Lith Paper

[robertmgray]

Hey, I'm getting started with Lith development and I was wondering if any of the new Oriental Seagull papers would lith. Is the new Grade 2 lithable?

 

[Slixtiesix]

I don´t know about the Oriental papers but Fomatone classig MG is supposed to be THE lith paper from what I´ve read.

 

[Dan Henderson]

Tim Rudman's list of papers that are "lithable" does not include Oriental papers. I echo Slixtiesix's recommendation. If you are just starting with lith, don't complicate things by using a paper that may not respond to lith treatment. Begin with a reliable paper like Fomatone Classic. This will help you gain a good foundation of the process from which you can experiment with other papers.

 

[Mark Fisher]

I'll third this....fomatone is by far the easiest to lith. If the Oriental paper is the warmtone version, there is a good chance it will work. I have some old Oriental (maybe 4 or 5 years old) and the warmtone version liths pretty well. The neutral version doesn't work at all. I thought I heard that they changed the warmtone version and it is suspiciously like Fomatone.

 

[Travis Nunn]

As with all things lith, and as has been reiterated here on APUG many times, you really need to try for yourself. Buy a small pack of the paper and try it. It may lith, but you may not like the way it liths.

 

[robertmgray]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the input. You guys are right as always, I shouldn't be getting picky with papers before I actually learn the lith process I suppose. I'll start with the fomatone classic 132 like I initially set out for. Just to get a final suggestion from those of you that have experimented with different papers and developers, I'm trying to get more of a black and white image rather than a lot of color; besides the characteristics of the paper is this pretty simple to do by decreasing the dilution of the developer?

 

[Dan Henderson]

Fomatone is going to give you the most color of any paper that I know of. Depending on developer dilution it starts off less colorful and gains color as the developer gets more bromide released from earlier development. But I have never had any paper/developer combination produce what I would call "more of a black and white image," save one: Slavich Unibrom paper. Gritty, blacks, pretty neutral highlights and midtones.

 

[Mark Fisher]

There are two ways to go: Fomatone toned with selenium to completion or Slavich Unibrom. Slavich is tougher to work with the the quality control isn't alway there. Here is an example of fomatone with heavy selenium and here is an example of Slavich Unibrom. Just for fun, here is Fomatone with gold toning. Fomatone with fresh developer (little or no old brown) is warm but not all that colorful. Fomatone is pretty amazing in that it can be toned to just about any look except really grainy and gritty.....that is what Slavich is for

 

[mike c]

Add Emaks graded paper to that to,it is pretty gritty .

 

[robertmgray]

Wow, yeah Slavich is pretty gritty, I could find myself using that for certain negatives. Mark, your liths look great by the way. Emaks looking damn gritty too, thanks Mike.

I think I'll start with the fomatone and maybe try some selenium toning later.

 

[2F/2F]

I find that Oriental doesn't work too well. I did not have results I was thrilled with using Emaks either, though it does work. Portriga Rapid is my favorite that I have found so far. You have to track it down, though, as it has not been made for a while. Personally, I find it hard to spend money on brand new paper for lith printing, as the old stuff is so darned cheap (or free), and I generally like the way it looks better anyhow.

 

[mike c]

2F/2F, I've used Oriental that has to be 20 30 years old and it worked fine for old paper,I'll bring a photo to Tonopah for you to check it out.

Mike

 

[robertmgray]

Do you guys find most of your discontinued paper on Ebay?

 

[2F/2F]

Hi, Mike. The Oriental I tried is the new VC stuff. I'd love to see yer pic with the old stuff. I think I have a few pieces in the fridge myself.

I have got all my old paper around town for free or close to it, though if I was tracking down something specific I'd try E-Bay.

 

[mike c]

Haven't tried the new VC stuff, I have enough of the older paper around for Lith now I'm glad I did not throw it away. Like to use the new paper for traditional printing.

 

[sly]

I've been using Maco Multibrom when I want less colour. I bought a couple of boxes a few years ago. Knowing the Maco/Rollei folks, it probably has a different name now, possibly a different formulation, and no straight answers to be found.
When I first started lithing I was getting some nice pewter coloured stuff on Agfa MCP RC.

 

[robertmgray]

Here's one example of an old oriental seagull print: http://www.flickr.com/photos/po-pad/332873305/


Any idea on whether the Oriental Seagull New G3 works?

 

[Bob Carnie]

Thats the classic look that I so miss, All or most of Anton Corbjin's work printed by the great printer Mike Spry was on this paper.
I stopped using Oriental after they changed the emulsion, that look is very hard to find with the new papers.
I tried Slavich 4 and got some great results btw .

Here's one example of an old oriental seagull print: http://www.flickr.com/photos/po-pad/332873305/


Any idea on whether the Oriental Seagull New G3 works?

 

[MVNelson]

beautiful lith print ... I agree that for entry in to lith and the begin learning the vast permeations of the process Foma papers are a great starting place. If you happen across some Fortezo paper it too is wonderful for lith. I am quite hopeful based on Wolfgang Moersch's review of the new paper from Harman/Ilford that we may son have a new "winner" on the way ....

 

[Bob Carnie]

The new paper is an Ilford Warmtone Emulsion on textured stock provided by Hannamuhle, it does lith wonderful, as well solarizes well.
some people have trouble with Ilford Warmtone, secret is the snatch point , pull early.

beautiful lith print ... I agree that for entry in to lith and the begin learning the vast permeations of the process Foma papers are a great starting place. If you happen across some Fortezo paper it too is wonderful for lith. I am quite hopeful based on Wolfgang Moersch's review of the new paper from Harman/Ilford that we may son have a new "winner" on the way ....

 

[dfoo]

I bought some LD20 recently, so I'm excited to try my hand at Lith printing! Has anyone tried Kentmere FB VC? Any recommendations? I also have loads of old Portriga, Oriental, Ilford FB... all like the earlier posted mentioned acquired from printers closing their darkrooms.

I have a whole bunch of Portriga early 8x10 grade 1, 2 and 3 paper that I'd be willing to sell if the price is right.

 

[Mark Fisher]

Kentmere FB VC (neutral) doesn't lith, but the warmtone version does. As a rule of thumb, is it is a warmtone paper, it will lith. If it is a neutral tone, it may or may not. Ilford VC neutral doesn't lith, but Slavich and Fomabrom VC do. I have some ancient Kodak Polycontrast that also seems to lith. Basically, I'd recommend learning on something you know works then branch out. Otherwise you won't know if it is your technique or the paper if you have problems.

 

[dfoo]

I was reading http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Lith2/lith2.html. Here Tim says Kentmere fineprint VC liths... is this an older formulation of the current Kentmere paper?

 

[Mark Fisher]

I was reading http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Lith2/lith2.html. Here Tim says Kentmere fineprint VC liths... is this an older formulation of the current Kentmere paper?

I believe the Fineprint is the warm version.

 

[2F/2F]

I bought some LD20 recently, so I'm excited to try my hand at Lith printing! Has anyone tried Kentmere FB VC? Any recommendations? I also have loads of old Portriga, Oriental, Ilford FB... all like the earlier posted mentioned acquired from printers closing their darkrooms.

I have a whole bunch of Portriga early 8x10 grade 1, 2 and 3 paper that I'd be willing to sell if the price is right.

If you want to try lith printing, I'd really suggest trying the Portriga that you have. You may not want to sell it after all.