Lodima vs. Galerie - first observations

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I made my first 8x10 contact prints last week on Lodima grade 4. After all of Michael Smith's hoopla about chloride being so much better, I also made a version of one of the prints on my usual enlarging paper to see the big deal difference. My standby until now has been Ilford Galerie grade 3. The developer was a 10g Amidol brew that used benzotriazole instead of bromide. My first impressions:

-The two papers have nearly identical contrast. If there's a difference, it's less than 1/4 grade. Very convenient for negatives that need to be both contact printed and enlarged.

-Lodima is slightly warm, and gallery is notably cool. The color difference side by side is not subtle. I prefer cool tones, so am going to develop my negatives to less contrast so I can use more benzotriazole in the print developer to cool it off more. More restrainer means more contrast, of course, thus the recalibration of negatives.

-The Lodima print does have an intangible, greater dimensionality than Galerie, which looked subjectively more flat, even though the contrast and density were matched between the prints. Next to the Lodima print, Galerie looked more like a reproduction. Next to the Galerie, it looks like you can jump into the Lodima print.

-The Lodima print has a much blacker black. I was especially impressed here. By comparison, The Galerie shadow areas look a little bit dead, even though the shadow detail and separation was technically the same. Galerie blacks never looked dead to me before!

-Even though the textured light areas (a decrepit white abandoned house) were tonally the same between the prints, somehow, there was much more detail visible on the Lodima print, almost shockingly so. Fine, subtle highlight detail fuzzed together on the Galerie print. On Lodima, the finest light textures remained beautifully detailed and dimensional. Technically, I have no idea how the paper can affect this - it's the same high quality, contact-printed 8x10 process.

- Maximum pure white appears to be the same, with maybe a slight edge to the Galerie, since even the Lodima whites look warmer.

- In the hot summertime darkroom, with an Alkali rapid fix, all prints were initially stained a little pink from the Amidol, but the Galerie much more so. The stain came out in the wash, but the Galerie took much longer to do so, and even then there are two small stained areas that never went away. My next printing session will probably switch to Sodium Thiosulfate. This supposedly fixes this issue.

-The Lodima exposure was 50 seconds with a 43w bulb and a single sheet of 216 diffusion over the reflector, 90 second development. To match that print, Galerie was 6.5 seconds with an 11 watt bulb and two sheets of 216 diffusion, 2.5 minutes development.


That's it for now. I'd be curious to hear other reports from people comparing Lodima and their enlarging paper. As far as Lodima, I love the paper - my only setback so far is getting the color I want. Hopefully I won't have to gold tone.

I'll check back in with any new findings as more images are printed. There should eventually be some Lupex arriving soon too...

-Jarin
 

Alan9940

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If you don't like warm tone, then you're probably not going to like Lupex. In my darkroom developed with MAS Amidol recipe, it's quite a bit warmer than Lodima. I love it! But, I prefer warm tone prints. Lupex contrast is about Lodima grade 4.
 

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if you like lodima now, wait 35 years :smile:
the box you are using will still be every bit as good as it is now
 

lantau

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if you like lodima now, wait 35 years :smile:
the box you are using will still be every bit as good as it is now

My enlarger came with quite a bit of ancient paper. I only ever tried one of the 'newer' Agfa Gevaert packs. Without exposure the FB paper goes all black. However, there are two unopened packs of very small format Agfa Lupex (no Gevaert) which are probably for 6x9 contacts. Any chance these two are still working? All the other paper, most of it pre-Gevaert, was opened at some point. It wasn't stored properly, the packs all smell of mildew.
 

miha

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If you don't like warm tone, then you're probably not going to like Lupex. In my darkroom developed with MAS Amidol recipe, it's quite a bit warmer than Lodima. I love it! But, I prefer warm tone prints. Lupex contrast is about Lodima grade 4.

Interesting! Lupex developed in Ilford Multigrade developer shows a very distinct cool tonality.
 

Peter Schrager

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Lodima is nice but the real magic appears when you have a great image
in 50 years no one is going to walk by your photograph and say
"wow man that print was made on Lodima grade 4"
spend your time doing comparison tests...most papers today are inflexible
all the great processing tricks are null and void with modern materials
you want a great paper try Foma 132...it kicks ass (disclaimer:warmtone)
 

removed account4

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My enlarger came with quite a bit of ancient paper. I only ever tried one of the 'newer' Agfa Gevaert packs. Without exposure the FB paper goes all black. However, there are two unopened packs of very small format Agfa Lupex (no Gevaert) which are probably for 6x9 contacts. Any chance these two are still working? All the other paper, most of it pre-Gevaert, was opened at some point. It wasn't stored properly, the packs all smell of mildew.

couldnt' tell you if they are good, you will just have to try them like everything else, or throw them out if they are spoiled from mildew.
i sometimes consult the 8-ball and often times it gives better advice than i do .. unfortunatly i missplaced it the last time i time travelled.
a bit of advice, in 2122, don't eat a full meal when you travel in the hyper loops, and make sure your luggage is marked well, they loose your luggage
as often as people lose their lunch.
 

Eric Rose

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I can't argue with what you are observing, however the prints I saw on display that were done by MAS looked flat and didn't seem to have the depth you are describing.
 

Lachlan Young

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Interesting! Lupex developed in Ilford Multigrade developer shows a very distinct cool tonality.

Same with Fomalux too. PQ Universal gives a slightly more greenish colour than Multigrade. I suspect it has a lot to do with the restrainers used in the developers.
 

DREW WILEY

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Gallerie needs full dev in Amidol to get that 3d pop. Wish Brilliant Bromide were still around - you could get that sense of depth even with snatch development. Of course, one can always resort to unsharp masking to get a lower contrast image suited to long development and wonderful microtonality. My contact frame is pin registered.
 
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Jarin Blaschke
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Gallerie needs full dev in Amidol to get that 3d pop. Wish Brilliant Bromide were still around - you could get that sense of depth even with snatch development. Of course, one can always resort to unsharp masking to get a lower contrast image suited to long development and wonderful microtonality. My contact frame is pin registered.


I developed the Galerie for 2.5 minutes, which was my customary developing time for enlargements in Ansco 130. The Lodima received 90 seconds, but the image appears immediately when it goes in the tray. MAS uses 60 seconds. Perhaps I shall try 3 minutes for Galerie next time.

Drew: What contact printing frame do you use? What is the benefit of pin registration?

J
 
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Jarin Blaschke
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I can't argue with what you are observing, however the prints I saw on display that were done by MAS looked flat and didn't seem to have the depth you are describing.

It seems Michael and Paula prefer an early 20th century/ Edward Weston style of printing, which is lower contrast, balanced, and less "graphic" than the bolder printing style that later became the fashion. Their highlights are more subdued than I prefer for my work as well. Their preference for long-scale images is evident in the very little restrainer used in the MAS Amidol formula. Nonetheless, I found that in the same formula, and at the same contrast, the Lodima paper has more subjective dimensionality, more sharpness and a greater Dmax than Galerie, if Lodima is developed for 90 seconds and Galerie for 150 seconds.

-J
 

DREW WILEY

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My equip was custom made to my specs by Warren Condit - long out of business, but the best you could get back then. I use my own amidol formula. Time runs between two and six min depending. My favorite contact paper is MGWT, which more often I enlarge. But I soup that in 130, then gold toner, or sometimes double or triple toning. Gallerie is harder to get and more a one-trick pony.
 
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Jarin Blaschke
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My equip was custom made to my specs by Warren Condit - long out of business, but the best you could get back then. I use my own amidol formula. Time runs between two and six min depending. My favorite contact paper is MGWT, which more often I enlarge. But I soup that in 130, then gold toner, or sometimes double or triple toning. Gallerie is harder to get and more a one-trick pony.

What is MGWT like in 130? By "one-trick-pony", do you mean that Galerie is less responsive to developer and toner variations? Or just that the grade is fixed?

What is the benefit of pin registration? Presumably it just lines up the paper to the neg better, but has nothing to do with holding it tighter or affecting sharpness?

J
 

DREW WILEY

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Yes, I like MGWT for its toning and contrast flexibility. I cut my teeth on graded papers, so have no problem with that. I never cared much for that Dektol greenish tinge of AA's Gallerie prints, even with selenium, and much prefer my own purer black amidol followed by gold toner. But that's just about my tonal comfort zone with this paper. Maybe I got spoiled with having choices in premium graded papers back in the day, including Seagull, Brilliant, and Portriga. I mostly enlarge, so use Gallerie conservatively due to its present high cost. Never cared much for Azo, though I've enlarged onto it too. Pin register gear is nice for keeping things precisely aligned in a film sandwich. You could tape a mask over a light box, but it's a headache.
 

msage

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I believe the pin registration holds the negative and a mask in registration not the paper.

What is the benefit of pin registration? Presumably it just lines up the paper to the neg better, but has nothing to do with holding it tighter or affecting sharpness?

J
 

DREW WILEY

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You can punch and register paper too if you wish. You can get a quite rich neutral black on MGWT if you do full dev counterintuitively in a warm dev like 130 then tone it in gold chloride. But the highlights will still be a bit warm. The trick is in learning to subtly control the split, unless you want a strong split tone. My amidol formula is very simple and economical. 500ml hot water, 20g sodium sulfate, 2g citric acid, 0.2g benzotriazole, 4g amidol. Dilute 1:3 for room temp use. Since this is a slightly acidic developer, use a plain water stop bath. Use this formula for Ilfobrom Gallerie or other cold graded papers, NOT for MGWT.
 
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