Looking for cheap way to wash prints without ruining septic tank

[AgX]

To my understanding in this thread septic-tank and holding-tank are mixed up.

 

[RLangham]

To my understanding in this thread septic-tank and holding-tank are mixed up.

To what practical distinction? Both can get backed up, can't they?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Use a wash aid before washing your prints. You can get a good wash by transferring prints successively to trays of fresh water and letting them sit a bit in each. There's a lot of info about this method here somewhere, so I'll let you search.

You can also use an archival-type slot washer with a low water flow after using the wash-aid and rinsing the prints. This will minimize the amount of silver that makes it to the septic system. Whatever silver does make it gets changed quickly to non-reactive silver sulfide compounds. A low-water-flow washer will put less water into your septic system than a load of laundry. If you have a normal-size drain field, that can deal with showers, toilets flushing, washers and dishwashers running, etc. then it should be able to deal with some print washing. Heck, skip the shower on the day you wash prints if you're worried

FWIW, I printed extensively at a location that had a septic system for several years. I kept a trickle of water running through my holding tray for the entire session (4-7 hours usually) and washed on average of one or two batches of 12 prints per session. Never a problem.

Best,

Doremus

 

[darkroommike]

I have given this a lot of thought in the past and there are two separate obvious issue (obvious to me anyway).

1. Fixer laden first rinse of a print. Fixer has silver. Silver bad(?). I would hold that water and evaporate the solute so that I had just a few solids to take to the recycle center. I would do something similar with spent fixer. Neither goes into the septic tank.
2. Volume of water running through the septic tank. Nil issue. Unless you are a very, very productive type and just let the print washer run all the time a full day in the darkroom will not generate as much gray water as a couple of loads through the washing machine.

It's important, especially if your septic tank is old and full of "brown water", poorly designed, or if your drain field is undersized that you practice water conservation, such as the Ilford scheme. We should all be practicing water conservation in any case. Clean water don't grow on trees.

 

[AgX]

To what practical distinction? Both can get backed up, can't they?

A septic-tank is a biologic purifying system to finally let the cleaned waste-water into the environment. A holding-tank just holds the waste-water until a service provider pumps the effluent out and takes it to cleaning facility.
Maybe there is a intermediate option I do not understand...

 

[MattKing]

A septic-tank is a purifying system to finally let the cleaned waste-water into the environment. A holding-tank just holds the waste-water until a service provider pumps the effluent out and takes it to cleaning facility.
Maybe there is a intermediate option I do not understand...

Most septic tank systems I am aware of combine both a tank and a drainage field. The tank is probably not best described as a "holding" tank, but some may think of it as such.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Sorry, I think I do not understand the issue. Use a hypo clear chemical, then wash with plenty of water and let that water run into the yard. Why use the septic system at all?

 

[pentaxuser]

There might just be a difference in perception here, Matt between Europe and the U.S. A bit like the perception difference on Kodak prices


pentaxuser

 

[jpohara]

FWIW here's how I handle it (I'm on septic too): I do two-bath fixing. When a session is done, the fixer in the first bath goes into a 5-gallon bucket with some steel wool in it. The silver in the fixer plates out on that and it settles to the bottom of the bucket. I empty the bucket into the drain (less the sludge) when it's full (in any event at least a week after the last time I put fixer in it). As I recall there was a Kodak publication to the effect that the amount of trace silver from noncommercial darkrooms would not harm a septic system. (In any event, the people living here refresh the microbe supply regularly, so to speak.) I use a low-flow (Kostiner) print washer; similar slot-type washers are available. The point of using "hypo clearing agent" (e.g. a sodium sulfite bath) is to shorten the needed wash time; I skip that since I use an alkaline fixer (TF3) which is full of sulfite in the first place. I dump the used citric acid stop bath into the old developer and dump the result down the drain; I've never read anywhere that that was a problem. Supposedly it turns into something like fertilizer. What definitely does not go down the drain is old selenium toner or the crystals that I filter out of the working solution from time to time. That waste is allowed to evaporate in a separate container and disposed of as a hazardous solid at the Township. Yes, some selenium toner goes down the drain in the wash water but it's a de minimis amount (milligrams). The amount of water I use in an hour of washing like Doremus said is comparable to a shower or a couple of loads of laundry.

I've lived here 7 years printing a few times a month and never had an issue with the septic system. You can overdo anything of course but unless you're running a business out of your darkroom it's unlikely to be a problem. Note, I do eschew processes that involve hexavalent chromium (carbon, PtPd, gum bichromate etc) although there's probably a way to chemically reduce the chromate in the waste solutions to render it benign. Vaughn would know more about that. I'm just concerned because we have a high water table here and there's a lake a couple hundred feet from my house.

 

[jpohara]

Sorry, I think I do not understand the issue. Use a hypo clear chemical, then wash with plenty of water and let that water run into the yard. Why use the septic system at all?

If your local building code allows that, it should be no problem. However, I live in New Jersey where everything that is not mandatory is forbidden, so I chose to let the wash water and so on go into my septic.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

If your local building code allows that, it should be no problem. However, I live in New Jersey where everything that is not mandatory is forbidden, so I chose to let the wash water and so on go into my septic.

Oh, I'm in Mississippi; I am on municipal sewage in my city. But if not, I would put the wash water in a tub and pitch it out the back door.

 

[RLangham]

Oh, I'm in Mississippi; I am on municipal sewage in my city. But if not, I would put the wash water in a tub and pitch it out the back door.

I am also in Mississippi, on a farm with a septic tank and field.

 

[removed account4]

can you go to your public library and find out from them, or your local water/sewer department if you don't mind being a known quantity, what they permit for hobbyists .. chances are not using your fixer until it is completely exhausted, using steel wool in a bucket, not running a swimming pool of water through your darkroom sink and using RC prints ( which are most likely more archival than FB prints! and take NO water to wash by comparison ) you will be OK. look into household waste disposal day at your local landfill and as them what their requirements are... its free..

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I am also in Mississippi, on a farm with a septic tank and field.

Robert,

If you have a decent (i.e., normal) size septic system, you should have no problems with wash water as long as you don't overdo things. A low-flow slot-type archival washer doesn't use much water. If you use a wash-aid to reduce wash times and watch the clock, you'll use even less water.

Although Kodak does not recommend disposing of photo chemicals in septic systems, many do with no ill-effects to the system. The main concerns are groundwater contamination. Kodak's concern seems to be more with regulations than safety. Your local regulatory body may have guidelines for home darkrooms. FWIW, I used to dispose of developers and stop baths in the septic system. I'd likely not do this today, however.

Other ways to deal with your used chemistry: Developer and stop can be mixed together, collected and dumped into a regular sewer system (Kodak recommends this) or taken to the hazmat collection center. The fix should be taken somewhere for silver recovery. I collect my spent fix in a five-gallon container and take it to the local photo lab for recovery (yes, we still have one here!). If you can find a local lab or university darkroom in your area, they will likely be happy to take your used fixer off your hands since they get to keep the silver recovered. If you can't do that, then collect it and take it to the hazmat collection.

Selenium toner can be replenished and reused; it never needs to go down a drain.

Best,

Doremus

 

[RLangham]

Robert,

If you have a decent (i.e., normal) size septic system, you should have no problems with wash water as long as you don't overdo things.

Doremus

That seems to be the consensus. Not to seem impolite, though, but, uh, where did you get "Robert?" I like it, but it's not actually my name. I'm genuinely curious where that came from!

 

[jvo]

I've had multiple years experience with both conditions - no water in darkroom and on septic tank... Never a problem with either.
unless your doing commercial level quantities chemicals in septic tank was never enough to be a problem. no water in darkroom was at worst a bit inconvenient, though easily dealt with.


still no water or sink in darkroom and never been a problem.

 

[eli griggs]

I have no read nearly half the reply's, but, if it has no been mentioned, besides plating out the silver from your line, why no simply place solutions of chemicals and wash water, from washing, etc. in near standing water, in separate trays, and place these in one or two large black metal or plastic, barrels with lids/tops that will allow water heated by the sun, to evaporate the water out, leaving behind any chemistry in the barrel as sludge and later, hard cake?

Unless you're using hundreds of gallons a month, I suggest using the low water wash method, with a pair of barrels, one for dumping chemistry into with a seal-able 'in' waste water spout, and a simple rig of Schedule 40 or hose going into one top opening, with a separate evaporating hole cover, to keep the bugs out and breeding in your set-up.

Heck, you could even make a black painted soda can solar heater array to run super-heated air through or around the chemical barrel(if metal) and maybe do the same for the evaporating chamber barrel, to speed things along.

That little project would take half a lifetime of regular film and paper development with chemistry, to fill the first barrel, much less the second evaporating barrel.

Distillation of the water from the solutions seems a better goal than simply hauling the waste solutions off to keep it out of your septic field, year after year.

IMO.

 

[bernard_L]

you don't need running water for a final wash, just let the prints sit in fresh water and leech the fixer out there are threads here on this site ( wish I could find them ! ) regarding passive washing like this.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary supporting evidence; of which there is none: no personal verification (hypo check), no verifiable reference.

 

[Rick A]

After following , and reading, the posts I feel I need to chime in. Some(I think) are confusing dealing with spent fixer with dealing with residual fixer in the wash. Spent fixer should be dealt with separately, either disposed through a hazardous waste facility or recover the silver and dispose accordingly. Residual silver left in the minuscule amount of fixer in the wash , like Vaughn says, won;t affect anything. I've lived with septic systems and municipal waste systems, neither is affected by the wash water. The biggest threat to a septic system is too much water, and washing machines using far too much detergent.
For spent fixer, here's what I do. I pour it into a bucket with a steel wool pad and let it evaporate on the back porch. I then scrape the sludge out and bag it for the trash. If you use a silver recovery, send the sludge for smelting and get a few coins for your effort.
The key ingredient in fixer is ammonium thiosulfate, fertilizer, aka plant food. If you're that worried about pouring wash water with so very little fixer down the drain, water your flowers with it they'll love you for it.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...where did you get "Robert?" I like it, but it's not actually my name. I'm genuinely curious where that came from!

Doremus probably assumed you were this photographer, who's relatively well known in the large format community:

http://robertlangham.blogspot.com/​

Identifying your location as simply "USA" doesn't make things easy.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

Appreciate the good information. No one has yet mentioned sewage lagoons. Where I live in Missouri the soil is not porous enough for drain fields. I assume there really isn’t a functional difference for a photographers needs, but just guessing.

 

[RLangham]

Doremus probably assumed you were this photographer, who's relatively well known in the large format community:

http://robertlangham.blogspot.com/​

Identifying your location as simply "USA" doesn't make things easy.

Ah, well, I suppose it's flattering to be mistaken for one's better!

No, I am a different man, much less experienced and odds are much younger. I've mostly grown up with digital being the default if that tells you anything.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Doremus probably assumed you were this photographer, who's relatively well known in the large format community:

http://robertlangham.blogspot.com/​

Identifying your location as simply "USA" doesn't make things easy.

Oops! Sorry RLangham. I did indeed assume wrongly. Hopefully, the advice still helps, whatever your first name is

Doremus

 

[RLangham]

Oops! Sorry RLangham. I did indeed assume wrongly. Hopefully, the advice still helps, whatever your first name is

Doremus

Oh, as I said, i find it almost flattering. I looked at his portfolio and I think he's very good overall. It interests me that he uses a lot of muted contrast in his work. A lot of people doing that kind of LF work would go for very high contrast like some of Uncle Ansel's best pictures.

But no, I'm not him, and my LF work is extremely basic at the moment; the day a 21-year-old from Mississippi becomes a famous landscape photog in the LF world is the day pigs will soar on angelic wings!

I believe I had a great-grandfather on the battleship USS Alabama in WWII named Robert Langham, if I remember that name right. Probably a lowly sailor. Maybe that's his namesake and me and this younger Robert are third cousins or something. IdK.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Uncle Ansel...

Given your age, we'll forgive you. The correct appellation is "Saint Ansel."