Lomochrome Purple is infectious to regular color film

wtburton · Apr 21, 2022

I developed my first roll of lomochrome purple recently, it was the last of many rolls, so I put it in with the roll of old expired color film. (I dont normally do two at once, but I was tired)

I was kind of surprised to see when I took it out of the tank, that it had a very purple band running down the center of the regular color negative. The sides of the film look normal.

Things to note:
It was not the old color film, as I developed all other rolls of the same batch and they were normal.

I process in a modified ECN-2 recipe with ~8 times the normal amount of carbonate, increasing the PH a ton. (this increases dye formation a ton)

I dont know if anyone else has had this issue? from now on I will process lomo purple separately in a different dev batch.

mshchem · Apr 22, 2022

So the Lomography film is actually purple?? Must be some sort of dye? That's crazy that it's migrated into another film.

MattKing · Apr 22, 2022

The modified ECN-2 process may also have contributed to the issue.
What was the other film?

AgX · Apr 22, 2022

It is hard to explain that any affect from one film to another should just take place in such band.

wtburton · Apr 22, 2022

MattKing said:
The modified ECN-2 process may also have contributed to the issue.
What was the other film?

High PH will cause higher contrast in B&W films, and in color film it causes higher dye formation (and a bit of contrast). I assume that the Lomochrome Purple film had so much excess dye that it leaked out and got absorbed by the regular color film.

If I had more color film and lomochrome to spare, it would be interesting to see if you could remove some of the purple dye stuff with a bath of concentrated washing soda, and then "purplize" a normal image. I will process 3 rolls of the stuff in a separate developer and see if this happens? Do both films need to be together? I dont know really.

It was some generic old color film "Focal Color 400" from 1980ish, I had like 4 or 5 rolls I have shot. I have two yet to develop. All the previous rolls did not have this very odd purple band in them.

wtburton · Apr 22, 2022

AgX said:
It is hard to explain that any affect from one film to another should just take place in such band.

My guess is that its more staining the negative than actually changing the couplers. This results in a very nasty color balance in the inverted image that hard to correct. I dont know why it formed a center band, absorption is weird. I dont believe its fog because I have tested this film before, its all the same. I would test with a fresher source but I lack material

pentaxuser · Apr 22, 2022

I don't suppose that in the instructions for processing, assuming there are any, that Lomography warn against developing any "normal" C41 film with it? If they don't, then does that pre-suppose that it doesn't expect there to be any leakage of purple use with ordinary C41 film or that your alteration to the ECN-2 chemicals is the root cause?

I presume that the standard ECN-2 process does not cause this kind of a problem with films that are designed for C41 processing?

I must admit I hadn't heard of anyone saying that ECN-2 did cause any problem with films designed for C41 processing

pentaxuser

Patrick Robert James · Apr 22, 2022

Perhaps you should have asked a question instead of making a statement. There are so many problems here that stating an absolute conclusion like in your title is irresponsible.

Only happened on one roll of film.
Expired from the 80s.
Cross processed.
Bastardized process too.
"last of many" through the developer.
Never do two at a time. Did you have enough developer in the tank?
And looking at the neg, possible lack of agitation.

From the neg you show it just looks like poor development of really old film that was underexposed and developed in a process it wasn't designed for, and your chems might even be exhausted. If there was carryover from the LOMO film then the whole neg would have tended towards the green, not the magenta that the center is, but color couplers dispersed in a developer would be so dilute I don't see how they could affect another film. Like I said, the film is just really old. Color film from the 80s, even if it was frozen, is going to have color shifts and will exhibit the striping, even if developed correctly. Almost all the old films I find in cameras exhibit the striping. I just see so many issues that would easily explain the problem that blaming the LOMO film is about the last thing that would cause your neg to look that way.

MattKing · Apr 22, 2022

I wonder if the old film might also be designed for C-22, not C-41 (or ECN-2).

wtburton · Apr 22, 2022

MattKing said:
I wonder if the old film might also be designed for C-22, not C-41 (or ECN-2).

You cannot do C-22 in hot temp it will destroy it, this stuff is C-41

wtburton · Apr 22, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Perhaps you should have asked a question instead of making a statement. There are so many problems here that stating an absolute conclusion like in your title is irresponsible.

Only happened on one roll of film.
Expired from the 80s.
Cross processed.
Bastardized process too.
"last of many" through the developer.
Never do two at a time. Did you have enough developer in the tank?
And looking at the neg, possible lack of agitation.

From the neg you show it just looks like poor development of really old film that was underexposed and developed in a process it wasn't designed for, and your chems might even be exhausted. If there was carryover from the LOMO film then the whole neg would have tended towards the green, not the magenta that the center is, but color couplers dispersed in a developer would be so dilute I don't see how they could affect another film. Like I said, the film is just really old. Color film from the 80s, even if it was frozen, is going to have color shifts and will exhibit the striping, even if developed correctly. Almost all the old films I find in cameras exhibit the striping. I just see so many issues that would easily explain the problem that blaming the LOMO film is about the last thing that would cause your neg to look that way.

1. stated that I had developed the previous Focal color rolls of the same batch came out normally in my process. I have developed hundreds of rolls of expired film, many older than this, some even in E-2, none of this exhibit such banding.

2. the change only occurred with lomochrome development
3. The developer was fresh mixed that day, only 7 rolls through it. I have done more and its been fine.
4. "cross processing" is a made up term. All color films that produce an image from dye can be developed by CD3.
5. Labs do plenty at a time, and if this film can possibly damage other films, thats an issue.

> If there was carryover from the LOMO film then the whole neg would have tended towards the green
When I get home I will post an image of both films next to each other. Lomochrome purple is composed of three color dyes. I dont know which leaked out and stained mine. You also have to understand that the staining of the film may have started from the edges too, and the center of the film is least affected. This might be more plausible, because I notice the same pattern of absorption when bleaching very dense B&W negatives.

I plan to develop more film this weekend. I will develop half of the same roll without the lomo purple in a clean dev, and the other half with a roll of lomo purple. I am confident that I am correct though, as I have developed the same Focal color film before and no such banding has ever occurred. Nay, I have never seen such a banding.

wtburton · Apr 22, 2022

1: Affected color film (dense, pushed bc it was indoors)
2: Lomochrome purple (also pushed)
3: Unaffected color film

number 4 is scanning the strip in the middle that is not affected, it comes out normal.

You can see the normal color film starts taking on a lomochrome purple appearance on the edges. The actual lomochrome picture looks like a mirror image of the correct color image.

affected lomo purple unaffected

My theory is that Lomochrome Purple has some sort of coating or dye that comes off in the dev that ended up staining the regular film? Not really sure what caused it.

Sirius Glass · Apr 22, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Perhaps you should have asked a question instead of making a statement. There are so many problems here that stating an absolute conclusion like in your title is irresponsible.

Only happened on one roll of film.
Expired from the 80s.
Cross processed.
Bastardized process too.
"last of many" through the developer.
Never do two at a time. Did you have enough developer in the tank?
And looking at the neg, possible lack of agitation.

From the neg you show it just looks like poor development of really old film that was underexposed and developed in a process it wasn't designed for, and your chems might even be exhausted. If there was carryover from the LOMO film then the whole neg would have tended towards the green, not the magenta that the center is, but color couplers dispersed in a developer would be so dilute I don't see how they could affect another film. Like I said, the film is just really old. Color film from the 80s, even if it was frozen, is going to have color shifts and will exhibit the striping, even if developed correctly. Almost all the old films I find in cameras exhibit the striping. I just see so many issues that would easily explain the problem that blaming the LOMO film is about the last thing that would cause your neg to look that way.

+1

grat · Apr 22, 2022

No wonder it went viral among the youtube community..........

... I'll get me coat.

foc · Apr 23, 2022

The image f the two ladies and the colour cast at the sides reminds me of film that was affected by heat and/or damp.

ludwighagelstein · Apr 23, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Perhaps you should have asked a question instead of making a statement. There are so many problems here that stating an absolute conclusion like in your title is irresponsible.

Only happened on one roll of film.
Expired from the 80s.
Cross processed.
Bastardized process too.
"last of many" through the developer.
Never do two at a time. Did you have enough developer in the tank?
And looking at the neg, possible lack of agitation.

From the neg you show it just looks like poor development of really old film that was underexposed and developed in a process it wasn't designed for, and your chems might even be exhausted. If there was carryover from the LOMO film then the whole neg would have tended towards the green, not the magenta that the center is, but color couplers dispersed in a developer would be so dilute I don't see how they could affect another film. Like I said, the film is just really old. Color film from the 80s, even if it was frozen, is going to have color shifts and will exhibit the striping, even if developed correctly. Almost all the old films I find in cameras exhibit the striping. I just see so many issues that would easily explain the problem that blaming the LOMO film is about the last thing that would cause your neg to look that way.

THIS AND ONLY THIS. Thanks for this answer. Btw: The band is probably due to storage and some sort of contamination on the emulsion creeping in, like gaseous formaldehyde from a wooden drawer affecting the couplers and so on and on. Old film is unpredictable.

gone · Apr 23, 2022

I know this doesn't address your problem, but I'm going to stop developing more than 1 roll of film at a time. Too many times, one roll is fine, one roll has issues, and w/ 2 rolls, it just confuses things.

Instead of focusing on what went wrong w/ the 1 roll, I start thinking "well, the one roll was OK, so surely it's not the developing", but I don't actually know that, it's just my guess.

Since it really is impossible to know what went wrong inside a sealed tank unless you stumble upon something obvious, you have to resort to guessing. Meanwhile, maybe 1 roll w/ some great images on it has been wasted. It's not worth the small convenience of saving a little time doing 2 rolls.

pentaxuser · Apr 23, 2022

So are we all of the opinion that Lomography Purple does not, per se, infect other film with its purple? That's key here for the OP and anyone of us who might want to combine two films( Lomography Purple and ordinary film ) in the tank?

pentaxuser

woodlandSerenade · Apr 23, 2022

pentaxuser said:
So are we all of the opinion that Lomography Purple does not, per se, infect other film with its purple? That's key here for the OP and anyone of us who might want to combine two films( Lomography Purple and ordinary film ) in the tank?

pentaxuser

I've processed Lomochrome Purple alongside normal C41 film multiple times with no ill effects.

pentaxuser · Apr 23, 2022

woodlandSerenade said:
I've processed Lomochrome Purple alongside normal C41 film multiple times with no ill effects.

Thanks for that. Let any dissenter speak now with evidence or forever hold his peace as they say at weddings. Then we can really conclude that the problem lay with the old film, if we can conclude that the chemistry was as fresh for this last 2 films as had been the case with the series of the other successfully processed films, can't we?

Not the conclusion the OP reached initially, of course but I take it that really he has progressed to the point where he is now asking for the correct conclusion rather than confirmation of his conclusion?

pentaxuser

NB23 · Apr 23, 2022

Well, the other day I have developed 28 films within 2 days, with a 1L cinestill kit.

20 rolls of Lomo purple and 8 fuji c200. I have not noticed anything abnormal on the fuji’s surface regarding weird colors...
I sill have to scan the bunch but I doubt there will be issues.

Huss · Apr 23, 2022

I like the results.
Own it.

Lomochrome Purple is infectious to regular color film

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