Long term stability of Pt/Pd prints on paper

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Marco B

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Well, OK, I know hit on a very interesting article by Adam Gottlieb, available online discussing the:

"CHEMISTRY AND CONSERVATION OF PLATINUM AND PALLADIUM PHOTOGRAPHS"
http://cool.conservation-us.org/jaic/articles/jaic34-01-002.html

Although it still lacks details as to the exact causes of the deterioration of the paper base as seen in some Pt/Pd prints, which seems mainly due to a lack of scientific or conservation research in this field, it definitely is worth a read for anyone doing or wanting to venture into Pt/Pd printing.

Also see the remark in section 3.5 of this article:

"Due to stability problems associated with the paper base, platinum printing has turned out to yield far less permanent photographs than was thought or hoped. The state of old platinum and palladium prints is now of great concern. Investigation into why and how platinum prints deteriorate has been based exclusively on the study of existing prints, most of them several decades old (Rempel 1987; Reilly 1986; Flieder 1985; Norris 1985). The tests described below offer additional insights into the impermanence of platinum and palladium prints."

*** Edit ***: Now read it all. A bit disappointing is that the article mainly focusses on setting a kind of baseline for the possible composition of historic Pt/Pd prints, and how they were processed. The results don't give any further insight into the process of the degradation of the prints, nor the impermanence, despite the suggestion of that in the above cited text.

And here is another article from the Alternative Photography Website showing some more real world examples and photo's of the effect of Platinum on paper and the "mirror-image" formation, and two theories (but no definite answer) as to their formation (1 - mechanical transfer of Platinum particles, 2 - catalytic discolouration of paper fibres caused by the contact with the Platinum)

Article by Taylor Whitney:
http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/essays/platinum-print-discussion

And a reference to conservational deacidification of Platinum prints (not a full article, can only be accessed directly online by participating institutions):
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Marco
 
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Marco B

Marco B

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And another source that discuss a possible residual iron problem in Pt/Pd. Actually, from what I read up to know, residual iron seems to be playing a role as well, don't know if it has a connection with the catalytic properties of Pt/Pd by as well, but it is know iron cations can cause troubles by themselves, see (there was a url link here which no longer exists) I recently started here on APUG:

A Conservation Treatment to Remove Residual Iron from Platinum Prints

This article also raises the question how much of the deterioration is attributable to the catalytic conversion of SO2 to SO3 by platinum, and how much due to residual iron. Of course, both deterioration processes could work in conjunction.

It seems that "clearing" the print is of utmost importance, and was not always done correctly historically (and may of course not always be done correctly today...), as some historical prints with discoloration showed residual iron by XRF spectrum analysis.

Interestingly, it seems there are highly sensitive test strips available (see this page) that can detect residual iron at levels as low as 1 ppm as well. Maybe they could be used as a test for proper clearing of Pt/Pd prints. In addition, the recommended calciumphytate or magnesiumphytate chelating agent baths used for removing excess iron in iron gall ink corroded documents, might be of use too?? Maybe as an extra bath after the now common EDTA clearing?

Marco
 
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Marco B

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Mike Ware's comments on the issue

Hi all,

Some good news. Mike Ware was kind enough to contact me after having seen my thread here on APUG, and give some more insights into the problem, as seen from his knowledge. He also gave permission to publish it here, so I have added his comments here in this post as he send them to me via e-mail.

*** Mike Ware's comments on the topic: ***

1) Empirical evidence: anyone who has handled a number of unmounted historic platinotypes (ca. 100 years old) knows that they *can* be very fragile (but are not always so). The phenomenon is history-dependent. I have examples of both in my possession. The issue of acidic embrittlement of the paper substrate of historic platinotypes is well-known to photograph conservators. It has been attributed to the catalytic effect of platinum 'black' promoting the oxidation of sulphur dioxide SO2 to sulphur trioxide SO3, which with water forms sulphuric acid H2SO4, which is non-volatile and concentrates in the cellulose fibres, splitting the chains and weakening the structure. All this you know already.

2) Many years ago, I supervised a "quick and dirty" unpublished experiment to test the general idea:

A piece of cellulose paper was half-coated with platinotype sensitizer, exposed, and fully processed to produce maximum density of black Pt.
It was cut into four pieces, two white, two black.
One white and one black piece were separately macerated in a liquidizer, and the pH of each measured instrumentally as a 'control'.
The other white and black pieces were exposed to an atmosphere of sulphur dioxide gas (ca. 1 atmosphere) for 3 days in a closed vessel.
These two were then 'pulped' and their pH's read.

The pH results were:

Controls: white paper 6.3 black Pt 6.1

SO2 Gassed: white paper 4.5 black Pt 2.6

These rough figures seem to provide evidence that 'platinum black' catalyses acid formation in the paper.

If you assume a sort of concentration/time reciprocity law for the "gassing" (I have no evidence that this is valid!) it suggests that 1 atmosphere of SO2 for 3 days is about equivalent to a concentration of 100 ppm for 80 years.
This is an unreasonably high 'gas exposure' for an historic platinotype: outside levels could be about 1 ppm. Indoors maybe more.
Obviously this rough experiment needs to be better controlled and the variables explored. In particular the Relative Humidity of the atmosphere needs to be controlled, because I think the water content may prove to be a significant variable. It would also be interesting to see what happens with a pure palladium print.

3) Figures for the SO2 content of the atmosphere at various times and places are available.
For instance the "Great London Smog" of 1952:

http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/Resources/Teaching_Packs/Key_Stage_4/Air_Quality/02.html

saw a rise to a maximum value of SO2 level quoted as 1.34 ppm, compared with a previous mean of about 0.1- 0.2 ppm. Since the Clean Air Acts of the late 1960s, levels of SO2 in some places (e.g. Manchester) have dropped by a factor of 10, from about 0.5 ppm to 0.05 ppm.

I would be interested to hear of any figures estimated for the typical domestic atmospheres of the late Victorian era, when many historic platinotypes were made, and gas, coal and coke were being burnt openly in confined environments, as well as in the industrial discharges.

4) "Image offsetting" by platinotypes is a well-known and characteristic effect, as illustrated by Jim Reilly and Taylor Whitney. It could be due to two things: the catalytic acid production diffusing across and degrading the opposite contacting sheet, or even to a more direct surface catalysis of the oxidative degradation by air of the polyphenolic lignin macromolecules in some wood-based papers, giving rise to quinoid structures with typical yellow-brown chromophores (same thing that causes colour of oxidised hydroquinone developers, and yellowing of newsprint). There should have been some research on this by now, but I don't have the infra-red instrumentation needed.

5) None of the above applies to palladium, as far as I know. I've not heard of embrittlement in historical palladiotypes (possibly because they are much rarer than platinotypes) and I haven't seen any instances of 'offsetting' with palladium - but this too may be a scarcity effect. Most so-called "platinum printers" today are actually making palladiotypes, substantially, if you examine their recipes, (and bear in mind that platinum is usually intrinsically 'slower' to deposit than palladium). Gottlieb's article that you cited, for instance, is actually confined to palladium in his experimental work despite his title: it does not cover the behaviour of platinum at all.

6) Modern clearing of Pt/Pd using my recommended sequence: Na2EDTA - metabisulphite - Na4EDTA, (see my Website) leaves the paper at a favourable pH compared with the HCl baths of yesteryear. Iron(III) stains can, however, be removed retrospectively by treatment with dithionite/EDTA (Rees & Gent at the V&A - a piece of research that I part-supervised.)

So, all in all, the "platinotypes" of today are much less at risk from acid degradation than those made a century ago, for a variety of reasons:

most of them are not platinotypes anyway
they are now better cleared of iron(III) in non-acid baths
the atmosphere contains much less SO2 to form acid
the papers used are generally of heavier weight

So, in a sense, Loris is right: There's little to worry about for the present practitioners!

**************************

I intend to write my own "concluding remarks" based on all I read and Mike's additional comments. Will post them here soon.

Marco
 

doughowk

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Thanks Marco & Mike Ware for the encouraging information. I prefer straight Palladium prints due to their tone, so very interesting if they're also less vulnerable to pollution.
 
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Marco B

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A few more points:

- Found some more interesting info. It seems the Getty Museum, and specifically the Getty Conservation Institute (GCI), is currently conducting a large study into the wide array of (historical) alternative processes.
http://www.alternativephotography.c...ess-photography-and-science-meet-at-the-getty

Interestingly, they mention some of the historical Pt/Pd prints they encountered, had significant red staining due to insufficiently clearing of iron sensitizer, although, to be honest, if I read "dark red highlights", I am beginning to wonder if the photographer bothered with clearing his prints at all... :surprised:

"Analyzing a large number of both historical and modern iron-based alternative process photographs has allowed us to assess different types of developing and clearing procedures. We have experienced platinum prints with dark red highlights due to now fully oxidized residual iron from insufficiently cleared or washed platinum prints. Our analysis of modern iron process prints provides the artist with some insight into their working technique and helps to predict potential changes of print tonality due to aging. To date we haven’t found any iron-based prints that do not contain some residual iron even after very good processing, but our analysis of Steven’s prints showed that his prints will be very stable with minimum chance of tonality changes due to iron residue."

- This clearing issues or removal of iron is definitely a big issue as well, as remaining iron is well known to cause paper degradation as well besides causing a visible coloured stain on the print.

The process behind this is about the following (from this article):

Fe2+ + O2 + H+ --> Fe3+ + HOO•
Fe3+ + HOO• + H+ --> H2O2
Fe2+ + H2O2 --> Fe3+ + OH- + OH•
OH• + Cellulose --> depolymerisation

Where OH• is a highly reactive Hydroxyl radical, as you can see created from the remaining iron in the print. Paper is mainly cellulose, and depolymerisation means the chains of cellulose are broken down in smaller pieces, causing embrittlement of the paper.

- Despite both my and Mike's remark about SO2 levels having dropped significantly in the past two decades due to mitigation efforts at the sources, we are still not at the very low pre-industrialization levels. For those wishing to determine their own environment, I have now included "The Lichen Scale" as attachments. As I wrote before, lichens on trees are very susceptible to SO2, and give a good indication of SO2 in the local environment. Looking at the scale, and knowing our Dutch forests, I can tell I almost never see lichens of the group 7, and rarely 6, meaning levels are generally above 50 microgram / m3.

Interestingly, if you look at historical 17th century pictures of the Netherlands, painters did depict lush lichen growth on trees, another indication air used to be much cleaner. And you can still see beautifully covered trees in for example parts of the UK, with its clean ocean air.

By the way: for anyone working in education: this is a very nice experiment to make children aware of air pollution. Have them map out the lichens in and around your town. :smile: Scale is valid for moderate central or northern European climates, but I guess it will work in other wetter climates as well, although the lichen species may or will be different.

Marco
 

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Loris Medici

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...

- Despite both my and Mike's remark about SO2 levels having dropped significantly in the past two decades due to mitigation efforts at the sources, we are still not at the very low pre-industrialization levels. For those wishing to determine their own environment, I have now included "The Lichen Scale" as attachments. As I wrote before, lichens on trees are very susceptible to SO2, and give a good indication of SO2 in the local environment. Looking at the scale, and knowing our Dutch forests, I can tell I almost never see lichens of the group 7, and rarely 6, meaning levels are generally above 50 microgram / m3.

...

Hi Marco,

Our SO2 levels were relatively high in Istabul (which had - and still has - many industrial zones around) in 80's and early 90's - due high levels of coal consumption for heating, but we have switched to natural gas in late 90's and since then SO2 concentration went down to 9.5 microgram/m3 (mean 2010/Q1, downtown boroughs) levels, which, if I'm not mistaking, corresponds to something around 0.002 ppm...

Regards,
Loris.
 
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Marco B

Marco B

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Hi Marco,

Our SO2 levels were relatively high in Istanbul (which had - and still has - many industrial zones around) in 80's and early 90's - due high levels of coal consumption for heating, but we have switched to natural gas in late 90's and since then SO2 concentration went down to 9.5 microgram/m3 (mean 2010/Q1, downtown boroughs) levels, which, if I'm not mistaking, corresponds to something around 0.002 ppm...

Regards,
Loris.

Well, that is a good one Loris!...

I now start to think the Lichen Scale's values of SO2 are not so much based on a one year average, but on some form of peak value (e.g. 1 day average for X times per year), resulting in much higher figures for the SO2 concentrations, compared to a "one-year average" figure... Unfortunately, the exact "scale" :tongue: of the Lichen Scale is not mentioned on the chart... :sad: It looks likely though it is indeed a daily maximum average for a certain number of days per year, if compared to the norm levels I have included below.

If I look at some environmental reports for the Netherlands, the figures for year averages are much lower than the 50 micrograms / m3 I suspected from the Lichen Scale, even as low as a few micrograms / m3, see the attached map.

And the following listing of Dutch norms for SO2 levels also shows the marked differences for different periods of time:

- Hour average:
350 µg/m3, max 24 times per year allowed

- Daily average:
125 µg/m3, max 3 times per year allowed

- Natural ecosystems (one year average)
20 µg/m3

- Alarmlevel
500 µg/m3, level measured for 3 consecutive hours in an area of 100 km2 or in a city

But do note it is also highly depended on the location. See the 2008 map that shows pretty high figures in the Rotterdam Harbour area having lots of industry. However, even the figures of this heavily industrialized region of the Netherlands are in line with the 9.5 micrograms you mentioned for Istanbul. Also note the graph showing the sharp decline in SO2 in the air since 1985, due to the mitigation efforts.

Still, one report list 65.000(!) tons of SO2 was released in 2006 by different sources in the Netherlands...

Other interesting last fact is, that I have heard that farmers that practice high productive agriculture regimes, are again obliged to supply sulphur as a fertilizer with the sharply declined SO2 levels of today. When levels were still way up in the '70s and '80s, the SO2 in the air provided enough "sulphur fertilization" for the plants to grow optimally. Now in some parts of the Netherlands (also depending on soil type), crops have become "sulphur limited" in their growth.

All in all a good sign for the longevity of our photographic prints :smile:, whether Pt/Pd or silvergelatine!~
 

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Marco B

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CONCLUSIONS - Long term stability of Pt/Pd prints on paper

Hello all,

I had planned to do this for a while. Since we have drifted a bit off of the main topic of the thread, I thought it wise to summarize my main conclusions from all I read up to know, and the contributions by others, with a special thanks to Mike Ware and Loris. I will also try to include some of the sources and scientific literature links I posted earlier in the thread. Just be aware that the content and some of the chemistry may be hard to understand, as some of the original scientific articles are quite complicated.

*** CONCLUSIONS: ***

- Despite the noble metals themselves being virtually indestructible (only concentrated hydrochloric or nitric acid will dissolve them), both true Platinotypes (100% Pt), Palladiotypes (100% Pd) and mixtures thereof, can suffer from archival permanence or longevity issues. The main issue is not with the metals and image itself, but with threads to the paper base.

- There are four main threads to Platinum prints, and three to Palladium prints, the difference caused by the much lesser catalytic activity of Palladium:

These are:

* 1) Acidification of the paper through the catalytic activity of Platinum, causing embrittlement of the paper. The catalyic activity of Platinum causes air born SO2 gas to be converted to SO3 and ultimately sulphuric acid (H2SO4) (See Mike's comments (there was a url link here which no longer exists) and in his "Chrysotype: Photography in Nanoparticle Gold" article). Acidification leads to the breakdown of cellulose, as it splits the chains and causes depolymerization. Cellulose is the main component of wood and paper. NOTE: this first issue is virtually absent in 100% Palladium prints, due to the much lesser catalytic activity for this reaction, if at all.

* 2) Breakdown of the cellulose in the paper base of a Pt/Pd print caused by Hydroxyl radical formation as a consequence of retained / uncleared Iron (Fe2+ or Fe3+ cations).

The process behind this is about the following (from this article):

Fe2+ + O2 + H+ --> Fe3+ + HOO•
Fe3+ + HOO• + H+ --> H2O2
Fe2+ + H2O2 --> Fe3+ + OH- + OH•
OH• + Cellulose --> depolymerisation

Where OH• is a highly reactive Hydroxyl radical, as you can see created from the remaining iron in the print. Paper is mainly cellulose, and depolymerisation means the chains of cellulose are broken down in smaller pieces, causing embrittlement of the paper.

This is not a trivial issue. There are quite a lot of historical examples of retained Iron. In fact, the Getty Conservation Institute, states that all of the Iron based process prints (Pt/Pd, VanDyke etc.) they investigated up to now using advanced X-ray Fluorescence (XRF) techniques, showed some amount of residual retained Iron, even if very good practices were employed for clearing and washing. However, very tiny amounts of retained Iron will probably not pose a major thread to longevity of the prints.

* 3) Discolouring of the paper base by formation of oxidized Iron (essentially "rust") causing yellow or even dark red stains. The Getty Conservation Institute has witnessed Platinum prints with dark red highlights due to fully oxidized Iron.

* 4) Discolouring of the paper base by discolouring and break down of the paper fibres themselves. This will mainly occur with low grade lignin containing papers made of (purified) wood pulp, as lignin is even capable of autooxidation (reaction with Oxygen in the air, see "Dead Link Removed"). However, it is likely that retained Iron will or may cause similar issues even on high grade 100% cotton rag paper, via the reaction described in issue 2).

Nonetheless, use of high quality 100% cotton rag paper - so paper made of cotton instead of wood - should provide good chances for long term survival of the print, since this kind of paper is of a very high almost pure cellulose content. Luckily, this is already common practice among Pt/Pd printers and recommended everywhere.

This reaction is probably also responsible for the sometimes witnessed "image offsetting" onto cover paper seen with some Pt/Pd prints, whereby a mirror image becomes visible on the cover paper. See Mike Ware's remark below:

"'Image offsetting' by platinotypes is a well-known and characteristic effect, as illustrated by Jim Reilly and Taylor Whitney. It could be due to two things: the catalytic acid production diffusing across and degrading the opposite contacting sheet, or even to a more direct surface catalysis of the oxidative degradation by air of the polyphenolic lignin macromolecules in some wood-based papers, giving rise to quinoid structures with typical yellow-brown chromophores (same thing that causes colour of oxidised hydroquinone developers, and yellowing of newsprint). There should have been some research on this by now, but I don't have the infra-red instrumentation needed."

And another example of this:
attachment.php



*** WHAT CAN BE DONE TO PREVENT ALL THIS? ***

You may wonder what can be done to prevent all this. Well, the following things may be of help:

- As said, only use highest quality 100% cotton rag paper, as it is one the most durable forms of paper with a very pure cellulose content and thus practically lignin free. Cotton rag documents have survived from the middle ages in remarkably good condition...

- Frame all of your Pt/Pd prints behind glass, especially 100% Platinum prints. Although it is probably very tempting to have a matt print like Pt/Pd framed without glass, it will pose a long term thread. Framing isolates the Pt/Pd print from harmful gasses, especially the sulphurdioxide (SO2) that may be catalyzed by Platinum to harmful sulphuric acid.

Luckily, SO2 emissions have gone down considerably over the past 20 years or so in the West (see my previous post above), meaning current conditions are unlike the Victorian industrial age smog ridden cities (or as recent as 1952 London), where many of the most severely affected Pt/Pd prints might date from. Still, we are not down to pre-industrial age clean air, and situations in some parts of the world are undoubtedly still bad.

- Print 100% Palladium prints. This is only a partial solution, but since Palladium seems not to facilitate the catalyst conversion of SO2 to sulphuric acid, you will have reduced the chances of serious acidification as per described issue 1), although this is by no means a guarantee that no acidification at all will take place in the very long run, just that it will be much slower. CalciumCarbonate containing papers will reduce ill effects as well, by providing an alkaline buffer.

- Employ the best clearing and washing techniques. Clearing in Pt/Pd printing, but also other Iron based processes like VanDyke Brown, removes the Iron sensitizer after exposure. This is a vital step in the processing of Pt/Pd prints, especially for the long term survival of the print. Any retained Iron in the print may cause harm, although full removal of all iron is probably impossible (see remarks above), but safe levels are obtainable.

A good recommendation is the process described by Mike Ware in this article:

Chemicals required for the Processing Solutions
• Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid disodium salt, Na2Edta (pH 3-4)
• Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid tetrasodium salt, Na4Edta (pH 9)
• Kodak 'Hypoclear' powder or sodium metabisulphite or sulphite

1 Disodium Edta (5% w/v) 10 mins
2 Rinse in water half min
3 Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent (working) 10 mins
4 Rinse in water half min
5 Tetrasodium Edta(5% w/v) 10 mins
6 Wash in running water minimum 30 mins

Please note though:

* It is of vital importance to wash out all EDTA in the final washing cycle. EDTA is what is called a "chelating agent", it binds with the Iron (both Fe2+ and Fe3+) as present in the sensitizers, and forms rather soluble complexes that can be washed out. However, EDTA-Iron complexes, can still induce Hydroxyl radical formation as described in issue 2), and hence may still cause damage if left in the paper. It is therefore vital to properly wash the prints and remove all complexed Iron/EDTA.

* All chelators like EDTA, and the in paper conservation world used Calcium- or MagnesiumPhytate chelators, preferentially complex with Fe2+. In addition, Fe3+ can form some less soluble compounds compared to Fe2+ and probably binds to the cellulose fibres. See remark below by Mike Ware regarding Fe3+ cations and it's lesser solubility compared to Fe2+:

"That may be because it's quite strongly bound to the cellulose via vicinal -OH groups, - or if Fe(III) hydrolysis has proceeded very far (a complex process) it may be macromolecular "hydrated ferric oxide" physically trapped in the cellulose microfibrils. Eventually it turns into the highly insoluble mineral, Goethite FeO(OH). Any, all, or none of these hypotheses may be correct!"

This all means that if any Iron is left in the print after proper clearing and washing, it is most likely Fe3+ species.

- To ensure proper removal of Fe3+ a SodiumDithionite/EDTA bath might used. SodiumDithionite is a reducing agent with a neutral pH, that will convert any Fe3+ to Fe2+, allowing it to be more easily washed out together with the EDTA (See "A Conservation Treatment to Remove Residual Iron from Platinum Prints", and the short reference to the function of SodiumDithionite on the Ink Corrosion website here).

- Use Bathophenanthroline Indicator Paper for testing for remaining Fe2+ (will not detect Fe3+) and thus for effective clearing in Platino/Palladiotypes. These indicator strips are used in the paper conservator world, and it seems they might potentially be a valuable new instrument for Pt/Pd printers. They seem to be very sensitive, capable of detecting just 1ppm (part per million) Iron according to the page here.

The usage of Bathophenanthroline Indicator Paper is described in this PDF document on the Iron Gall Ink Corrosion website.

They can be bought at: http://www.preservationequipment.com called "Iron Gall Ink Test Paper":
http://www.preservationequipment.co...ials/Other-Materials/Iron-Gall-Ink-Test-Paper

This test could serve as a Pt/Pd equivalent of a "residual-silver" test as employed by traditional silver gelatine printers for testing of adequate fixing of silverhalides from silver gelatine papers.

NOTE1: Since the test strips only detect free Fe2+ cations, not free Fe3+, use of a SodiumDithionite bath as described before might be good to ensure as much as possible conversion of the Fe3+ to Fe2+ cations, although according to Mike Ware in this article, the SodiumSulphite or Hypo Clearing Agent, will serve to this purpose as well, although maybe not as effective as SodiumDithionite:

"Clearing of the residual iron compounds from the paper is improved by immersion next in a bath of Kodak Hypoclearing Agent interposed between the two Edta baths; alternatively a solution of sodium sulphite can be used. The inorganic sulphite in this tends to reduce any residual iron(III) to iron(II) which is then removed in the final tetrasodium Edta bath; the advantage is that these last two baths have a high pH (ca. 9) which is optimum for complexation of iron(II) and leaves the paper in a beneficial alkaline condition. The wet-processing sequence is summarised below."

NOTE2: Bathophenanthroline Indicator Paper may also be of use to other iron-based alternative processes, like VanDyke Brown, for the same purpose.

- There may be a small case for a CalciumPhytate or MagnesiumPhytate treatment as an alternative to EDTA, or as for example the second bath after a first EDTA clearing bath. CalciumPhytate and MagnesiumPhytate have been used in the paper conservator world (See here for CalciumPhytate or here for MagnesiumPhytate) to remove free destructive Iron from Iron Gall ink written documents. Both leave, when properly executed, the paper at very favourable pH of about neutral, and the working solutions themselves are close to neutral. In addition, Iron/Phytate complexes seem to be almost inert, meaning any complex left in the paper, is pretty harmless. On the contrary of all this, the treatment with Phytate may be a bit more laborious, and Iron/Phytate may be less soluble and hence more difficult to wash out compared to Iron/EDTA complexes.

Detailed instructions for preparing and using CalciumPhytate can be found on the Ink Corrosion website.

Marco
 
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Marco B

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Important CORRECTIONS to my conclusions

Hi all,

Mike Ware was kind enough to give some remarks on my last set of conclusions.

Especially noteworthy of course the remark about papers having an alkaline CalciumCarbonate buffer. While they may be good from a point of longevity of the paper base, as Mike points out, they are "disastrous" for the iron sensitizer itself, making it difficult if impossible to get good prints at all in the iron based processes, so this topic should be skipped.

Of course there may be a case for an alkaline Calcium(Bi-?)carbonate bath after the print has been completely processed to restore a slightly alkaline buffer (as is mentioned on the linked Iron Corrosion website), but that is a different story...

Upon my request, he has also given some more information on the possible use of SodiumDithionite/EDTA bath and how to employ it.

Many thanks to Mike Ware for these further comments.

*** Mike Ware's comments ***

Sodium dithionite becomes a much more powerful reducing agent in alkaline solution.
Sodium dithionite is unstable in acidic solution, decomposing to thiosulphate and bisulphite.
The complex formation between Fe(II) and EDTA is a maximum in alkali (~pH 10).

So to get the best reduction of Fe(III) to Fe(II) and removal of Fe(II) as chelate, one must therefore use alkaline solution.
That means, effectively, using Na4EDTA not Na2EDTA.
Rees and Gent started by using Na2EDTA (possibly, they didn't have any Na4EDTA) and adjusted the pH by addition of NaOH. They found rather little iron-removal action at pH 6.5 and much more at pH 8.5. (I won't go into the additional conservation reasons why they tried the lower pH).

My present recommendation is simple:

A solution that is 2.5% in Sodium Dithionite and 2.5% in Tetrasodium EDTA, which should result in a suitable pH around 8.5, with no need for adjustment.
Treat for half to one hour. Stronger solutions could be used, but this is economic and effective, and should be frequently changed, if one is treating a lot of work.

If you are editing your article, could I just point out a couple of things?

The word you need in the intro paragraph is "threat" not "thread".

In 1) NOTE: the absence of catalytic activity with palladium is NOT PROVEN so far as I know. I have just not seen any evidence of it, that is all. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

In -Print 100% Palladium prints : the recommendation of calcium carbonate containing papers is disastrous for all the iron-based processes because it promotes hydrolysis of the iron(III) photosensitizer. This advice completely defeats the original purpose! If you practiced any of these processes, you would know to pre-treat your paper with acid to DESTROY any calcium carbonate. Talk to Loris about this. I only use papers guaranteed not to contain calcium carbonate.

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donbga

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So let's see if a beginner in Pd-Pt printing understands the content of this dialogue. There's reason to believe that the metallic platinum in Pd-Pt prints catalyzes SO2 to SO3 and hence to sulphuric acid. The process doesn't work with buffered paper, it has to be acidified first. Hydrochloric acid or the oxalate developers do that. At the end, you wash it thoroughly and get it neutral. Couldn't one buffer it again? With what?
A soak in a weak solution of sodium carbonate will do the trick. I believe there maybe a reference to that in Dick Arentz's book.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about it. The bigger concern is to properly clear the paper of residual iron salts. Using a hypo clearing agent may adjust the pH of the paper also.
 

doughowk

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I notice that when heating the Potassium Oxalate to 110f, the Palladium print is cleared almost immediately. I still process thru 3 clearing baths of 30 grams tetra EDTA, 15 grams citric acid & 15 grams Sodium Sulfite per liter.
 
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Marco B

Marco B

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LATEST VERSION OF ARTICLE

Hi all,

I have now updated and rewritten my set of conclusions on the longevity of Platinum / Palladium prints. It is now a more accessible and complete "article", with a proper introduction and a few more pieces of background.

There have been a number of significant changes, and I therefore consider the above posts OBSOLETE.

Please download the latest version that I attached here if you would like to read it.

LINK TO PDF DOCUMENT:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Marco
 

doughowk

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I read somewhere that the addition of sodium sulfite to tetra EDTA effectively created disodium EDTA. Can anyone confirm this? Disodium EDTA is rather expensive, which motivates my question.
 

Loris Medici

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You can add citric acid to Na4.EDTA *until you reach pH 3-4*, only then you can use it as the first clearing bath. Sodium sulfite and Na4.EDTA are both alkaline in solution, therefore, that (I mean combining the two) won't work the way you've thought!

Regards,
Loris.
 
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Marco B

Marco B

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I read somewhere that the addition of sodium sulfite to tetra EDTA effectively created disodium EDTA. Can anyone confirm this? Disodium EDTA is rather expensive, which motivates my question.

Hi Doug,

I forwarded your question to Mike Ware. Here is his answer:

"No, it doesn't. This is an issue of pH. The way to create a solution of Na2EDTA from Na4EDTA is to dissolve the free acid, H4EDTA itself, in it, in equimolar amount."

Marco
 
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