Looking for a Medium format camera

benderscameracorner said:

I do wish you could get a manual handgrip/winder for the system a la Bronica ETRSi. I do like that system as well though the build isn't quite as good (still more than good enough, though) and there's definitely a quality difference between the original MC and latter EII lenses.

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The manual thumb operated grip/winder for the 645e is reportedly compatible with some of the older Mamiya 645 bodies.

If I understand correctly, the OP has some issues with the camera body. If the lenses are fine, why recommend a new system? Having the body fixed and CLA'd is probably the safest option, in many ways.

About the 553ELX:

I had one. It is a lovely, yet somewhat bizarre camera. And the youngest and probably most reliable of the motor-driven Hasselblads. I bought it when they were just several hundred EUR (body only). Compared to its predecessors it is using standard 1.5V batteries instead of Hasselblads proprietary accus. Yes, there are workarounds for the older models. 553 ELX is just "as it should have been from the beginning".

It is quite small for a MF SLR with motor, then again it is quite hefty. You can use it hand-held and then again it will be getting on your nerves quickly. The novelty of schlepping it around for street photography quickly wore off. I also had the metered prism and it added another hefty weight to the already heavy camera. I would say that a 553ELX with prisma and a 150mm lens is a perfect portrait / model kit for studio use, if that is what you want to do.

All lenses have their own shutter that needs to be looked after. Once you have your Hasselblad system up and running, it is very rewarding. But it is an emotional choice. A motor-less body is more expensive (but not much more, now that 553 prices picked up), but easier to carry, if that matters.

Due to Hasselblad's modular architecture (even the winding knob can be exchanged, there are several different versions of the focussing screen and so on), you might be getting sucked into never-ending loop of upgrading, exchanging, fixing components. I have been through it.

Keep in mind that most Hasselblads are naked, fully manual cameras, unlike your quite modern Pentax 645. Is that what you are looking for?

I made the mistake of buying cameras based on other people's recommendations instead of going to a shop and playing with lenses and bodies. Of course, that requires some effort (travel, or mail order with the option to return the camera).

One "mistake" was that I did not realize that the original focus screens are quite dark, and if you combine them with, say, a 4/150mm lens (great for portraits), that makes a sunny-day-only camera which is very difficult to focus. Even the 2.8/80 standard focal lens might surprise you when mounted on a HB with an older focussing screen, hence the Acute Matte (or any modern aftermarket) is key. Otherwise you will be disappointed.

I had 3 lenses (50/80/150), initially starting with the old silver ones, then the black ones with the scalloped focus rings and then the ones with the fine knurled / rubber covered focus rings. I found the older lenses uncomfortable to handle; the scalloped focus rings have a long throw and somehow cut into my finger. I simply did not gel with them. So, buyer beware and try before you buy.

About some of the recommendations here:

They all come from their owners' perspectives. A Mamiya Press is very big, very niche and very old (the final model was discontinued in the 1970s), and a rangefinder, not what you asked for. Mamiya 6 is a rangefinder, much younger, and also probably exceeding your budget. TLRs usually have fixed lenses and viewfinders (yes, there are few exceptions and workarounds). Your 645 has a prism; unless you are interested in the quite different WLF experience, its not what you want. Of all TLRs, the Roleiflex GX has a built-in TTL exposure meter, and is likely to exceed your budget. Bronicas are quite niche, with some known quirks, and approaching Hasselblad $$$ by now. Your 645 is probably one of the most modern MF SLRs (it was launched around the same time when the 553ELX was discontinued), and most of the suggested options would be quite a big step back in time and functionality.

To wrap it up: if you love your Pentax, just solve the body issue and keep on shooting. Or if you are hungry for something entirely new, think about what you want from it.

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P.S.: If you want to buy a Hasselblad, I would be happy to "review" the offers you are looking at - often sellers create a "Franken-blad" our of components from different eras, e.g. old waist-level finders on newer bodies etc. I can help to you decypher what you are actually looking at.

An example of a kit that I would buy (I have no relationship with the seller btw):


The lens and WLF are from the same era as the body, and the seller mentiones the build year of each component (all are coded and you can easily find out when a body, lens or film back was made). The seller explicitly mentioned the desirable (and period) bright Acute-matte focussing screen (often sold separately). From my own experience, 553 bodies sell for 400-600 EUR (depending on condition and history), 80mm lenses usually go for 600-900 EUR, and a A12 film back is 150-250 EUR. Add some margin for the dealer (for warranty and all) and you end up where we are here. Can you save some $$$? Sure, by buying from a private seller. It that like for like? Well, unless they offer some sort of return policy, otherwise no.

I would want a chrome example, not a black one, but that is just my personal preference.

Let's look at another offer:


Period-correct WLF with plastic button, but old-style darker focussing screen. Upgrading to Acute-Matte is 200-350 EUR. Add a A12 magazine (150-250 EUR) and a lens of your choice (modern 80mm most expensive, chrome 150mm is cheapest).

That dealer also has an older "EL" (minus "M" which means you cannot easily exchange the focussing screen). Probably the least desired (not "desirable") Hasselblad body, reflected in its price.

This one looks good (seller is in NL though):

Here is another good example, unfortunately the auction is already over, but it gives you an idea "what good looks like":

I also looked at the offers on KEH's website. It is difficult for me to judge them correctly, as the photos do not seem to resemble the actual camera on offer. But by now you already know that to the "naked" body (excluding WLF and focussing screen and film back) you have to add a lot of components.

Bottom line:

The 553ELX is a very special camera. Niche, yes. At its time, it was one of the expensive offerings in Hasselblad's product range. Looking at a 1996 price list, it was 40% more than the 503 body! It is a charming camera with a somewhat limited use case.

I would buy a complete kit from a reputable seller (with a decent return policy), and go for a late model (e.g. 553ELX) which has all the correct accoutrements.

If you like Pentax glass then you can go for another 645 or a Pentax 67. I have the Pentax 67 and plenty of lenses and have no complaints. Well, almost no complaints. I do wish or miss interchangeable backs a lot. That's the reason I bought a Bronica GS-1 to see if I liked that setup. I must say that if I had bought the Bronica GS-1 first I wouldn't take a second look at the Pentax 67. Yes, the Bronica is what I should have bought first, but that's all hindsight. For 6X6 it's Hasselblad for me. My main camera is the old 500C and then the 553ELX. If I were to buy a Hasselblad today it would be something on the order of a 503CX/CM/CW or 501CM and a 555ELD.
I think the Bronica cameras are the "best bang for the buck" cameras out there today. Cheap enough to have a spare body or two and the glass on the front is really first rate stuff.

MattKing said:

The manual thumb operated grip/winder for the 645e is reportedly compatible with some of the older Mamiya 645 bodies.

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Thanks for the tip! Just comparing pictures of the two, both the winder and shutter interfaces do seem to be suspiciously similar.

Will have to give it a try. While the ergonomics of the M645 are far from terrible, I find it rather easy to bump one of the two shutter releases during handling.

Naturally, the manual winder goes for twice what the motorised unit does on eBay - typical!

Even though I have 2 Hasselblad 500c's and a Fujica G690, I prefer my Mamiya 1000s and use it most often. It provides 15 exposures per roll and really enjoyed getting 30 shots when 220 was available.

If you have no issues, I would also recommend you just get another Pentax 645N body as you know its ins and outs and probably have other accessories for it. The devil you know...etc.

I did see a Pentax 645NII body on ebay for $829.00 and some 656N bodies for as low as $349!

Be well! Ed

Same from me, if you liked the Pentax and have lenses, stay in the system. Even without AF I prefer the 645n over the 645, mostly the button/control layout of the newer model, plus it gives 16 instead 15 exposures on 120 film.

As others have mentioned I would recommend the Mamiya 645 1000s. It’s the last of the all metal Mamiya 645 versions. I use mine with the Mamiya 645e grip and it’s great. One thing I like about the camera not always mentioned is the instant return mirror. With the grip and instant return mirror it feels like a large 35mm SLR.

In terms of medium format, I would suggest that a Rolliecord Vb will give you superb quality at a very reasonable price. The Schneider Xenar 75mm f/3.5 lens gives supperb quality.

Having using several models and formats o ver the years i have clear two things . There is no camera perfect for all types of Photography . Hasselblad v is perfect if you like quality and square format on tripod . Mamiya rz same . Mamiya 7 is the best for documentary hand held same as Fuji gw67 gw69 . Fuji gx680 is the best for studio work . My advice is choose your type of work and search for notable photographers . You ended using the best for you , not for others.

We haven't been given much information, apart from my "Pentax 645 broke down."
We know nothing about style of work, budget or any other considerations one has in choosing a camera or system.

prado333 said:

Having using several models and formats o ver the years i have clear two things . There is no camera perfect for all types of Photography . Hasselblad v is perfect if you like quality and square format on tripod . Mamiya rz same . Mamiya 7 is the best for documentary hand held same as Fuji gw67 gw69 . Fuji gx680 is the best for studio work . My advice is choose your type of work and search for notable photographers . You ended using the best for you , not for others.

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All of what you say is very true and finding the right camera that fits you and fits your needs is sometimes hit and miss. Forums like this can help remove a lot of pain and save money when it comes to trying to find the right camera for you. I think cameras like the Hasselblad 500 series are actually dual purpose type cameras. By that I mean they work perfect in the studio and are portable enough to carry just about anywhere. The film format is where I always had a problem when picking a camera. I had a beautiful full Mamiya 645 1000s camera system with the 80mm f1.9 as the standard lens, but just never grew to liking 645 format so I sold it. I'm not a real lover of 6X6, but it's better for me than 6x45 was. My liking is 6X7 and 6X9, but that's just me.

I prefer 6x6 format over 645 format.

ChrisGalway said:

It's at the upper limit if your budget, but have you thought of the Mamiya 6 MF rangefinder? (I'd suggest the 7ii, which I've owned for 20 years, but I've just seen the crazy prices being asked
These are lovely cameras to use.

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I would whole heartily agree agree with a Mamiya 7ii. A wonderful, light rangefinder with an especially sharp 43mm. Combined with a ball head and a carbon fiber tripod it is easy to carry all day (including other lenses).

ForeverDusty said:

I would whole heartily agree agree with a Mamiya 7ii. A wonderful, light rangefinder with an especially sharp 43mm. Combined with a ball head and a carbon fiber tripod it is easy to carry all day (including other lenses).

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Mamiya 7 + 43mm = $4000
OP budget "$1500"......

W Hood [N.MINT] Mamiya 7 Rangefinder 6x7 Film Camera + N 43mm f/4.5 From JAPAN | eBay

Lens Hood. Body:NEAR MINT. Front lens cap. (not genuine). Lens: NEAR MINT. TOTAL: NEAR MINT. tiny scuffs from normal use. By weight and shape of each product, I use 13 kind of cushioning materials and pursue safety and weight reduction.

www.ebay.com

OP has "modern" 6x4.5 MF SLR....and seems to like it. Why suggest a RF?!

RezaLoghme said:

OP has "modern" 6x4.5 MF SLR....and seems to like it. Why suggest a RF?!

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Why not ... variety is the spice of life!

The Mamiya 6 MF is definitely at the upper end of the price limit, but you could always go for a Fujica GW690, the Texas Leica (if you want a heavy camera).

The Mamiya 7ii is outside of budget.

Maybe nobody noticed it but this thread just turned into the "These are my preferences" merry-go-round instead of asking the OP what he is really looking for.

"negative size either 6 x4.5 or 6x6 or 6x7 max
budget up to 1500 USD
I'm looking for a robust and workhorse camera , preferably not too old"

Here is a list of MF cameras made in the 1990s (the final decade, "not too old"):

• Hasselblad 503CX
• Hasselblad 503CW
• Hasselblad 553 ELX
• Mamiya 645 Pro
• Mamiya 645 Pro TL
• Mamiya RZ67 Pro II
• Mamiya RB67 Pro SD
• Mamiya 6
• Mamiya 7
• Pentax 645N
• Pentax 67II
• Bronica SQ-Ai
• Bronica ETRSi
• Bronica RF645
• Contax 645
• Fujifilm GA645
• Fujifilm GA645Zi
• Fujifilm GW690III
• Fujifilm GSW690III
• Rolleiflex 6008 Integral
• Rolleiflex SRC 1000
• Rolleiflex 2.8 GX

I think most of these are under 1500 (body only). Mamiya 7 and Rolleiflex GX are definitenly > 1500.

Fujifilm GSW690III and Fujifilm GW690III are 6x9, not what the OP wants.

About reliability: Some of them have a lot of electronics, others are very niche and skilled service technicians might not be easily available, sometimes both of the aforementioned conditions apply. Cameras in good condition, with a dealer warranty and CLA proof will be more expensive than buying from a private seller. If money/budget is an issue, buy with open eyes.

I would go for a Hasselblad (popular, widely available, very large accessory range, quite simple and without ambitious electronics), or I would just but another Pentax body to avoid entering an entirely new system.

I assume that for $1500 he wants to take photos, so a $1500 body only is probably stretching things, especially if lenses are going to be another $500 or more. From your list, in addition to scratching out the Mamiya 7, I’d remove the Pentax 67II sine they are all well over $1500. I don’t know enough about Hasselblad pricing, but I expect those later model ones with a lens will probably exceed the budget. Most of the Fujis, Bronicas, and Mamiya SLRs should be within budget. As is the Pentax 645 N or NII. The Contax will be hard to find within budget.

Of course you might get lucky and find any of these in budget.

There is a longer post about the Hasselblad 553ELX from me above. 1500 $ buys you a good body and a lens.

Rolleiflex 3.5F

It might help you narrow down your choices if you think about some of these considerations:

1) Your previous camera was a vertically oriented 645 - did you flip the camera a lot to shoot landscape format or did you predominantly shoot in portrait orientation? Did you find yourself cropping heavily when you printed?
2) Do you make large (eg. 20" x 24" and up) enlargements from your negatives? Are you happy with the quality of your enlargements, or would you like a larger negative?
3) If you go with a larger negative, is the reduction of the number of exposures per roll a serious drawback for you? (15 on 120 for 645, 12 on 120 for 6x6, 10 on 120 for 6x7, and 8 on 120 for 6x9)
4) Do you have any experience composing and shooting in 6x6 square format? Would this fit your style and personal aesthetic?
5) Do you shoot a lot of closeups, photography with filters or still life photography that can be easier with through-the-lens viewing, like on an SLR?
6) The Pentax 645 has a built in meter, autoexposure, and film winding - are these important to you?
7) The Pentax 645 has interchangeable film inserts, is this important to you? Would interchangeable film backs that allow changing in mid roll be a big plus for you?
8) The Pentax 645 is fairly compact and lightweight, is this important to you?
9) The Pentax 645 is used primarily at eye level - is this important to you?
10) Is focussing on an SLR focussing screen with a split image focus aid important to you?
11) Do you use flash out doors? (focal plane shutter vs. leaf shutter)
12) Do you shoot a lot of images with extreme wide angle or telephoto lenses?(wider than 35mm or longer than 200mm on P645)? These kinds of lenses are often easier to use on SLRs rather than rangefinders.
13) Do you normally use a tripod?
14) The P645 is battery dependent - no battery no shutter, was this ever a problem for you?
15) How would you categorize the majority of the mages you shoot that you really like? (landscape, nature, portrait, fashion, sports/action, street photography, backpacking, etc.)

If you take a moment to work through the list and supply the answers, it could go a long way in narrowing down your choices to a tool that will best fit your needs (which may indeed be another P645 body).

I hope this helps!!!!

Paul

Sirius Glass said:

You can save several iterations of buying and then selling cameras until you are happy, by a newer model Hasselblad camera and lenses, but not the 200 and 2000 Series which can no longer be serviced or repaired.

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I 2nd the advise.For your budget, you can get a newer Hasselblad 500 or 500c1 with at least a standard lens and join tthe club.

pdccamerqs said:

It might help you narrow down your choices if you think about some of these considerations:

1) Your previous camera was a vertically oriented 645 - did you flip the camera a lot to shoot landscape format or did you predominantly shoot in portrait orientation? Did you find yourself cropping heavily when you printed?
2) Do you make large (eg. 20" x 24" and up) enlargements from your negatives? Are you happy with the quality of your enlargements, or would you like a larger negative?
3) If you go with a larger negative, is the reduction of the number of exposures per roll a serious drawback for you? (15 on 120 for 645, 12 on 120 for 6x6, 10 on 120 for 6x7, and 8 on 120 for 6x9)
4) Do you have any experience composing and shooting in 6x6 square format? Would this fit your style and personal aesthetic?
5) Do you shoot a lot of closeups, photography with filters or still life photography that can be easier with through-the-lens viewing, like on an SLR?
6) The Pentax 645 has a built in meter, autoexposure, and film winding - are these important to you?
7) The Pentax 645 has interchangeable film inserts, is this important to you? Would interchangeable film backs that allow changing in mid roll be a big plus for you?
8) The Pentax 645 is fairly compact and lightweight, is this important to you?
9) The Pentax 645 is used primarily at eye level - is this important to you?
10) Is focussing on an SLR focussing screen with a split image focus aid important to you?
11) Do you use flash out doors? (focal plane shutter vs. leaf shutter)
12) Do you shoot a lot of images with extreme wide angle or telephoto lenses?(wider than 35mm or longer than 200mm on P645)? These kinds of lenses are often easier to use on SLRs rather than rangefinders.
13) Do you normally use a tripod?
14) The P645 is battery dependent - no battery no shutter, was this ever a problem for you?
15) How would you categorize the majority of the mages you shoot that you really like? (landscape, nature, portrait, fashion, sports/action, street photography, backpacking, etc.)

If you take a moment to work through the list and supply the answers, it could go a long way in narrowing down your choices to a tool that will best fit your needs (which may indeed be another P645 body).

I hope this helps!!!!

Paul

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or just get a Hasselblad!

I am very happy with my Mamiya RB67. It is a real workhorse and you can find it very very cheap.
There is also a great range of good lenses for it, but the shutters tend to get sticky with age.

RalphLambrecht said:

or just get a Hasselblad!

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Not everyone wants a Hasselblad. What if you don't like square, or want more automation then a fully mechanical camera? Or prefer rangefinder or TLR over SLR? What about preference for leaf shutters?

I prefer the open questionnaire of pdc.... above.

I never held a Hasselblad in my hand, but am not wanting one. I love my Pentax 645n and the bunch of others I have (among them a Mamiya 6 which I found way beyond market price, pure luck).
Also, with the Hasselblad budget you could buy many Pentax lenses/films/developpers...