Looking for a panchromatic film and developer combination for high contrast

[JPJackson]

I need to generate a G bar of greater than 1.3. This is needed to enlarge medium format negatives onto panchromatic film to print in alternative processes (ie. new cyanotype and palladium).

Paper developer generated great density but the contrast is not getting to where i need it.

Thanks,
J

 

[Vaughn]

In the past I would have said Kodak Copy Film...wonderful stiff. I have used Ilford's present Copy Film, but only in-camera. That combined with their PQ Universal Developer at 1:9 would be my starting point. But I would also give that developer and FP4+ a try...with that combo with in-camera negatives I can get a density range around 3.0 if the scene brightness range is also wide.

 

[JPJackson]

In the past I would have said Kodak Copy Film...wonderful stiff. I have used Ilford's present Copy Film, but only in-camera. That combined with their PQ Universal Developer at 1:9 would be my starting point. But I would also give that developer and FP4+ a try...with that combo with in-camera negatives I can get a density range around 3.0 if the scene brightness range is also wide.

Thanks Vaughn. IPQU 1:9 with FP4 and D100 both produce plenty of density but the actual contrast gradient is about 1.1.
Dektol gave similar results. HC110A got me 1.15. Just ran a test with D-11 and will plot it in the morning. Guess copy film might be the way; if it is available in 5x7 and 8x10. Phil Davis wrote an article in 1992 about this and he used Tmx 100 and a PQ paper developer. His charts show G of up to 1.6. So far I have failed to get above 1.2.

 

[Vaughn]

"Ships tomorrow" according to their site.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/24606-REG/Ilford_1813203_Ortho_Plus_8x10_B_W.html

 

[Vaughn]

Another option is Rollei's Ortho film...a hundred bucks more per 25 sheets than the Ilford, though.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/3731017-Rollei-Ortho-25-ISO-8x10-25-Sheets

Again, I have only used it in-camera (quite a few years ago) but has potential for you. It comes in 5x7 also.

I do not know the definition of G bar, so I do not know how it relates to the density range of a negative. A quick google just told me that: "GBAR will measure the effect of gravity on antihydrogen atoms." Not the proper definition, I suppose.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Ilford's Phenisol developer is the stuff you want - Phenisol & Ortho+ can hit a g-bar of 1.8 according to Ilford's specs. Failing that, Kodak D-8 might work. That said, I can't see how you're struggling to build contrast - the normal problem is controlling it when making enlarged negs - to the point of using unsharp masks etc.

 

[DREW WILEY]

How big do you need the film? T-Max films are commonly available up to 8x10 and will deliver a high gamma in TMax RS developer - far better control than a paper
developer and Ortho-litho film, though that tends to be a much more affordable option. But you don't want your previous interpositive to have high contrast. It should be slightly overexposed and underdeveloped.

 

[chrisaisenbrey]

I solved the problem by making two interpositives and overlay them to make the enlarged negative. This simple trick doubles the contrast. Of cause it needs more film and depends on precise registering.

 

[Vaughn]

According to their info, Ilford recommends their PQ Universal developer with their Ortho film. However, it gives time/temps for that combo only up to a Gbar of 1.0, so it might not stretch out to meet the OP requirements. It certainly does in the landscape, but I imagine one may not get as wide a contrast range when copying B&W negatives (which I asume were exposed and developed for silver printing).

Ilford does recommend Phenisol developer for the highest contrast from their Ortho Plus film. I'll have to check it out myself.

 

[darkroommike]

I'll assume your starting point is a color negative and hence the need for a panchromatic negative material to make an interpositive. If that's your road you actually have two opportunities to increase contrast, at the interpositive stage and again when you make the final internegative, two opportunities to bump contrast rather than one.

 

[JPJackson]

According to their info, Ilford recommends their PQ Universal developer with their Ortho film. However, it gives time/temps for that combo only up to a Gbar of 1.0, so it might not stretch out to meet the OP requirements. It certainly does in the landscape, but I imagine one may not get as wide a contrast range when copying B&W negatives (which I asume were exposed and developed for silver printing).

Ilford does recommend Phenisol developer for the highest contrast from their Ortho Plus film. I'll have to check it out myself.

Thanks Vaughn,
The D-11 @ 73.5F provided a G = 1.3 with D100.

The Ortho+ has arrived and i have IPQU on hand. Will run tests and let you know how it turns out.
In Ilford's data they used 68F for development temps. I plan to increase it to 75F. Will also test D11 with it as it gave the best results to date.

 

[JPJackson]

I'll assume your starting point is a color negative and hence the need for a panchromatic negative material to make an interpositive. If that's your road you actually have two opportunities to increase contrast, at the interpositive stage and again when you make the final internegative, two opportunities to bump contrast rather than one.

I'm starting with 120mm B&W negatives developed for silver and want to enlarge them to print palladium and new cyanotype which require a DR of about 1.8. So it is a large increase in contrast. The contrast increase factor is about 1.6, so a G of 1.3 for both the interpositive and the enlarged negative will get me there. The Ortho+ is less expensive than the FP4 or Delta 100 and supposed to be excellent for copy work.
Will let you know. Thank you for your input!

 

[JPJackson]

How big do you need the film? T-Max films are commonly available up to 8x10 and will deliver a high gamma in TMax RS developer - far better control than a paper
developer and Ortho-litho film, though that tends to be a much more affordable option. But you don't want your previous interpositive to have high contrast. It should be slightly overexposed and underdeveloped.

Thanks for the reply.
8x10 will work fine for my printing. Splitting the contrast increase required between the interpositive and enlarged negative seems the way to go. If a gamma of 1.5 can be achieved the Tmax would be nice. Phil Davis wrote about doing this (enlarging negative on panchromatic film) back in 1992 and he used an Alta PQ paper developer that is no longer made. I have a lot of 120 negatives from back in the 80's and 90's I want to work with in alt printing.

 

[DREW WILEY]

It's pretty darn easy to do enlarging onto either TMax or FP4. No need for weird developers. HC110 B works well. I have a special 8x10 vacuum film holder for this kind of work, to keep the film precisely flat.

 

[darkroommike]

I'm starting with 120mm B&W negatives developed for silver and want to enlarge them to print palladium and new cyanotype which require a DR of about 1.8. So it is a large increase in contrast. The contrast increase factor is about 1.6, so a G of 1.3 for both the interpositive and the enlarged negative will get me there. The Ortho+ is less expensive than the FP4 or Delta 100 and supposed to be excellent for copy work.
Will let you know. Thank you for your input!

You can do the same thing with 120 black and white film, I have done that to make very high contrast "lith" negatives, make an interpositive first and then make a new negative the size of your final image. Lith film for both steps and you can use any paper developer since you are doing it in two steps.

 

[Peter Schrager]

I need to generate a G bar of greater than 1.3. This is needed to enlarge medium format negatives onto panchromatic film to print in alternative processes (ie. new cyanotype and palladium).

Paper developer generated great density but the contrast is not getting to where i need it.

Thanks,
J

you need to investigate doing Ziatypes. you can easily use a grade #2 negative for the process; there is no developer used as it is a POP process and you can achieve different color levels too. I'm in the process of learning all the nuances right now.