Lodima Fine Art Paper--Official reports and Member Responses

Michael A. Smith · Jul 12, 2008

One material, technique, and genre"??? Bach and Mozart????

Talk about "Misleading and illformed" - not to mention ill informed!

I am more than a little familiar with the music of these composers. Their music, from beginning to end, shows growth and increasing depth, but as regards material, technique, and genre: they used notes in major and minor scales, they wrote for instruments then in use (Mozart did write for the glass harmonica, which was not widely in use), and sometimes their music did provide technical challenges. Bach composed what is considered to be "Baroque Music" and Mozart composed what is considered to be music of the Classical Period. One can readily see, or hear, in Mozart's early music influences of Bach and Bach's sons, and that his late music anticipates Beethoven (Mozart came a long way!) but generally speaking, the materials, techniques, and genres (although I am not exactly sure how "genre" applies here), essentially remained the same throughout his career. What changed was the emotional depth of his, and Bach's, music--it just grew and grew and deepened and deepened.

Chazzy · Jul 12, 2008

Michael A. Smith said:
I hope those of you who are reading this haven't found it too long-winded and tedious and that there are a few good thoughts in there along with my comments defending myself and Paula from Heath's ludicrous attack. If the attack is so ludicrous, why bother answering it, you may ask? And that is a good question. All I can say is that I just felt like doing so.

I'm glad that you did, but usually the best response to a troll is to ignore him. Such a person is really only interested in stirring up trouble. Ignore him, and the gratification goes away. Deleting his blunt and tiresome potshots would be even better.

Tim Boehm · Jul 12, 2008

I know that M/P are making a diligent effort to get the paper made. All of you complainers do not have a RIGHT to have anything made for you. Sorry if your expectations haven't been met, but I suspect that not one of YOU has tried to have a paper made for US. This is M/P’s business venture and they are assuming all the risks. If they want to maintain PROPRIETARY knowledge, processes and contracts, they DO have that RIGHT, and you have no legal or even moral right to know it.

By the way, M/P also have the right to NOT have it made if they so choose, or the right to only have it made for themselves, or the right to have it made only for investors etc. They also have the right to make money. The paper will cost more than they initially stated - energy costs and silver prices have significantly increased.

If the paper is made and you don’t want it, then don’t buy it. Frankly, I’m surprised anyone is even attempting to have it made; be thankful.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 12, 2008

Kirk Keyes said:
You mentioned the Chinese Amidol. I've got a pound of it, and I have not used it. Wasn't its quality inferior to what every one was expecting?

Yes, but apparently it's not too different from what Brett Weston used. Merg Ross posted over on the LF forum I think that it was just normal to have to strain out the large particles and possibly adjust the formula a bit for a new batch of amidol. I suspect that is why printers who use amidol seem to have large stocks of it that they use for years. I'm socked in with three kilos myself, and I use it with other papers as well, so if Lodima doesn't come to market, I'll still use it, and I may just start coating my own when I've got a little more workspace.

Curt · Jul 12, 2008

Paula and I have a lot of our own time and a lot of our own money (all of it borrowed and needed to be repaid) and we are busting our asses to get this new paper made. Unfortunately, we do not have tens of millions of dollars to buy or build a coating facility ourselves, or we would have done it that way. Working with others who say, "Paper for testing will be here in x months," and then it doesn't arrive for 5x months later is frustrating, and is entirely beyond our control.

There is something wrong with this line of thought, who put you under the gun to produce that paper? The implication is that you are the only one who is working and no one else cares. It sounds like the poor little me syndrome. If you are that frustrated and it's entirely out of control then quit. Don't blame prospective customers for inquiring about the progress.

doughowk · Jul 12, 2008

Did Jay & Jorge transmogrify into some current APUG members? Seriously, why the high vituperative level? If Michael & Paula succeed, we as a community of film/paper users all benefit whether we use the product or not. If they fail, they are the only ones who really suffer. I wish them success!!

Travis Nunn · Jul 12, 2008

I think I now understand why Michael and Paula don't frequent here, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. I never used Azo and honestly I don't intend to try the Lodima paper, but you gotta give them some props for at least trying to get their product out.

Chazzy · Jul 12, 2008

Just my opinion, but I think that it would be better if this thread were closed. When Michael and Paula have something to announce, they can start a new thread and announce it. Badgering them about the paper before they are ready to announce something serves no constructive purpose.

Michael A. Smith · Jul 12, 2008

Thanks, Chazzy, for suggesting he thread be closed. I agree.

I will make an announcement as soon as there is something to announce.

Michael A. Smith

Ray Heath · Jul 12, 2008

Chazzy said:
Just my opinion, but I think that it would be better if this thread were closed. When Michael and Paula have something to announce, they can start a new thread and announce it. Badgering them about the paper before they are ready to announce something serves no constructive purpose.

yeh, that's probably best Chazzy, like calling someone a "troll" that's also a great way to stiffle debate

anyway, Michael can come back at any time and get in another free ad for his commercial ventures

JBrunner · Jul 12, 2008

Stifle debate? MAS will get the paper made or he won't. People will use it or not. There will be enough market to sustain production, or there won't.

Michael and Paula have examined the options and determined that undertaking the risk is something they are willing to do. If they succeed, bring a new product to market, and profit by that, all the better.

Nay sayers seldom do a damn thing.

You want to talk balls? It takes balls to take risk. It takes nothing but a mouth or keyboard to poo poo.

Too many here potshot at the risk takers, the ones who actually attempt to do something, be it big or small.

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

THEODORE ROOSEVELT
(Paris Sorbonne,1910)

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 13, 2008

Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee are making the world of photography a richer place to be. They are risking a lot with this endeavor. Wish them well. Be happy that they're trying. Please don't judge their approach until you view their prints in the flesh. Whatever it is that they do - it's working, because the prints are phenomenal. You literally cannot believe how good they are, both artistically as well as from a 'photographically technical' standpoint.
It's no joke, and no hype. It's just really damned fine photographs.
I'll leave it at that and move on.

Tom Hoskinson · Jul 13, 2008

Well said, Thomas!

papagene · Jul 13, 2008

And a "Well Said" to both Thomas ans Jason. I think it would be a benefit to all if we gave this subject a rest until more info is available from Michael. Until then... put your camera where your mouth (or keyboard) is, and go out and take some photos.

gene

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 3, 2008

Lodima Fine Art update--Orders Accepted for Test Run

Update on the new Lodima Fine Art silver chloride contact paper--

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/newpaper.html

They are going to produce a test run of 290 boxes of 8x10" double-weight G2 and are taking orders.

I've ordered mine.

jd callow · Sep 3, 2008

My Hat is off to MAS & Co.. We needed to have a small business success.

Michael Kadillak · Sep 3, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
Update on the new Lodima Fine Art silver chloride contact paper--

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/newpaper.html

They are going to produce a test run of 290 boxes of 8x10" double-weight G2 and are taking orders.

I've ordered mine.

Bravo Michael and Paula. I just read the print densities for them from the test prints and the paper is simply marvelous with a capital "M".

Considering how much of a long shot this was and how many people wrote them off I am absolutely elated at the prospects of gaining access to this double weight paper. We all need to get on board and pass the word to everyone across the globe that could use this paper.

Cheers!

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Sep 3, 2008

Wow, that is better than Duke Nukem Forever being released!

Photo Engineer · Sep 3, 2008

Congratulations. I know how hard it was!

PE

Michael A. Smith · Sep 3, 2008

Lodima Fine Art Silver Chloride Paper is Here

Lodima Fine Art Silver Chloride Paper is Here

For full details, see this link

http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/newpaper.html

Thank you for your interest in this paper.

We are about to become APUG Sponsors.

Michael A. Smith and Paula Chamlee

JBrunner · Sep 3, 2008

Congratulations to Micheal and Paula! Wonderful. Simply wonderful.

Andrew Moxom · Sep 3, 2008

Superb news for all the azo contact printers out there. Thanks for the update, it's always good to hear of new products coming back to the analog fold.

Phil · Sep 3, 2008

Great news!

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Sep 3, 2008

Time to merge the threads...

John McCallum · Sep 3, 2008

Congratulations. Good news indeed.

Lodima Fine Art Paper--Official reports and Member Responses

Michael A. Smith

Chazzy

Tim Boehm

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Curt

doughowk

Travis Nunn

Chazzy

Michael A. Smith

Ray Heath

JBrunner

Moderator

Thomas Bertilsson

Tom Hoskinson

papagene

Membership Council

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

jd callow

Moderator

Michael Kadillak

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council

Photo Engineer

Michael A. Smith

JBrunner

Moderator

Andrew Moxom

Phil

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council

John McCallum

Lodima Fine Art Paper--Official reports and Member Responses

Moderator

Moderator

Membership Council

Moderator

Moderator

Membership Council

Moderator

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency