I have not ordered from Japan so I can say nothing positive nor negative about them. The word on the street appears to be that with care it is a good safe place to buy.
I agree with Sirius partly. I no longer find KEH all that conservative in their ratings (they used to be), but it doesn't really matter because their return policy is outstanding. Like Donald, I haven't really seen a lot of RB/RZ stuff on KEH lately.
I had a good experience with a Japanese seller. I bought a kit. They sent one wrong item, but shipped out the right thing immediately once I contacted them.
As far as RB vs RZ, I am of the mechanical persuasion. The RB67 is just wonderful. If you could find one with a newer film back that doesn't need light seals, all the better. But that will probably cost you.
I've owned an RB67 Pro S, RB67 Pro SD, RZ67 Pro, and RZ67 Pro II. I prefer the mechanical RB but have nothing against the RZ that being said.
If you get an RB67 Pro that is the first model and it does not have interlocks to keep you from double exposing or firing the shutter with the dark slide in.
The RB67 Pro S has interlocks so that you cannot fire the body with the darkslide inserted and you cannot double expose unintentionally both the Pro and Pro S use foam seals in the back, in my experience it doesn't seem to matter if the seels between the body and back go bad but if the seals in the back fail you will get light leaks. I have never used the early odd shaped RB lenses just the later C and K/L lenses.
The RB67 Pro SD added the new K/L lenses I prefer the 90mm and 127mm in both the C and K/L configuration, the 50mm is also great. The Pro SD backs do not have foam seals so you don't have to worry about replacing those they also have a slot to store the dark slide on the back as opposed to the side of the camera body, I always used a Pro SD back on my Pro S. If I remember correctly the K/L lenses can be used on the earlier Pro and Pro S bodies but to use them on the Pro SD you need a trim ring that originally came with the lens. I believe it's only cosmetic and covers a gap between the rear of the lens and front of the body on the Pro SD.
If going RB I would suggest a Pro SD or a Pro S with a Pro SD back and the 90mm or 127mm for regular shooting, get a 50mm for the wide shots and if you want to do macro work with the 90mm or 127mm grab the #1 and #2 extension tubes. The 50mm will close focus to about 1.5" without the extension tubes and is therefore incompatible with them.
The RZ67 Pro is the first model RZ and also has no foam light seals in the back. The advantages of the Pro II are some improvements to the electronics, half step shutter speeds, and a fine focus knob. The RZ67 Pro IID has and integrated interface for communicating with digital backs.
If I were going with an RZ67 today I'd get a plain Pro with a 110mm F=2.8, and the 50mm. A few years ago when a Pro was $350 and the Pro II was $500 I'd say spend the extra on a Pro II for the fine focus and half stop shutter speeds. But now that Pro models are $1000 and Pro II's can go for $1800-$2000 I'd recommend the Pro over the Pro II unless you really need half stop shutter speeds and the fine focus knob.
Here's some examples of how much prices have increased on RB's and RZ's recently I don't know where they're going but hopefully someday they come back down. I'd really like to have another RB67 with the 90mm someday. It was my main camera for almost two years, I carried it everywhere and shot it handheld 95% of the time.
I bought my RB67 Pro S with a 120 Pro SD back and 90mm C lens in 2013 for $300, I've seen this kit going for over $600 lately.
I bought my RB67 Pro SD a year later with the same setup but a K/L 90mm for $450, I've seen these going for $800-$1000 recently.
I bought my RZ67 Pro with 120 back and 110/2.8 in 2016 for $300, this seems to be a $1000 kit nowadays with the 110/2.8 that was $150 4 years ago now going for $600-$700 alone.
and finally I got my RZ67 Pro II with a 120 back and 110/2.8 in 2019 for $850, these seem to go for $1800-$2000 nowadays.
The Pro IID? I have no idea the last one I saw was in 2015 ish and the body alone was $2100!
If you were going to recommend three lenses for street photography, mostly nightlife, what would you consider?
The lack of need to replace light seals is one good reason to go with the Rz Pro II, IMHO.
The lack of need to replace light seals is one good reason to go with the Rz Pro II, IMHO.
Technically, it is an 8x7.5 body, because if you have the correct rotating adapter, the 6x8 back permits shooting that format - fully in portrait orientation, and with a little bit of vignetting in landscape orientation.it's a 7x7 body (due to the revolving 6x7 back)
Technically, it is an 8x7.5 body, because if you have the correct rotating adapter, the 6x8 back permits shooting that format - fully in portrait orientation, and with a little bit of vignetting in landscape orientation.
It will - just get the right rotating adapter. And there are a couple of different backs, which include options to run off AA batteries.My Pro S body won't do it
The 6x8 back rabbit hole is interesting. But the real reason I posted about it was to help people understand why the RB67 is as big as it is, especially compared to something like a Bronica GS-1.
The original RZ Pro backs like the RB67 Pro SD backs do not have foam light seals, the seal is integral with the back in the way the door overlaps the insert when closed.
Or the RB67Pro SD, actually just the backs will cover that, but still last model is best of all RBsThe lack of need to replace light seals is one good reason to go with the Rz Pro II, IMHO.
The original RZ6x7 Pro film back does have foam light seals. I've replaced a few before switching to the Pro II backs which don't have the foam seals.
I've owned both the RZ Pro and still own the RZ Pro II. If you decide to go with the RZ, then the Pro would be cheaper and it will accept all of the Pro II components like the Pro II film back. Prices are crazy right now.
I've also purchased most of my kit from Japan on eBay because almost all of the US sellers have been out of stock.
1980 backs (RB or RZ) relied on foam.If I remember right the RB67 Pro SD came out in 1990, the RZ67 Pro in 1980, but the RZ67 Pro II didn’t come about until after the RB67 Pro SD. So if they had the ability to make RB backs without seals why wouldn’t they upgrade the RZ backs as well?
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-all-items-in-mint-state.181254/#post-2375978Looking to buy my first proper medium format body, I have some TLR's and other antique gizmos like a Bencini Comet. I wanted to purchase myself a Mamiya RB or RZ Body, I would prefer to pick up an RZ if the price is right, although I am equally as content using the fully mechanical counterpart. I had a scroll through the classified and am sorting out a subscription so I may post myself in the WTB section. Although I had wondered if anyone had any suggestions on where I might find some online. eBay can be quite daunting when buying from japan and there are no second-hand analogue stores where I live, only digital, so the likelihood of getting to view the item before the purchase is very low. I have checked locally and nationally for one but none have presented themselves just yet. I suppose what I would like to know are the following:
1: Does anyone have any places online they would recommend to shop around for an RB or RZ body, reputable websites and marketplaces?
2: Does anyone know if it is worth investing in the Pro II if purchasing the RZ, I have looked over the benefits and for portrait and nighttime street photography I don't think it justifies the price hike for the latest model.
Thanks in advance,
Best,
Lenny
The only problem I had buying an RB lens from Japan was language. It was nearly impossible to communicate with the seller, misunderstandings developed about shipping and he took it out on me by never leaving me feedback even though I paid promptly. Misunderstanding developed because he told me one thing but actually did another, and what he did was what he was supposed to do and what I wanted him to do. But he inadvertently said he he did something else. It was messy.
It wouldn't stop me from buying from Japan again, but I might communicate with the seller in advance next time to make sure we CAN communicate.
I've made a few purchases from Japanese sellers and have been very happy with them; one was a relatively expensive lens for a Pentax 67 (the 300mm IF/ED). Look at the pictures very closely as the Japanese sellers seem to document everything with good photos.
I went for the RB67 system because it is mechanical. I do not dislike electronics nor electronically controlled cameras, but I believe fully mechanical cameras have a better chance for repair and service long after the manufacturer has ceased support.
I suggest that you consider buying from KEH because of they are very conservative about their ratings and you have six months to return, replace or have repaired policy. I have been buying cameras and lenses from them for over a decade.
The only problem with KEH is that the older the system gets, the less likely they are to have any of them. The RB67 is coming on fifty years old now, for the original Pro model, and even the Pro SD ended production close to thirty years ago. That said, when I have bought items from them (M42 lenses, for instance) I've been very happy with my purchases.
Yes you are correct. Of course in that case he could just jump to Hasselblad since that is where he will end up anyway, but far be it from me to jump in and start him on that path this early.
Ask me if you need translating for next time.
Then WHY every time anyone aksked about another brand you feel this SILLY need????? I have been an avid happy user of another brand (then yours) for years and don't feel cheated at all.
I agree with Sirius partly. I no longer find KEH all that conservative in their ratings (they used to be), but it doesn't really matter because their return policy is outstanding. Like Donald, I haven't really seen a lot of RB/RZ stuff on KEH lately.
I had a good experience with a Japanese seller. I bought a kit. They sent one wrong item, but shipped out the right thing immediately once I contacted them.
As far as RB vs RZ, I am of the mechanical persuasion. The RB67 is just wonderful. If you could find one with a newer film back that doesn't need light seals, all the better. But that will probably cost you.
I bought a bunch of bodies, lenses that included an RZ67, and about three RB67 bodies, a bunch of lenses, at least one prism, some film backs, etc. (<$800 on Craigslist.) I was set to keep the RZ and sell the rest, and our local photographic repair center owner strongly advised me to go RB67 versus RZ67 for reliability reasons. So, I did.
Unfortunately, I never use it much, as I almost always photograph using a view camera. I finally sold it all last year.
I recently took the 6x7 plunge and went with a Bronica GS-1 (out of Japan) with the 65mm and 100mm lenses. It's a very capable camera, although it does require a battery to operate. Lenses are sharp. Respecting ebay/Japan purchases, I found that the sellers are pretty honest on condition, just make sure you read the description carefully, because the 'issues' a product has are surrounded with the 'non-issues'. I'm happy I went this route.
I've owned an RB67 Pro S, RB67 Pro SD, RZ67 Pro, and RZ67 Pro II. I prefer the mechanical RB but have nothing against the RZ that being said.
If you get an RB67 Pro that is the first model and it does not have interlocks to keep you from double exposing or firing the shutter with the dark slide in.
The RB67 Pro S has interlocks so that you cannot fire the body with the darkslide inserted and you cannot double expose unintentionally both the Pro and Pro S use foam seals in the back, in my experience it doesn't seem to matter if the seels between the body and back go bad but if the seals in the back fail you will get light leaks. I have never used the early odd shaped RB lenses just the later C and K/L lenses.
The RB67 Pro SD added the new K/L lenses I prefer the 90mm and 127mm in both the C and K/L configuration, the 50mm is also great. The Pro SD backs do not have foam seals so you don't have to worry about replacing those they also have a slot to store the dark slide on the back as opposed to the side of the camera body, I always used a Pro SD back on my Pro S. If I remember correctly the K/L lenses can be used on the earlier Pro and Pro S bodies but to use them on the Pro SD you need a trim ring that originally came with the lens. I believe it's only cosmetic and covers a gap between the rear of the lens and front of the body on the Pro SD.
If going RB I would suggest a Pro SD or a Pro S with a Pro SD back and the 90mm or 127mm for regular shooting, get a 50mm for the wide shots and if you want to do macro work with the 90mm or 127mm grab the #1 and #2 extension tubes. The 50mm will close focus to about 1.5" without the extension tubes and is therefore incompatible with them.
The RZ67 Pro is the first model RZ and also has no foam light seals in the back. The advantages of the Pro II are some improvements to the electronics, half step shutter speeds, and a fine focus knob. The RZ67 Pro IID has and integrated interface for communicating with digital backs.
If I were going with an RZ67 today I'd get a plain Pro with a 110mm F=2.8, and the 50mm. A few years ago when a Pro was $350 and the Pro II was $500 I'd say spend the extra on a Pro II for the fine focus and half stop shutter speeds. But now that Pro models are $1000 and Pro II's can go for $1800-$2000 I'd recommend the Pro over the Pro II unless you really need half stop shutter speeds and the fine focus knob.
Here's some examples of how much prices have increased on RB's and RZ's recently I don't know where they're going but hopefully someday they come back down. I'd really like to have another RB67 with the 90mm someday. It was my main camera for almost two years, I carried it everywhere and shot it handheld 95% of the time.
I bought my RB67 Pro S with a 120 Pro SD back and 90mm C lens in 2013 for $300, I've seen this kit going for over $600 lately.
I bought my RB67 Pro SD a year later with the same setup but a K/L 90mm for $450, I've seen these going for $800-$1000 recently.
I bought my RZ67 Pro with 120 back and 110/2.8 in 2016 for $300, this seems to be a $1000 kit nowadays with the 110/2.8 that was $150 4 years ago now going for $600-$700 alone.
and finally I got my RZ67 Pro II with a 120 back and 110/2.8 in 2019 for $850, these seem to go for $1800-$2000 nowadays.
The Pro IID? I have no idea the last one I saw was in 2015 ish and the body alone was $2100!
I have not ordered from Japan so I can say nothing positive nor negative about them. The word on the street appears to be that with care it is a good safe place to buy.
Very good summary. Thank you.
The older film backs that use light seals instead of light traps, will leak light on RB67 or RZ67 bodies.
The original RB67 bodies used light seals that leak as they age. Instead of light seals, the newer bodies used light traps like the RZ. I bought an original RB body at a ridiculously low price with the knowledge that the seals would need to be replaced.
Technically, it is an 8x7.5 body, because if you have the correct rotating adapter, the 6x8 back permits shooting that format - fully in portrait orientation, and with a little bit of vignetting in landscape orientation.
I hate these camera threads. Now I want an RZ.
The original RZ6x7 Pro film back does have foam light seals. I've replaced a few before switching to the Pro II backs which don't have the foam seals.
I've owned both the RZ Pro and still own the RZ Pro II. If you decide to go with the RZ, then the Pro would be cheaper and it will accept all of the Pro II components like the Pro II film back. Prices are crazy right now.
I've also purchased most of my kit from Japan on eBay because almost all of the US sellers have been out of stock.
I purchased the Pro II simply because it is "newer". I would recommend keeping an eye on Robertscamera. They have an ebay store and are located in the US. I have had good experiences with them in the past. The only downside is they tend to break apart kits and list in pieces. The last Mamiya body I got from them I had to buy as the body, grip, prism finder, and back all separately. You just have to watch their inventory and be the first one to grab the pieces.
I have also purchased from Japan and would do so again. Just look at the pictures very carefully. Do not pay any attention to their "rating" system. Look for keywords in the description that point out any flaws.
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