Looking for 6x4.5 SLR

[wiltw]

A German price list for the ETRSi system (in EURO) from the year 2004:


View attachment 183287

I have a 1990 US Price List, 3 pages full. Excerpts

ETRSi $1342
Ei film back 120 $356
AE-II (metering) finder $898
Zenzenon 75mm $598
Zenzenon 40mm $1048
Speed Grip $211​

Total: $4453 MSRP

 

[Pioneer]

Pentax 645 is a great option.

 

[RichardJack]

You don't need the extra cost of the ETRSi unless you need TTL flash. For plain old shooting a ETRS system will cost hundreds less, just don't buy it in Germany.

I paid ~ $200 for my ETRS w/ AEII finder and a 50mm f2.8 lens, then found the 75PE, 105, 150, 200, & 250 for less than $100 ea. But the 40mm cost me $120. The motor drive was $50 and I paid about the same for an extra 120 back. The prices for the SQ-A are slightly higher as are the lenses, but I managed to score the 135 & 180 for about $150ea. They are gems. However, the view is much bigger and brighter in the AEII finder of my ETRS vs my SQ-A with AE finder.

Ergonomics are important, review all of the suggestions that you've gotten and handle the camera before buying it. Check camera stores that sell used or a local camera club. Everyone will tell you their camera is best...your the one who should make that decision.
good luck!

 

[Jerevan]

If I have understood it correctly: the ETSRi has mirror lockup while the earlier ETR and the ETRS lacks that functionality.

 

[macfred]

If I have understood it correctly: the ETSRi has mirror lockup while the earlier ETR and the ETRS lacks that functionality.

Yes, you got it right - no MLU with ETR and ETRS.

 

[Prest_400]

How well timed. I am eyeing mamiya 645 kit only because it comes of the 80mm f1.9. The system itself is on par with the ETR on the low price scale but it never called my attention.
Seeing that a simple kit went past 2000€ and now can be gotten for as low as 150-200€ doesn't help matters in avoding getting one! The 645 don't seem light however, faring around 1.5-2kg depending on the kit; compared to a TLR or RF. Size wise they aren't really small!
I have a Fuji 6x9 but it'd be nice to have a smaller format medium format, if not, 645 can be shot almost like 35mm and is much more economic than 6x9.

Pentax 645n would be my choice being an advanced machine, but it's more expensive (400-500€?) -- the plain older p645 is much much cheaper though.

 

[rowghani]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. The pentax 645 looks really cool.

 

[Down Under]

As Harry Stevens (#6) wrote, the Rolleicord or a Rolleiflex T with a 16 exposure insert kit (most Rolleicords can also be converted to take 24 shots on a roll and even 35mm film) is a pretty good 645 - think of it as an SLR with an extra lens (viewing) on top.

With careful/clever cranking, you can easily get 17 shots to a roll of 120. With the cost of roll film these days, that's a pretty good good small plus.

An advantage with using the Rollei TLRs with 16 kits is when you shoot horizontals (landscapes etc), you don't have to tilt the camera vertically. AFAIK, every other camera has to be held at a 90 degree angle for 'long' images. This annoyed me greatly when I was using Fuji 645is (again, not SLRs, rather a sort of autofocus P&S with superb lenses) and was one of the main reasons I sold the cameras.

I still have a fairly large hoard of expired 120 film in my home freezer,so every now and then I thaw out 20 or 40 rolls and take myself off to Southeast Asia to slow shoot my way around temples and old colonial buildings with my Rollei T and a Gossen meter. It's great fun, and the pleasure is enhanced by my not having to carry a heavy MF SLR kit with more lenses than I would ever need and half a tonne of accessories.

Many wedding photographers I knew in Melbourne in the 1980s and 1990s used Mamiyas or Bronicas to give themselves the MF "edge" on sharpness and those gorgeous mid-tones. They are all retired now but one or two I have stayed in contact with still use their work horse cameras for personal shooting. That a 30 year old MF camera still works is a wonderful thing.

If I had the bucks I would treat myself to a Contax 645, they seem to be the BMW of MF cameras. Beautiful machines. I could even live with the fairly limited choice of lenses, as long as I had a wide-angle to shoot architecture with.

Otherwise, after reading all the other posts,I had no idea there are so many 645 SLRs available on the market. I rarely see anyone shooting MF film in Australia now, and never in Asia, where just about everyone has given up on roll film and sold their souls to the pixel false gods.

I'm somewhat off-topic again, I know, but the last film camera I saw anyone using there was in 2006 - a Japanese tourist had a pair of 35mm Bessas at a temple complex in Bali. I couldn't resist flashing my two Contax G1s with a 20 and a 35 but he ignored me. Served me right. I've not seen anyone using a MF camera out of Australia since 1999 or 2000.

Threads like these may help to revive the format, which has so much going for it. Now if only 120 roll film prices would drop a bit...

 

[Prest_400]

As Harry Stevens (#6) wrote, the Rolleicord or a Rolleiflex T with a 16 exposure insert kit (most Rolleicords can also be converted to take 24 shots on a roll and even 35mm film) is a pretty good 645 - think of it as an SLR with an extra lens (viewing) on top.

With careful/clever cranking, you can easily get 17 shots to a roll of 120. With the cost of roll film these days, that's a pretty good good small plus.

I still have a fairly large hoard of expired 120 film in my home freezer,so every now and then I thaw out 20 or 40 rolls and take myself off to Southeast Asia to slow shoot my way around temples and old colonial buildings with my Rollei T and a Gossen meter. It's great fun, and the pleasure is enhanced by my not having to carry a heavy MF SLR kit with more lenses than I would ever need and half a tonne of accessories.
(...)

If I had the bucks I would treat myself to a Contax 645, they seem to be the BMW of MF cameras. Beautiful machines. I could even live with the fairly limited choice of lenses, as long as I had a wide-angle to shoot architecture with.

Otherwise, after reading all the other posts,I had no idea there are so many 645 SLRs available on the market. I rarely see anyone shooting MF film in Australia now, and never in Asia, where just about everyone has given up on roll film and sold their souls to the pixel false gods.

I'm somewhat off-topic again, I know, but the last film camera I saw anyone using there was in 2006 - a Japanese tourist had a pair of 35mm Bessas at a temple complex in Bali. I couldn't resist flashing my two Contax G1s with a 20 and a 35 but he ignored me. Served me right. I've not seen anyone using a MF camera out of Australia since 1999 or 2000.

Threads like these may help to revive the format, which has so much going for it. Now if only 120 roll film prices would drop a bit...

The Rollei 16 exp kit seemed interesting, I almost could grab ahold of a Va with one installed (try to find the 12exp counter later on though!). I have a Fuji 6x9 and even had the idea of taking it touring SE Asia, whenever/if it ever happens. Purchased some Fuji 160NS in 220 in anticipation.

I did take a peek through archive.org at some film retailers (B&H, some UK sellers too) and seeing 220 films at the price of current 120... Well, it was a bit sad given how 220 is all but dead; and with 120 at 4 bucks a roll, the consumption wouldn't matter as much!

As of spotting othe film photographers, yesterday I crossed my way with 3 guys, 2 without camera but one of them was slinging a P67II. Big to see in the flesh. Didn't stop them because they were quite involved in their own conversation. This is in Barcelona, and you will spot lots of cameras and some Film ones every once in a while. Honestly, in the last year I've seen more MF cameras than a couple years ago.

There is quite a bit of passion in film, athough in more of a hybrid way pushed by some labs. Wedding editorial style is here to stay... Contax 645 is the legend of it. I was in a conversation with a lab founder and wedding photog. In Spain, 2010, Contaxes were bought by a store for about 600€ a kit to be sold in the US for triple the price! However, with so much electronic dependency, these machines are failing and to no avail if they do.

 

[wiltw]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. The pentax 645 looks really cool.

Not to bad-mouth the Pentax 645, but something to consider... if you plan on getting a long FL lens for the camera, the grip on the Pentax 645 is mounted (permanently) at the rear of the camera body. That means that the entire weight of the body and lens both torque downward in the hand and none of the body weight serves as a counterweight to offset the lens weight. Something to consider.

 

[Down Under]

120 film at $4 a roll? I wish!. Here in Down Under, many photo seller wants a minimum of 200% profit on every item sold and pass on all the costs plus a markup, so we pay A$8 or more for B&W, color? priced out of the market,or at least my price range.

All this reminded me that, with the OzBuck at 80.something cents US today, it's time to send a bulk film order from one of my US suppliers.

Sorry for the rant, but latest Rolleiflex needs a CLA and I've just been quoted A$600 for it in Melbourne - more than I paid for the camera. Off it will go to Singapore next month, to be done there at half the price or less.

Enough. Let me say, in many says Australia is a good place to live, if sometimes isolated from the real world out there.

The Rolleicord 12, 16 and 24 exposure kits (wheel, frame insert and WLF inserts) can be picked up at reasonable prices. Some years ago when I (briefly) had a Vb, went OL and got the 16 and 24 kits (US$50 including P&P) from Manfred Schmidt, a long-established OL seller who was both efficient and well mannered, but sadly, may no longer be in business.

The Rolleis ('flex or 'cord) have the added advantage that you won't have to turn the camera to a 90 degree position to shoot horizontals. The Vb shutter level below the taking lens on the Rolleicord was always annoying to me and too many of my shots came out slightly lopsided, but other than this the camera produced fine results and was good to use, a "big bang for the bucks" as the locals here say. For me the 'flex is the only camera (I now have four) and my partner's brother now uses it, so it has stayed in the family, sort of.

If I had the spare dosh (alas, no) and found a good one, I would buy the Contax 645 and two lenses and go 645 minimal in my old age, if one can be more minimalist than with a Rolleiflex. Just dreamin'...

 

[ntenny]

An advantage with using the Rollei TLRs with 16 kits is when you shoot horizontals (landscapes etc), you don't have to tilt the camera vertically. AFAIK, every other camera has to be held at a 90 degree angle for 'long' images.

I'm not sure about the other SLRs, but the M645 is natively horizontal.

-NT

 

[Pioneer]

Not to bad-mouth the Pentax 645, but something to consider... if you plan on getting a long FL lens for the camera, the grip on the Pentax 645 is mounted (permanently) at the rear of the camera body. That means that the entire weight of the body and lens both torque downward in the hand and none of the body weight serves as a counterweight to offset the lens weight. Something to consider.

And that is somehow different from other mf cameras?

Look at the grips used on the Hasselblad, the Bronica, the Mamiya, etc. Everyone of them balance from the back of the camera body. And if you don't install a grip on those cameras then you are left trying to hold a square box instead. If you intend to use an eye level prism then a grip is almost a necessity. In reality I find the Pentax 645 series to be the best grip setup out there. It looks like a big camera but when you actually get out and start working with it you don't notice the size because the handling makes it feel like a much smaller camera. It is obvious to me why it was such a popular wedding camera.

I shoot long lenses on a couple of medium format cameras, including the Pentax 645, and they all over balance the body forward. Just move your left hand out to support the lens. That is exactly how you work with a 35mm SLR with a long lens.

Most of my really long Pentax 645 lenses are fairly light in comparison to other's lenses so the weight out front is not quite as bad. Try slinging the Zeiss Sonnar 180/2.8 around. I don't care what camera you are using, that lens is a handful. Beautiful results though so most think it is worth it.

IMHO the only real downside to the Pentax 645 is that you cannot change out films in mid-roll.

 

[moto-uno]

^^^^^^ You must've missed me roaming around with my Etrsi in Thailand and VietNam last Oct !
Climbing mountains in that heat and humidity for some potentially great shots with that camera and extra lens
was cause to rethink that MF kit . But some of the slides I later developed put that thought behind me . Peter

 

[moto-uno]

From my Etrsi in VietNam. Peter

 

[Huss]

An advantage with using the Rollei TLRs with 16 kits is when you shoot horizontals (landscapes etc), you don't have to tilt the camera vertically. AFAIK, every other camera has to be held at a 90 degree angle for 'long' images. This annoyed me greatly when I was using Fuji 645is (again, not SLRs, rather a sort of autofocus P&S with superb lenses) and was one of the main reasons I sold the cameras.

Not so for the Mamiya 645 Pro TL that I use. And because of that I'd assume the other Mamiya 645s as well.

 

[moto-uno]

^This sounds more like reference to the Bronica RF 645 (rangefinder model camera ). Peter

 

[macfred]

... M645 is natively horizontal.

-NT

Just like the Bronica ETRS(i) and the Pentax 645.

 

[macfred]

^This sounds more like reference to the Bronica RF 645 (rangefinder model camera ). Peter

Yes, those are in portrait orientation (like the FUJI GA - series too).

 

[Down Under]

Many thanks, ntenny (#37) and macfred (#43). I stand corrected on two points - the Mamiya and the Bronica both have 645 backs that can be used horizontally for those landscape shots. Like the Rolleiflex T and the late model Rolleicords.

moto-uno (#39 and#40), were you the photographer I saw at Ayutthaya (Thailand) with four cameras round his neck and the big camera bag (probably full of film) being carried by a Thai assistant?

That's excellent color you posted. Also sharpness. MF slides have it all over almost every 35mm, 'tho I could give you some strong competition with my Contax G1 and 45mm Zeiss Planar. Or the Rollei Planar...

It's great to have so much choice in 645. I could talk about the Fuji GA645 range, but they aren't SLRs, so I won't...

 

[Prest_400]

120 film at $4 a roll? I wish!. Here in Down Under, many photo seller wants a minimum of 200% profit on every item sold and pass on all the costs plus a markup, so we pay A$8 or more for B&W, color? priced out of the market,or at least my price range.

All this reminded me that, with the OzBuck at 80.something cents US today, it's time to send a bulk film order from one of my US suppliers.

Sorry for the rant, but latest Rolleiflex needs a CLA and I've just been quoted A$600 for it in Melbourne - more than I paid for the camera. Off it will go to Singapore next month, to be done there at half the price or less.

Enough. Let me say, in many says Australia is a good place to live, if sometimes isolated from the real world out there.
(...)
If I had the spare dosh (alas, no) and found a good one, I would buy the Contax 645 and two lenses and go 645 minimal in my old age, if one can be more minimalist than with a Rolleiflex. Just dreamin'...

A$8 is around 5.5€? That's about the price of most films. Color I can get through the UK for about 6-7€ (Portra, Ektar). I don't buy local because it means Australian prices as well, though there's a Lomo Embassy store and I'd plan to try their CN film in 120. Good news is that E6 might be coming back in town. OT, and I might have to post it in your "retirement thread", but as a young professional I'm not having neither the income or stability so tend to be quite careful with the money. -- I'd too wish for 2009-10 film prices!
I'd go for Mechanical cameras and a Rollei seems a good idea. I got a Rolleicord V but I'm getting rid of it at the moment because of that lever release and thought on 645 as well. Some 645 SLR kits are very cheap!

The Contax 645 is very advanced but given its prices and the lack of service if electronics go kaput mean it's a "lotto winner" camera. In any case, given 645 is a smaller format, some automation and convenience is really welcome.

^^^^^^ You must've missed me roaming around with my Etrsi in Thailand and VietNam last Oct !
Climbing mountains in that heat and humidity for some potentially great shots with that camera and extra lens
was cause to rethink that MF kit . But some of the slides I later developed put that thought behind me . Peter

I haven't handled them but 645 SLRs aren't that compact. I got a Fuji 6x9 and on a glimpse, a Mamiya 645AF or Contax 645 competes in size. Of course, the feature set and philosophy is markedly different -- the fixed lens semi wide RF is also minimalist in a way (but not small, hah) .

OT but it's nice to read about Medium Format travel! I want to do so in the future. The 250€ that a camera kit pays for half of the roundtrip fare during low season, or can go long towards film costs.

 

[Huss]

I haven't handled them but 645 SLRs aren't that compact. I got a Fuji 6x9 and on a glimpse, a Mamiya 645AF or Contax 645 competes in size. Of course, the feature set and philosophy is markedly different -- the fixed lens semi wide RF is also minimalist in a way (but not small, hah) .

The 645 SLRs are very large and heavy. My GW690III is more compact and lighter than my Mam 645ProTL, as well as easier to carry over the shoulder. But one is a system camera (interchangeable everything), the other is not.

 

[macfred]

Best medium format camera for travelling light might be a folder in 6x4.5. 6x6 or even 6x9. One can easily take two and the baggage will be more lightweight than travelling with a medium format SLR.

 

[ntenny]

Best medium format camera for travelling light might be a folder in 6x4.5. 6x6 or even 6x9. One can easily take two and the baggage will be more lightweight than travelling with a medium format SLR.

I love folders, but it's hard to find one that will give you image quality competitive with a (comparatively) modern MF SLR. And there are precious few with built-in metering, which the OP asked for too.

I've come to think a good TLR is the sweet spot for travelling light with MF---good focussing mechanism, good lenses, manageable weight and bulk---but you generally have to accept a fixed lens, and again it's hard to get built-in metering (and if you do it's usually selenium).

-NT

 

[Pioneer]

I love folders, but it's hard to find one that will give you image quality competitive with a (comparatively) modern MF SLR. And there are precious few with built-in metering, which the OP asked for too.

I've come to think a good TLR is the sweet spot for travelling light with MF---good focussing mechanism, good lenses, manageable weight and bulk---but you generally have to accept a fixed lens, and again it's hard to get built-in metering (and if you do it's usually selenium).

-NT

The Fuji GF670 certainly ticks all those boxes.