Lomography Cameras - Where do they get their shutters made?

[kkuehn]

Does anyone know where Lomography manufactures their shutters for cameras like the Lubitel 166? They almost certainly don't manufacture the shutters and lenses themselves, so where do they get them? Trying to find a supplier for shutters for a project I have in mind, but seems all the big brands have shut down long ago such as Copal.

Thanks,

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

The Lubitel and Lomo cameras were originally made in Russia, but I think they're being made in China now. I guess the Chinese factory that makes them probably makes the shutters.

 

[kkuehn]

Do you know the specific factory? Would be interested to try and source some of these components independently.

 

[xkaes]

Lomo (actually GOZ in Russian for "Factory of State Optics") was founded in 1914 in Leningrad. It made cameras and lenses but only a couple of cameras actually had the "LOMO" name on them.

Lomorgrraphy is a 21st century business and photographic community that is another entity completely. The company sells cameras and lenses -- made in China -- but, as with GOZ, only a couple actually have the "LOMO" name on them.

So you need to be specific about what camera(s) you are referring to. There are old Lubitel TLR cameras that were made in the Soviet Union from the 1940's to the 1980's, and there are newer ones made in China that are completely different -- but have the same name.

 

[xya]

...Lomorgrraphy is a 21st century business and photographic community that is another entity completely. The company sells cameras and lenses -- made in China -- but, as with GOZ, only a couple actually have the "LOMO" name on them...

That's a bit short. Lomography was founded in 1992 as a group around the Lomo LC-A camera, which made exhibitions, but also sold the camera, made in Russia. When Lomo ended the production of the LC-A in 1994, Lomography made them revive the LC-A in 1995 until 2005 and sold these cameras exclusively. The production was then moved to China and since 2006 it's the Chinese + model with superior features, but inferior quality.

In 1998 they sold the first Chinese Cameras under their name (Actionsampler). In 2007 they re-launched the Diana from the 60s as a + model with much better features, but still with the cheap Chinese quality.

 

[kkuehn]

Lomo (actually GOZ in Russian or "Factory of State Optics") was founded in 1914 in Leningrad. It made cameras and lenses but only a couple of cameras actually had the "LOMO" name on them.

Lomorgrraphy is a 21st century business and photographic community that is another entity completely. The company sells cameras and lenses -- made in China -- but, as with GOZ, only a couple actually have the "LOMO" name on them.

So you need to be specific about what camera(s) you are referring to. There are old Lubitel TLR cameras that were made in the Soviet Union from the 1940's to the 1980's, and there are newer ones made in China that are completely different -- but have the same name.

Yea, I'm referring to the new production cameras from Lomography (the 21st century company). Which company in China manufactures these cameras now?

But aside from the history of the Lomo brand, really my question is: where can I get new production mechanical shutter assemblies? In all my searching, I really only know of Leica and Lomography that make new production mechanical cameras. Leica obviously uses proprietary shutters, but maybe those Chinese manufacturers sell these shutter a-la-carte. Thanks.

 

[xya]

The question still remains, to which cameras do you refer? Most Lomography cameras have a single speed shutter of ~1/100. That's a pretty simple plastic mechanical shutter. You can buy the cameras at ~3€ piece and dismount the shutter. The shutters of the LC-A and its 120 clone are electronic and the cameras are quite expensive, more expensive than a standard and reliable Compur (or other brand) shutter.

 

[Richard Man]

MiNT camera is building their own shutters for their Rollei AF that supposed to come out this year. Whether they will be successful or not is yet to be seen. I hope so. Making shutters is hard.

 

[kkuehn]

The question still remains, to which cameras do you refer? Most Lomography cameras have a single speed shutter of ~1/100. That's a pretty simple plastic mechanical shutter. You can buy the cameras at ~3€ piece and dismount the shutter. The shutters of the LC-A and its 120 clone are electronic and the cameras are quite expensive, more expensive than a standard and reliable Compur (or other brand) shutter.

Sure there are ways to DIY a simple shutter like that. I'm talking about the more complex shutter assemblies that require a level of precision that is not realistically attainable for home production. Wondering if there still exist shutter manufacturers like Compur used to be, or if all modern companies like MiNT make them in-house. Preferably where I could buy them for use in my own projects. Would ideally be looking for a medium format focal plane shutter, but interested to see if any 3rd party shutter manufacturers exist. Thanks

 

[kkuehn]

Making shutters is hard.

This is what is limiting right now, I'm sure I could design and build one (I have access to a full machine shop), but not really willing to invest the time. Also considering using a replacement shutter assembly for a DSLR and hacking it. Would rather use an actual part number from a manufacturer with stable supply chain. Also prefer mechanical because that is cooler.

 

[xya]

Nidec-Copal still makes shutters and Seiko still makes components AFAIK...

 

[kkuehn]

Nidec-Copal still makes shutters and Seiko still makes components AFAIK...

I contacted Nidec-Copal and they only do R&D services for custom shutter designs starting at minimum project budget of $1 million (slightly outside my budget, unfortunately ). They don't stock any standard off the shelf designs.

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

Focal plane shutters are extremely rudimentary from a design and implementation standpoint. Pop open a brownie and take a look. Adding an escapement for varying the speed geometrically or operating a leaf shutter arrangement is barely any more difficult but may require more precise machining.

Insofar as current manufacturers, it's probably some some guy being paid $0.56 / hour to operate an injection molding machine. There's been at least one recent entrant into the market that might be able to provide some insight into a more modern, electronically controlled shutter assembly in the Alfie.

 

[kkuehn]

Focal plane shutters are extremely rudimentary from a design and implementation standpoint. Pop open a brownie and take a look. Adding an escapement for varying the speed geometrically or operating a leaf shutter arrangement is barely any more difficult but may require more precise machining.

Insofar as current manufacturers, it's probably some some guy being paid $0.56 / hour to operate an injection molding machine. There's been at least one recent entrant into the market that might be able to provide some insight into a more modern, electronically controlled shutter assembly in the Alfie.

I think perhaps you misunderstood, I'm looking for a focal plane shutter where the shutter is just in front of the film, not the rotary aperature shutter like a brownie has. Afaik there are generally two types of focal plane shutter, rolling double curtain (like original leicas) and the modern multi blade vertical shutters. Leaf shutters too are complex with many small gears, there is probably a reason Seiko built watches too. None of these shutter designs that feature multiple speeds past anything about 1/30s seem particularly easy to build and implement reliably, but if you want to design one and open source it then please do so!

I'm fully aware that someone in some third world country is building these cameras. I just want to know who so I can buy some of those blood shutters!

 

[Romanko]

Optical Shutters | Motorized Shutters | Edmund Optics

Shutters are used to control the level of light exposure in an optical lens, microscopy, or laser optics system. ✓ Shop now with Edmund Optics!

www.edmundoptics.com.au

I don't know who makes the shutters for Edmundoptics but I doubt they manufacture them themselves. These shutters are pricey but they are probably a fraction of the price if you buy them from the manufacturer. How many do you need?

 

[Romanko]

Sinar is/was another manufacturer of electronic shutters.

https://www.galerie-photo.com/manuels/sinar-shutter-system.pdf

Not sure if they are still produced.

 

[kkuehn]

Optical Shutters | Motorized Shutters | Edmund Optics

Shutters are used to control the level of light exposure in an optical lens, microscopy, or laser optics system. ✓ Shop now with Edmund Optics!

www.edmundoptics.com.au

I don't know who makes the shutters for Edmundoptics but I doubt they manufacture them themselves. These shutters are pricey but they are probably a fraction of the price if you buy them from the manufacturer. How many do you need?

Small quantities, 1-10 to start for prototyping. Didn't read too deeply, but most of the time those Edmund optics shutters and similiar for laser work actuate too slowly.

 

[blee1996]

Let me ping Hugo Zhang (Chamonix large format camera distributor in US) if he knows anything from the Chinese camera industry.

 

[kkuehn]

Let me ping Hugo Zhang (Chamonix large format camera distributor in US) if he knows anything from the Chinese camera industry.

I wasn't aware of that brand, they make some beautiful cameras. I noticed that their product images feature shutters like the Copal 0. Can't wait to hear his input.

 

[kkuehn]

Found this company after a bit more searching: https://packardshutter.com/

Still not the multiple speed compact focal plane shutter that I'm after, but interesting and dare I say affordable at the least.

 

[Romanko]

They have an electric version in which a solenoid replaces the piston. If you add a simple circuit you get an electronically controlled shutter. Most likely you will need a car battery to drive the solenoid.

 

[blee1996]

Sorry to disappoint but Hugo did not know any shutter manufacturer in China.

On another note, there is this inexpensive German-made shutter that you might experiment with?

SALE! GERMAN ELECTRIC SHUTTER for WOOD FIELD VIEW CAMERA BRASS LENS 8X10 5X7 | eBay

ABOUT THE SHUTTER: 40MM ELECTRONIC 24VDC SHUTTER ASSEMBLY (EM3259). The shutter stays open for as long as 12V power is applied using the dark blue and red wires only. I have operated it with the 12V power cord of an electric shaver at the solenoid itself.

www.ebay.com

 

[aw614]

This is what is limiting right now, I'm sure I could design and build one (I have access to a full machine shop), but not really willing to invest the time. Also considering using a replacement shutter assembly for a DSLR and hacking it. Would rather use an actual part number from a manufacturer with stable supply chain. Also prefer mechanical because that is cooler.

Would using a DSLR shutter be light tight? based on what I've seen on DSLR shutters, you'd have to do similar modifications to what Cosina did to their rangefinders that were based on the CT1?

But I do recall my local tab tech was was experimenting with some stuff and bought a sony a7 shutter to try to make something, but I haven't heard any progress in over a year.

 

[kkuehn]

Would using a DSLR shutter be light tight? based on what I've seen on DSLR shutters, you'd have to do similar modifications to what Cosina did to their rangefinders that were based on the CT1?

But I do recall my local tab tech was was experimenting with some stuff and bought a sony a7 shutter to try to make something, but I haven't heard any progress in over a year.

A cursory look at the CT1 shows that it uses a vertical metal blade shutter made by Compur, very similar to the modern shutter designs used in DSLRs. It is specifically the Compur Square shutter which was a drop in unit used in many cameras because it was simple and reliable and reduced development costs. This is exactly what I'm looking for, except Compur stopped producing them long ago.

I'd think that all DSLR shutters operate exactly like old film shutters, being that they wouldn't be much good as a shutter if they let light through.

 

[JPD]

On another note, there is this inexpensive German-made shutter that you might experiment with?

SALE! GERMAN ELECTRIC SHUTTER for WOOD FIELD VIEW CAMERA BRASS LENS 8X10 5X7 | eBay

ABOUT THE SHUTTER: 40MM ELECTRONIC 24VDC SHUTTER ASSEMBLY (EM3259). The shutter stays open for as long as 12V power is applied using the dark blue and red wires only. I have operated it with the 12V power cord of an electric shaver at the solenoid itself.

www.ebay.com

Very simple shutter for being German. Just a shutter blade assembly and a solenoid. How fast is can be would be up to the solenoid and the electrical impulse. Maybe a mini computer could be used as a controller.