With an averaging meter there is no much benefit from working in manual mode, you could do similar a bit slower with the AE-1 by doing a AE override with the film-speed setting, but then still got the benefit of a auto-exposure as alternative.

The idea of using manual mode is to "place" subject luminosities at the exposure scale. To do so one typically either needs some kind of spot metering or incident metering.

Policar · Dec 12, 2019

Thanks, everyone. A lot to think about! I might just go with the T60 after all until I know better what I want. It's like $25 or something, so that's easy.

The Minolta option sounds great except I'm married to lenses that I'm also planning to use for video (though I suppose we don't talk about this here...) but I briefly owned a CLE and while I couldn't get used to using a rangefinder it seems like the most perfect camera ever made.

The AT-1 and EF both sound interesting for my needs (which are modest) but do both take newer batteries? I'd rather not mess around with an off-voltage battery throwing off the light meter or hunting down old batteries, would rather buy something I can just go to a camera shop to replace.

Looking for my first FD mount SLR

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