Looking for Advice on Mamiya RB / RZ Purchase?

LennyOne · Feb 16, 2021

So I have decided to clarify what it is exactly that I'm looking to do here. I am torn between the RB67 and RZ67, but mostly because I am unsure of the idea that one may be tailored to the style of photography I most enjoy, maybe neither of them will be, however, I would most certainly appreciate any help when making this decision.

I suppose with regard to my requirements. I want to take general, day-to-day photos on my travels. I also adore taking photos of my friends when we are together, mostly at night time and I do a lot of nighttime photography on busy streets (when the pandemic climate wasn't so restrictive). I would usually use a 540ex with my EOS 5. I also take the odd photo of architecture (huge fan of Georgian buildings) and vintage car photos. Although to narrow it down I would like to do street and portrait with it. Hence why I was starting to look at a Pentax 67 as I heard it is a better lump to carry around, although it is still a lump, so I don't particularly mind which is heavier or clunkier as long as it is the optimal camera for my needs.

I suppose what I would really like to know, assuming bulk is no issue what would be the best option for Social Portraiture, Home Portraiture(I have no studio), Nightime street photography and some dabbling into architectural and automotive. I want to be able to integrate well with a flash or light system I can carry around with me (Please feel free to inform me of the best options!) Most of my free time is in the evenings and in Ireland we have such short dark days for a huge percentage of the years.

If you have any suggestion as to which body or system is most adaptable or versatile between daytime and nighttime photography I would really appreciate it. I already have a nice camera bag, wonderful tripod my grandfather left me and a handy little light meter which I also inherited from him. With regard to a portable light or flash system for on the go nighttime photography, all recommendations are considered and any advice on which system would be best applicable to the aforementioned although unclear intentions of use I have for my future purchase would all be greatly appreciated.

Sirius Glass · Feb 16, 2021

LennyOne said:
Thanks for the suggestion but Ireland's customs is crazy and ordering from America would be a death sentence to my already unhealthy student wallet! I think I will be considering Japan if anything!

Fly to the US, buy the camera, return home. When you go through Customs, if they ask, say, "This old thing? I have had it for years. It came with me to the US."

mshchem · Feb 16, 2021

I have a bunch of RZ67II stuff, 2 bodies, lenses, backs. For a while you could buy EX+ 120 backs from KEH for $125 USD. That time has passed. I remember when the RB came out in the 70's, I wanted one so bad. I bought my first RZ67II in 1999, new, cost $3000.00 with waist level finder. I bought a left hand grip I shot 1000's of pictures with just the standard 110mm f2.8 lens. If you want a eye level prism, forget carrying around the prism for the RZ67II it weighs a ton. I love those cameras.

I also have, being retired and no dependents, a few Hasselblad cameras and several lenses. If you are going to buy something well used, the blads, are, IMHO, the way to go. No bellows, easier to service etc.

I really like both systems. One other wrinkle, something to consider is a 645 camera. I shot a heck of a lot with a Bronica ETRSi, with the right hand grip and a simple no meter prism it handles almost like a 35mm.

I buy stuff from Japan, never had a problem. But you need to read the fine print. If there's not a lot of pictures, usually means they don't want you to see something.

MAP Camera in Japan has to be the biggest, I bought a Nikon D5 from them and it was spotless and perfect for a nice price.

If you can't lay your hands on the camera, you need to make sure you have an experienced seller.

narsuitus · Feb 16, 2021

LennyOne said:
I want to take general, day-to-day photos on my travels. I also adore taking photos of my friends when we are together, mostly at night time and I do a lot of nighttime photography on busy streets (when the pandemic climate wasn't so restrictive). I would usually use a 540ex with my EOS 5.

What lenses were you using with your Canon EOS 5 and 540ex flash?

Assuming you still have the lenses and flash, why not just buy a 35mm Canon film camera that uses the Canon lenses you still have?

What do you hope to accomplish that you were unable to do with the EOS 5 system you had?

Alan Gales · Feb 17, 2021

I used to own an RZ67 and three lenses, 50mm ULD, 110mm and 180mm. I loved the camera and the optics were great. I sold it all to finance my large format gear.

My best piece of advice whether buying an RZ or RB would be to purchase the "L" grip. The grip makes the camera so much more enjoyable to shoot hand held.

You say you want to use this camera for travel. The cameras are large and heavy and so are the lenses. Just be aware of this. People shoot them hand held all the time but carrying them around for a full day of sightseeing would not be fun.

LennyOne · Feb 17, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Fly to the US, buy the camera, return home. When you go through Customs, if they ask, say, "This old thing? I have had it for years. It came with me to the US."

Unfortunately, I won't be in the US anytime soon but that is a great suggestion either way!

LennyOne · Feb 17, 2021

narsuitus said:
What lenses were you using with your Canon EOS 5 and 540ex flash?

Assuming you still have the lenses and flash, why not just buy a 35mm Canon film camera that uses the Canon lenses you still have?

What do you hope to accomplish that you were unable to do with the EOS 5 system you had?

I don't know if I made it seem like I no longer have the Eos 5, but I do.
With the EOS 5 I have been using Canon 50mm F1.4 and a Canon 24-105 F/4L II. I still own this equipment and use it regularly but since having started to use an old medium format camera I would like to explore medium format to a further extent.
I found my grandfathers old Weltaflex TLR and started shooting medium format film in the last year, I thoroughly enjoy the format and think it produces some amazing results!

LennyOne · Feb 17, 2021

Alan Gales said:
I used to own an RZ67 and three lenses, 50mm ULD, 110mm and 180mm. I loved the camera and the optics were great. I sold it all to finance my large format gear.

My best piece of advice whether buying an RZ or RB would be to purchase the "L" grip. The grip makes the camera so much more enjoyable to shoot hand held.

You say you want to use this camera for travel. The cameras are large and heavy and so are the lenses. Just be aware of this. People shoot them hand held all the time but carrying them around for a full day of sightseeing would not be fun.

Sorry, I should have been clearer, I meant on my daily travels, I walk around my home city most evenings and explore. Thank you very much for the suggestion with regard to the grip, I want to build a set up which will be interchangeable and adaptable to my needs. I Will still carry my EOS 5 for any long travel periods but I am confident I would like the option of bringing a larger body such as the RB/RZ series with me. I realise it is heavy but I'm only 24 and have total confidence in my ability to lug something heavy around such that I can delve further into my exploration of medium format.

LennyOne · Feb 17, 2021

mshchem said:
I have a bunch of RZ67II stuff, 2 bodies, lenses, backs. For a while you could buy EX+ 120 backs from KEH for $125 USD. That time has passed. I remember when the RB came out in the 70's, I wanted one so bad. I bought my first RZ67II in 1999, new, cost $3000.00 with waist level finder. I bought a left hand grip I shot 1000's of pictures with just the standard 110mm f2.8 lens. If you want a eye level prism, forget carrying around the prism for the RZ67II it weighs a ton. I love those cameras.

I also have, being retired and no dependents, a few Hasselblad cameras and several lenses. If you are going to buy something well used, the blads, are, IMHO, the way to go. No bellows, easier to service etc.

I really like both systems. One other wrinkle, something to consider is a 645 camera. I shot a heck of a lot with a Bronica ETRSi, with the right hand grip and a simple no meter prism it handles almost like a 35mm.

I buy stuff from Japan, never had a problem. But you need to read the fine print. If there's not a lot of pictures, usually means they don't want you to see something.

MAP Camera in Japan has to be the biggest, I bought a Nikon D5 from them and it was spotless and perfect for a nice price.

If you can't lay your hands on the camera, you need to make sure you have an experienced seller.

Thank you very much for all of the info, very much appreciated. I never knew about the weight of the RZ prism. I have been looking at the Mamiya645 although I feel like my heart lies more so akin to the 6x7 dimensions achievable with the larger bodies. I also really like the rotatable back for quickly changing to portrait or landscape available for RB/RZ series. From what I have read that is not an option for the mamiya645.

awty · Feb 17, 2021

I have and use a RZ, they are big and heavy and make everyone nervous, including myself. I have used it for walking the streets, but to be honest its not really good for this application. If you want medium format, would be belter to get something more compact, like a TLR or rangefinder, or you could get a Holga and get crafty, money saved can be spent on film and beer......
If you have specific project then the RZ has wonderful lenses to use, but I wouldn't consider it a good camera for walking around doing random shots, which I have done myself.
Also be warned these cameras were mostly used professionally and a lot of them are warn out. Hard to get parts for and hard to find someone who can repair.

mshchem · Feb 17, 2021

LennyOne said:
Thank you very much for all of the info, very much appreciated. I never knew about the weight of the RZ prism. I have been looking at the Mamiya645 although I feel like my heart lies more so akin to the 6x7 dimensions achievable with the larger bodies. I also really like the rotatable back for quickly changing to portrait or landscape available for RB/RZ series. From what I have read that is not an option for the mamiya645.

The rotating back is very good. Especially if you are using waist level finder or simply hand held. Instead of a prism consider a chimney finder, I have one that's an ancient RB model, most RB finders fit both RZ models. And you can use RB lenses on the RZ.

btaylor · Feb 17, 2021

Interesting- I have a young co-worker about LennyOne’s age and I brought both my RZ67 kit along with a Rolleiflex 3.5f for him to try out. He did not relate to the Rollei at all, but loved the RZ. I am old and I much prefer using the TLR when walking around. The RZ is much more versatile and I love it too- but it’s a brick! I am thinking it might be at least partly an age thing with 30’s-‘50’s tech just feeling too foreign to the younger set.
I’m sure there are plenty of worn out RZs out there, but the one I bought here on Apug a couple of years ago is pretty much mint- so they are out there, and the lenses I have bought mostly from Japan have been darn close to mint as well (and so cheap! Compare them to late model Hasselblad glass).

btaylor · Feb 17, 2021

mshchem said:
The rotating back is very good. Especially if you are using waist level finder or simply hand held. Instead of a prism consider a chimney finder, I have one that's an ancient RB model, most RB finders fit both RZ models. And you can use RB lenses on the RZ.

One of the nice features of the RZ is that when the magnifier pops up it does create something similar to a chimney finder.

awty · Feb 17, 2021

mshchem said:
And you can use RB lenses on the RZ.

Never new that, does the camera still fire the lens, or do you need to fire the lens separately?

MattKing · Feb 18, 2021

The RZ camera fires the RB lens. The shutter speed is set on the lens, not on the camera.
It is advisable, if not strictly necessary, to have the throat adapter in place.
RZ lenses cannot be used on RB bodies.

mshchem · Feb 18, 2021

btaylor said:
One of the nice features of the RZ is that when the magnifier pops up it does create something similar to a chimney finder.

Agree 100%. The chimney finder does have adjustable diopter/magnifier which can come in handy

Donald Qualls · Feb 18, 2021

mshchem said:
Agree 100%. The chimney finder does have adjustable diopter/magnifier which can come in handy

Plus, one version of the RB67 chimney has a meter. It reads off the focusing screen (i.e. through the lens), so automatically compensates for bellows factor, and has a fairly small (though unavoidably central) spot. Mine has the CdS cell; I adapted a 675 hearing aid battery for it, but I'll probably pick up a regulating adapter over time. Since a meter is the one kind of electronics I prefer my cameras to have, it's very good addition to the otherwise battery-free RB.

Alan Edward Klein · Feb 18, 2021

I've owned an RB67 for thirty years. I always use it on my landscape shot on a tripod. But this guy likes to walk around with it. He also owns an RZ67 so you could look for his videos on Youtube as well.

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 18, 2021

I used to shoot with an RB, but replaced it with an RZ. The reason was that my RB needed repairs but several repair services I went to all said that it was not cost-effective to repair it, if they would even service it at all. Ditto that for backs for the RB. I also did not like the combination of having to manually re-cock the shutter/body and advance the film manually as separate actions. The "fix" for it was to get one of the motorized backs, but that then added a LOT of weight (four AA batteries plus the motor in the back). I now shoot with an RZ - the only caveat with it is keep a spare battery in the bag for it because it will get wonky when the battery gets low. But I have used it for street shooting when traveling - I took it with me to Mexico City and walked around with it. I also shot some of the March For Our Lives in DC a few years ago to protest gun violence. The protest shots were done with the 65mm lens.

This shot was with the 50mm, hand-held, looking up at the interior of the dome of the Palacio De Bellas Artes in Mexico City. Exposure was about 1/15th of a second.

This was shot with the 180 (yes, I was nuts enough to bring the 180 with me in my bag, but at that time I only had the 50, 110 and 180 lenses!)

So, anyway, you can see that it travels well, and the bulk and weight may actually prove to be an advantage when hand-holding because they help dampen movement and vibration. The closing shot was on a tripod, I'm almost certain - I've got steady hands, but I don't think I'm THAT steady. This was from the 110 f2.8 lens. Another reason to get the RZ - if you have only one lens for the camera, THAT lens is the reason to get the RZ rather than the RB. The 110 was new to the RZ. If someone held a gun to my head and said "pick one and only one lens to keep for your RZ" I would have no hesitation in choosing the 110.

mshchem · Feb 18, 2021

I totally agree about the 110 2.8. This was all I had for several years. Next was a 180mm for portrait work, then 65mm. I have the left hand grip for both of my bodies. For a camera that often spends it's life on a tripod, mine didn't.

k.hendrik · Feb 18, 2021

fine camera for portrait & still

LennyOne · Feb 18, 2021

btaylor said:
Interesting- I have a young co-worker about LennyOne’s age and I brought both my RZ67 kit along with a Rolleiflex 3.5f for him to try out. He did not relate to the Rollei at all, but loved the RZ. I am old and I much prefer using the TLR when walking around. The RZ is much more versatile and I love it too- but it’s a brick! I am thinking it might be at least partly an age thing with 30’s-‘50’s tech just feeling too foreign to the younger set.
I’m sure there are plenty of worn out RZs out there, but the one I bought here on Apug a couple of years ago is pretty much mint- so they are out there, and the lenses I have bought mostly from Japan have been darn close to mint as well (and so cheap! Compare them to late model Hasselblad glass).

I do like the experience of having used a TLR, it's just that I want to venture further and I suppose being young I have more ambition than I do age with regard to my ability to lug such a brick around!
I am finding the issue of repairs quite daunting!

LennyOne · Feb 18, 2021

k.hendrik said:
View attachment 266862 View attachment 266863
fine camera for portrait & still

These are absolutely gorgeous and I have just replied to your PM, thank you!

LennyOne · Feb 18, 2021

mshchem said:
I totally agree about the 110 2.8. This was all I had for several years. Next was a 180mm for portrait work, then 65mm. I have the left hand grip for both of my bodies. For a camera that often spends it's life on a tripod, mine didn't.

Thanks for the info, I was wondering what three lenses should be at the top of my list! What did you use the 65mm for? Also, I suppose everyone has their own experiences and opinions on things and I'm just trying to create some for myself. I don't know why but I'm exceptionally optimistic of my handheld use of such a brick, I carry A tripod with me most days even when just using my EOS 5!

LennyOne · Feb 18, 2021

TheFlyingCamera said:
I used to shoot with an RB, but replaced it with an RZ. The reason was that my RB needed repairs but several repair services I went to all said that it was not cost-effective to repair it, if they would even service it at all. Ditto that for backs for the RB. I also did not like the combination of having to manually re-cock the shutter/body and advance the film manually as separate actions. The "fix" for it was to get one of the motorized backs, but that then added a LOT of weight (four AA batteries plus the motor in the back). I now shoot with an RZ - the only caveat with it is keep a spare battery in the bag for it because it will get wonky when the battery gets low. But I have used it for street shooting when traveling - I took it with me to Mexico City and walked around with it. I also shot some of the March For Our Lives in DC a few years ago to protest gun violence. The protest shots were done with the 65mm lens.

This shot was with the 50mm, hand-held, looking up at the interior of the dome of the Palacio De Bellas Artes in Mexico City. Exposure was about 1/15th of a second.

This was shot with the 180 (yes, I was nuts enough to bring the 180 with me in my bag, but at that time I only had the 50, 110 and 180 lenses!)

So, anyway, you can see that it travels well, and the bulk and weight may actually prove to be an advantage when hand-holding because they help dampen movement and vibration. The closing shot was on a tripod, I'm almost certain - I've got steady hands, but I don't think I'm THAT steady. This was from the 110 f2.8 lens. Another reason to get the RZ - if you have only one lens for the camera, THAT lens is the reason to get the RZ rather than the RB. The 110 was new to the RZ. If someone held a gun to my head and said "pick one and only one lens to keep for your RZ" I would have no hesitation in choosing the 110.

Firstly thank you so much, I feel like your response alone has certainly made the most impact on my incredible indecisive nature! Would you say it is worth buying the PRO II or would one of the earlier models suffice? Just that the market for a PRO II seems very inflated at the minute! Also, I love the 110mm lens from what I've looked at, however, supposedly the 127mm for the RB67 is equally as satisfying to some! I would love to hear your personal thoughts on this, also the photo of the dog has just made my day, I have a million photos of peoples dogs on 35mm, they usually tend to be my favourite thing to shoot!

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