Lith printing - what papers?

[haddock]

This is a question for the lith experts under you. I'm fairly new to lith printing and I've spend a significant number of nights in my darkroom to get some reasonable lith prints. However, I'm not happy with the results I have produced so far. I'm using:

- Meopta Opemus 6a with colour head (I'm happy with this enlarger)
- Fotospeed LD20 Lith Developer
Papers:
- Fotospeed Lith Paper
- Kentmere Kentona (Cd free emulsion!)
- Kentmere Document Art
- Ilford Multigrade FB Warmtone
- Agfa Multicontrast Classic MCC 111 FB

The developer concentration is 1A + 1B + 1(sodium) + 1(old brown) + 17water. Fresh stopper and fresh fixer all 20C degree.

So far I've only tested the Fotospeed and the Kentona paper. The Fotospeed paper seems to be quite difficult to manage. I'll need to do some more testing with this paper.

More important - and that's my question - is the behaviour of Kentmere Kentona. Tim Rudman seems to use this paper quite often with excellent results (as shown in his book). However, he also mentions the possible change in the emulsion for the Kentona paper - which seems to be the case for the new paper (now Cd free). I wonder if this is the reason why my prints have hardly any colour (only a slide yellowish cast) and the lith effect is hardly visible. The Fotospeed lith paper, however, produces extremely lithy results (which I haven't managed to control yet).

What are your lith experiences with the new Kentmere papers?
What can I do to produce a more pronounced lith effect?
How can I get the pink/magenta results with the new Kentona?
Which of the other papers I've listed above are good for lith printing?
What other papers do you recommend (must be available in the UK)?

I've read Tim's book forwards and backwards a few times. I'm certain I know the principles of lith printing (how to control contrast, hightlight details and so on). But some new input would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks for your help
Stephan (haddock)

 

[Mateo]

I used the Luminos (Kentona) for a few years and it was very easy to get the orange and red colors but then they changed the emulsion and it isn't worth using at all. I tried every trick possible with no luck.

Oriental Seagull is what I use mostly now and it is capable of producing multi-color effects but the colors are completely different from those of Luminos. I also use Forte Fortezo which will give you a strange pink/green split. Cachet papers give mild warm colors and are nice for some subjects but try to find the RF instead of the WA (the WA was prone to chemical fog for me). Ilford MG Warmtone wasn't very lithy in appearance so I don't use it.

Some of the best papers for lith printing are now gone. Sterling lith was beautiful but a bit tricky. Agfa Brovira was similar without the chemical fog problems and Ilford Ilfobrome had nice subtle yellows. I finally ran out of the Sterling but still have a supply of the others. They can still be found but as they get older they are more likely to have problems.

I think any problem you may be having stems from the Kentona paper. I've never tried the Fotospeed chemistry but your dilution looks like it should be fine.

 

[roy]

I find that the results I like best have been with Forte Polywarmtone fibre but developed in Champion. I have to say though, that Champion is the only developer I have used. I believe that this is now only available in larger containers but Tim did say (on another forum !) that Fotospeed works very well. The paper is available from Silverprint.

 

[hawkwind]

Lith Papers

I've found that Fomatone, Fomabrom and Forte Polywarmtone Plus work really well. The Fomabrom does not produce much of a color shift, but blacks creep across the paper nicely. I use Maco Superlith developer.

--Gary

 

[Bob Carnie]

I am wondering if your exposures are long enough?
Do you use a second enlarger or light source for controlling contrast?
The 17 part water seems to be too diluted, I use a 1part A ,1part B, 8 parts water and 2parts old dev.

The old kentona was too peachy pink for my liking and I stopped using it.
I never had any luck with Agfa classic, but I just finished some prints for the Silver Competition using Agfa Portriga and the effect was very good.

Ilford Warmtone and Fotospeed Lith and Jand &C maco 2 are my favorite papers for lith. The control and effects are numerous.

I do like Oriental G4 but I must say the three above I prefer.

If you have any Kodak Elite kicking around , it works very well.

I use a Omega enlargers with 250w bulbs for extra power with a stronger dilution than most do. my emergence time for blacks is under 4 min and this seems to work well for me.

 

[Fotohuis]

All Fomatone papers are great for lith prints: Classic (baryt) and the PE/RC. Also the brand new Fomabrom Variant baryt paper is suitable for lith prints.

I am using Moersch chemistry.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Travis Nunn]

I've had great success with Kentmere Art Classic, but since Kentmere has announced that paper will no longer be made, I have to find a new one after I finish off my stock.

...Ilford Warmtone and Fotospeed Lith and Jand &C maco 2 are my favorite papers for lith...

The only experience I've had with J and C is with their Bromoprint papers (which I like), which of their papers do you use for lith printing?

 

[Ross Chambers]

Paterson Acugrade

I'm not a dedicated lith printer, but I have dabbled with Paterson Acugrade Warm Tone. It's available in 10x8 - 25 sheets and 12x16 - 10 sheets, so not too expensive for a trial.

It turns to an OK brown (not really sepia, less red shading) in selenium toner, or an equally OK blueish in gold toner.

As you are based in Pommyland I'd imagine that it's easily available to you. I'm not sure where it's made: Paterson certainly don't emblazon it with any "Made in UK" proclamations, and I've suspected for some time that it's one of the more obscure East European manufacturers (?)

Regards - Ross

 

[naaldvoerder]

Fomatone in Lith will give very pronounced pink colors. It is the closest to the old Kentona, I have tried.

 

[doughowk]

I've only tried a few papers in Lith developer (Fotospeed). J&Cs Expo Grade (Adox Classic Arts) yielded a nice chocolate color, though seems prone to pepper fogging (could it be the papers incorporated developer). Forte Fortezo predominately yellow but with some peach pink. Forte Polywarmtone a nice peach pink. Lith printing has enabled me to print some very high contrast negatives; and with added bonus of interesting colors as developer nears exhaustion.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Travis

The Jan&C paper I am using is Adox grade 2, It mimics the macoe 2 that I was using . In fact its so close it may be the same paper.

It produces a nice brown as doughowk points out.

 

[Travis Nunn]

Thanks for the info, Bob. I may give it a try once I start to use up my stock of Art Classic.