Long lasting D-23

[squinonescolon]

Can a solution of D-23 be made that is syrup in consistency and long lasting like hc-110
Steven

 

[2F/2F]

Good question

 

[john_s]

The solubility of sodium sulphite is something like 200g/L so double strength would be about the limit.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I think a good shelf life is not necessarily a matter of concentration, but a matter of using the right solvent. Mix it with an organic solvent, like propylene glycol or TEA, and it will last almost forever. The developing agent(s) cannot oxidize if there's no water.

I'm not sure whether metol is soluble in glycol. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it isn't. If I remember correctly (which I cannot guarantee), the sulfate isn't, but the free base is, so you have to convert it to the free base prior to dissolving it. Search for Patrick Gainer's articles and/or forum posts; there was something on this subject there.

 

[pcyco]

hallo

how long do you want to store it??
my d23 is in a half full bottle since 6 months and work well (tried yesterday).
why not storing the powders and mix it up when you need it?? 1 liter or so. then use it for one shot. and then mix the next.

thomas

 

[jeffzeitlin]

I would be very interested in knowing if anyone has mixed D23 in PP Glycol?
I am setting up divived D23 development in a Nitrogen Burst system - I plan on replenishing the solutions in the tank - using a PP Gycol mixing base would seem beneficial.

 

[Relayer]

I would be very interested in knowing if anyone has mixed D23 in PP Glycol?

Sodium Sulfite can't be dissolved in glycol

 

[squinonescolon]

My main interest is in having a concentrate that I can use ala HC-110. I take a lot of photographs and I like the ability of just diluting a syrup with the right temperature water and you're ready to go. If I mix D-23 beforehand I still have to get it up or down to temperature depending on the season as my darkroom is hot or cold, and if I have to mix it from scratch I have to wait even longer to get the temperature down to 68 deg. So is all about convenience which HC-110 affords. But I like smooth tonality with no grain and with HC-110 I can see a little bit of grain (small but noticeable) at 20x24 from 4x5 film, whereby I can do that size and not notice it with D-23.
Steven

 

[georgegrosu]

How said pcyco, D 23 (metol / sodium sulphite) is a developer fairly stable over time.
I personally make all my developers from raw chemicals.
I have not experience with developer syrup - HC-110.
I still appreciate that any developer that you use for large dilutions you not obtain performance like basic solution developer. Moreover, D 23, having only metol and sulphite, ph is reduced. If you are more dilute than risking that they can not work metol.
George

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Metol is not very soluble in sodium sulfite solutions which is why you usually find the instruction to dissolve it before the sodium sulfite. What may happen when you try to make the solution more concentrated is for the Metol to precipitate. Sorry but you can't make a syrup from D-23.

HC-110 is an atypical formula in that it contains no water. It contains an adduct of sulfur dioxide and either TEA or DEA. Besides containing hydroquinone the other developing agent is Dimezone-S and not Metol.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Agfa Studinol

Water (50 C) 500 ml
Potassiun sufite (anhyd) 160 g
Hydroquinone 40/ g
Phenidone 5 g
Triethanolamine 400 ml
Potassium bromide 15 g
Water to make 1 l

This formula is said to be very close to the Agfa Studinol (Rodinal Special). It is a concentrated developer and is diluted 1+15. Agitate continuously for the first minute and then once every 30 seconds. Use the Agfa recpmmended development times.

The used developer can be used again for up to 12 films using the following chart:

For each liter of diluted developer, develop the first two rolls for the specified time.

Idle Time Extend development by
--------------------------------
1-3 days 5%
4-8 days 10%
1-2 weeks 15%
over 2 weeks 20%

The formula was published on a German website.

 

[pcyco]

hallo

the mixing of d-23 is soooo easy.
2 chems in hot water then ice water to fill up.

i store it in the fridge. 8°C
i take 1 part water 32°C and i part d23 at 8°C. ready with 20°C.

otherwise in the summer maybe.
d23 at 30 deg then cold water at 10 deg -> ready 20 deg.

in this or the other way you need water with the right temp.
also in your way with the hc110 sirup

and pöeas!!! put a fridge in your darkroom, maybe a friend comes and want to drink cold beer

greetings from the office

thomas

 

[Jerevan]

No, I don't think you can make D23 as a longlasting syrup. But what about doing it replenished, with DK-25R? I only know the recipe exists, so I can't give you anything else but the compass direction.

Another idea if you need less grain is to use some sort of staining developer like Rollo Pyro, Pyro PMK, etc. Another idea would be replenished XTOL.

Here's a thread about the longevity of D23:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)