Lodima Fine Art Paper--Official reports and Member Responses

[Ray Heath]

I'm quite happy using other materials though I'll surely give Lodima a try when it's released. In the meantime, I'd suggest not letting this fellow and others like him bait you... I'm not sure how sitting around a computer bitching about a paper you don't use makes someone any more creative than anyone else. Keep on keeping on and let the trolls continue guarding their little bridges. :rolleyes:

have you even read the crap posted here? and you infer i'm some kind of troll guarding a little kingdom

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

From beholding some of Michael and Paula's work I can tell that their approach to photography is highly creative. It's beautiful and impressive. If they are pursuing a paper to be made, in order to continue their print making - then they are doing what they feel is necessary. I think it's pretty creative.
Who is the last person you heard of doing something like that? It's an incredible undertaking for a cause supporting their beliefs in the ultimate of print making. They have won a lot of respect from people, fellow photographers, collectors, as well as curators/buyers at museums for their work. Surely there must be something to it?
If I can afford it (and the cameras I need for large negs), I will try some.
- Thomas

 

[Ray Heath]

From beholding some of Michael and Paula's work I can tell that their approach to photography is highly creative. It's beautiful and impressive. If they are pursuing a paper to be made, in order to continue their print making - then they are doing what they feel is necessary. I think it's pretty creative.
Who is the last person you heard of doing something like that? It's an incredible undertaking for a cause supporting their beliefs in the ultimate of print making. They have won a lot of respect from people, fellow photographers, collectors, as well as curators/buyers at museums for their work. Surely there must be something to it?
If I can afford it (and the cameras I need for large negs), I will try some.
- Thomas

why Thomas? that's how they (and many wannabes) do it, you need to find your own way, there is no magic formula

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

But using Azo or its replacement could be a route to your 'own way'. What's wrong with that?

I do agree every bit of 100% that there is no magic formula. That is the hardest bit of truth to come by as a photographer.

 

[Ray Heath]

But using Azo or its replacement could be a route to your 'own way'. What's wrong with that?

I do agree every bit of 100% that there is no magic formula. That is the hardest bit of truth to come by as a photographer.

yes it could be Thomas, so could any number of more readily available options

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

have you even read the crap posted here? and you infer i'm some kind of troll guarding a little kingdom

Here I am, taking your bait against my own advise.

I agree with your sentiments about magic formulas... I make contact prints and I'm beginning to like plain old Ilford MGIV fb with split grade printing more and more. Regardless, the fact is you're hanging out here making negative posts about a product you don't even plan to use. Why? Are you the next great Savior who is going to make real artists out of all these forum users and Azo lovers? Give me a break. If you're not interested in the product why continually harass those who are? Pretty freakin' lame, man.

 

[JLP]

Well said Shawn.


jan

 

[Ray Heath]

Here I am, taking your bait against my own advise.

I agree with your sentiments about magic formulas... I make contact prints and I'm beginning to like plain old Ilford MGIV fb with split grade printing more and more. Regardless, the fact is you're hanging out here making negative posts about a product you don't even plan to use. Why? Are you the next great Savior who is going to make real artists out of all these forum users and Azo lovers? Give me a break. If you're not interested in the product why continually harass those who are? Pretty freakin' lame, man.

Shawn, i thought this was an open forum, and as such i believed i had a right to express an opinion

what is "lame" is that too many on this site are afraid to express a contrary opinion, another perspective or a different approach

pretty freakin restrictive, man

 

[Ray Heath]

Well said Shawn.


jan

and there's another

 

[JLP]

Ray, You are in a nice mood today but on the other hand when are you not?


jan

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

Ray,
what you're doing is not expressing new perspectives or approaches. You're quite simply and obviously trying to bait people and attacking those who care about bringing a new traditional based product to market. What else would you call a post consisting of only the following?

"so, where is this great new paper many of you can't work without?" Ray Heath. Anyway, this is boring me.

Best wishes to M&P in their endeavor.

Ray, I wish you good light. I have no doubt you're able to make wonderful photographs using just about any material available to you and I hope to see them posted in the gallery. All the best. Shawn

 

[jgjbowen]

Lodima Fine Art (Azo replacement) update:

Paula and I are making good progress. Still more testing to be done, however. Because of our travel schedule, we may not be able to do the next round of testing until late January. It is possible that we could have paper by summer or, because of our travel schedule, by early fall.

Michael A. Smith

Well, January is almost over. Perhaps Michael will have an update for us soon.....

 

[c6h6o3]

I understand in a general sense that fear is a natural emotion for anyone that is interested in this project and does not yet have a realized conclusion.

I don't. M&P have yet to collect the first dime from any potential consumer of this product. My risk in this venture is a whopping ZERO. That's in any unit of currency you care to use.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

And to Kirk,whereabouts in Portland are you?

SE - a little east of Reed College - in the low rent district.
Shoot me a PM.

 

[michael9793]

Michael,

Does "this paper" refer to Azo? If not, have you had he opportunity to see/test Lodima?

I'm sorry I'm talking about Axo. I wish I could get my hands on the new paper.

 

[michael9793]

This assertion needs to be put into the proper perspective.

If you go back and review the project on the Azo web site you will see that Michael and Paula are relying upon the participation of silver chloride users to finance it and pull this project off. They are artists in the true sense of the word and their contribution to this endeavor is that they are the catalyist that are out there continuing to promote the concept of a silver chloride paper in the market place with their extensive experience with this project (nobody knows Azo like they do), the massive allocation of their personal time, travel expenses, phone calls and the passion that is common with them in their desire to continue to have a silver chloride paper to express themselves and for others to do so as well. I can further assure you that when they get their teeth into a project it is not set aside until it is completed because that is just how they do things. As a result, the Azo project is not now and since its initiation has never been on "hold".

We as consumers of silver chloride printing paper will be called upon to do our share at some point in the not to distant future so do not be surprised when we will need to reach for the checkbook or the credit card. That will truly be a defining monent in the new and improved analog business going forward.

Maintaining a positive attitude and continuing to promote analog are two very important contributions we can all make in the interim.

Onward!

thank you, you did a better job explaining than i did. But They do have a $1500.00 check from me for paper and after almost two years they have not cashed it. That is telling me they are putting out the money for this and when it is ready they will depend on us to resend them a check for the purchase. which we better do.

 

[Michael Kadillak]

thank you, you did a better job explaining than i did. But They do have a $1500.00 check from me for paper and after almost two years they have not cashed it. That is telling me they are putting out the money for this and when it is ready they will depend on us to resend them a check for the purchase. which we better do.

Thanks. In a desire to print with a quality silver chloride paper, like many others among us we have a very noble common objective. As much as we hope and pray that Michael and Paula find success, there are a number of technical and logistical issues for which the stars must line up correctly to allow this to take place. Anytime the journey begins from a blank piece of paper success is not going to occur over night. We should have an update from M&P in the next few months.

Cheers!

 

[jgjbowen]

I'm sorry I'm talking about Axo. I wish I could get my hands on the new paper.

Michael,

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Kirk Keyes]

Anytime the journey begins from a blank piece of paper success is not going to occur over night.

You should take PE's class on emulsion making. A silver chloride emulsion is pretty easy to make. I've seen a print on Azo and a print with PE's emulsion made by someone that knows Azo and I have to say that I liked the print on PE's emulsion better.

You guys might like to take matters into your own hands and learn how to make your own silver chloride papers.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kirk;

Thanks.

Anyone can make their own with a few simple ingredients and some equipment.

PE

 

[Curt]

Anyone can make their own with a few simple ingredients and some equipment

.


Seriously, do you have a dvd, booklet or instructions that an average person use to make an AZO like paper with a few simple ingredients? Ron, can you estimate the setup cost for making paper and how much equipment and space is required for the coating of a run of paper?

These are a lot of questions but basic to the would be emulsion maker. It might be the time to get into chemistry while waiting for a paper from Michael. No affront but making your own paper would educate the user and in the end make them a better consumer.

Curt

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Seriously Curt,
Have you completely overlooked the emulsion making forum here in APUG?????? If you will go back and read older posts on up to the present posts, the method for making and coating (by hand) small batches of an AZO like paper have been thoroughly covered, including photo illustrations.

 

[Curt]

No, sorry I haven't seen it, I guess I'm stuck in my own fog. I'll go there and look.
Thanks,
Curt

 

[Photo Engineer]

It takes 4 basic ingredients (including water) to make the 'raw' Azo emulsion. There are then 2 additional dopants to add depending on contrast grade (1,2,3,4) and 2 doctors to add before coating. The emulsion can be made in about 1 hour total time from start to finish.

This is why I am so confounded over all of what has been going on. I will say nothing further as I know that MAS is doing his very best to bring you a good product.

PE

 

[Curt]

Thank you Ron for sharing all of your hard work with us.
Curt