Lithprints and bleaching/re-develolping

[masimix]

I have been lithprinting for a few years, and thanks to Tim Rudmans great book on the topic and hundreds of sheets of paper theres at least a few good ones..

Anyway, I recently got my hands on a set of Tetenal Sulphide toner, and have tried bleaching and sulphide toning on a few prints, and one lithprint (it lost quite a bit of higlight). I have read a little bit about it here on apug, and theres a lot in Rudmans Toning book, but is there anyone here who has experiences with bleaching and re-developing lith prints? I always make 6-10 prints in a session, and there's always a few that are either too bright (snatched early) or too dark (snatched late). Can they be altered to be brighter/darker with re-developing? With any developer/dilution or toner?

Can the blacks become brighter and the highlights darker with re-developing, or do I have to throw all the 'misprints' away..?

Hopefully, Im making myself clear here, and thanks for any reply to this, as I have a plan to do some experimenting soon.

Marius

 

[patricia de roeck]

Marius, I presume that you're overexposing the prints by anything from half to a full stop in the initial stage of this process. I've been using a bleach made up of 10grams Pot. Ferri plus 5 grams of Pot. Bromide to 1 ltre of water...this, along with using quite contrasty negs gives strong blacks, while the mid-tones to highlights areas have a sepia tone to them...not sure where you're using the Sulphide Toner in your work-flow though. I too make at least six prints to work with and find that the first and last couple are throw-aways with this process so usually end up with about 3 good prints if I'm lucky. I'm also presuming you're using some Old Brown in the Lith Developer.
Hope this helps a bit.
Trisha

 

[An Le-qun]

I have tried bleaching overexposed "straight" prints (on Ilford MG Warmtone FB), at times with Potassium Ferricyanide/Potassium Bromide bleach, and at others with copper sulfate/sulfuric acid/salt bleach. I get the best results from prints that I pull from the bleach after the blacks are gone (i.e. they start to look weak and foggy).

Then I redevelop in lith chemicals, and the results are sometimes no better than they were before bleaching, but sometimes they are spectacular. I am currently using the frighteningly inexpensive lith chemicals from Ultrafine. I have used dilutions from 1:10 (which, with UF, almost doesn't qualify as a dilution) all the way to 1:70.

The most exciting thing that I've come across was a properly exposed print that I bleached till the whole thing was practically gone (in which formula, I don't know!), then redeveloped in weak lith--for a loooong time. I got some crazy effects that, so far, I have not been able to reproduce.

I have had only moderate success bleaching lith prints and redeveloping in lith. Not that it doesn't work, I just haven't gotten any results that I care about yet.

 

[masimix]

I'm overexposing by two-three stops, at least, and while I have used Fotospeed Lith I now use the Moersch version, which seems great. I use mostly dilutions around 1+1+30+5 (A+B+water+old brown). I have tried 1+1+20+0 to 1+1+70+5. The color is the great difference, and the time it takes to develop, off course. Mostly I selenium tone the prints, and some get gold-toned after that. A few just get goldtoned. I have never used bleach and sepiatoning before now, and the one lith-print I tried it on got a color that I didn't really like. I got the idea to re-develop instead, and maybe I'll just try it in a normal developer and a lith-developer and see what happens?

 

[masimix]

Today I've been bleaching and redeveloping lithprints, and the short conclusion is that it doesn't alter the print much unless with color. All prints loose their warm tint, and go towards greenish. In lith-developer, the prints solarize during development, but goes back to black after a while. I'm probably not the first one to try this and not the last..

 

[patricia de roeck]

Marius, I really think you're exposing for too long..my best results have been 3/4 to 1 stop over..the bleach times are usually from 1min to 2 min to snatch-point and the lith bath from 1 min 15 secs to 2 min 15 secs... and this is usually about 1/4 way into the work flow..the last few good prints being nice and gritty, with strong blacks and sepia-toned highlights...but this may not be what you're looking for..I've even tried using a 'hot' lith with temps to 35c without much success. After experimenting with this process for 3 years I've finally decided to do straight lith printing with toning afterwards if needed..just got sick of the time it takes doing the bleach/lith process, plus the throw-away percentage..I was lucky enough to attend a workshop with Tim Rudman recently and learnt so much about straight lith printing and toning that it seems a much simpler route to take...good luck anyway!
Trisha

 

[masimix]

It is definitely a simpler route, and what I do for lithprinting always, I just wanted to see if the too-dark or too-bright prints could be altered to come out ok, but it's no point really..

In Tim Rudmans book there is a chapter about redeveloping in lith, but the papers mentioned are all gone i think. Anyway, it's useful if you want lithprints with a greenish cast (they go back to brown with Selenium, I tried toning them today)

What paper do you use by the way? I use Fomatone 131 and have also used 532 (about half a stop faster), I also had a batch with EMAKS graded paper, wich is now called ADOX Nuance I believe. They are all great, especiallythe Foma since it develops in 3-4 minutes. You can make ten prints in one evening!

 

[sly]

I had the best results with Ilford's MGWT, in warm developer. It didn't look very exciting lithed, but when I bleached and redeveloped it turned out very pleasing (and NOT green, none of them were).

See my experiments here (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[patricia de roeck]

My best results have all been on Foma 131 too, I've tried quite a few others without much result, as you say, many of the papers mentioned in Tim Rudman's books are no longer made - I'm just wondering if the new Ilford Art 300 paper will lith well...Tim has a website where he keeps people informed of any new developments in chemicals and paper..I'm sure eventually he'll have some information on this paper from his own trials with it..goodness knows how long it will take the new paper to be available in Australia..we have very limited selection here..one paper that seems to lith beautifully if you're looking for texture and grain is the Slavich paper..which of course we can't get here. Don't know why you've been getting a greenish tint to the paper after the bleach/redevel. process..I've never had that happen, no matter what paper I've used.. but I've never selenium toned afterwards either.
Trisha

 

[masimix]

I've never tried MGWT, but I'll get some the next time I buy Ilford paper, it looks interesting. Fomatone 131 is such a great paper for normal developer also. The new Ilford is supposed to lith according to Rudmans newsletter, it must also be tried (actually it's here http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=1175)

Slavich I have never heard of. As long as they make Fomatone I'm happy. I'll use it for lith forever I hope..