Lith paper: Oriental VC FB or ?

[baachitraka]

@Bob Carnie May I know what really happens in Fixer? Do highlights are bleached and leaving dark parts alone?

 

[Nodda Duma]

I'm considering trying lith and this is useful info.

 

[M Carter]

I've been thinking that larger volumes of working solution might work better given the larger amounts of concentrate, kind of like the 6ml limit on HC-110.

There's also the issue of consistency - since each print adds silver and (bromides?) to the developer, if you want some consistency, go big. If you're doing 8x10's use a deep 11x14 tray and fill it (reasonably) up!

 

[M Carter]

@Bob Carnie - I've had very poor results with MGWT and Arista liquid. Maybe one good print out of 6. Seems to be a very short sweet spot where the developer is just-right. Most prints have that crazy mottled star-pattern mess. (Though I did find the fixer-explosion phenomenon to be present with Arista).

I've been assuming that LD-20 simply has a different formulation that works with MGWT. Planning on trying it next.

As for papers to try - recently there seemed to be a lot of Agfa MC 111 and 118 on eBay, even some 16x20. I find these very good and "legit" lith papers. Paper that exhibits 2 or 3 stops fog in standard dev still gives me snappy whites and clean borders with lith. The Agfa isn't amazing color-wise, sort of a muted yellow-tan, but it does take toners quite well. Brovira turns up a lot, it's more of deep blacks and cooler tones, but it has buttloads of silver and tones great too. As I recall, longer dev times. Any of the Maco (or other re-brands) "expo RF" (all the packages look the same, just different logos printed) are holy-grail warmtone papers (I've only EVER seen them 8x10 though), and like Ektalure and other classic warm papers, they just explode with Moersch Omega.

Ektalure simply rocks, but I find the drydown to go a full stop darker so it's difficult to print - when you see the slightest tones in the highs, it's done. And Ektalure (for me) is a one-time print - bleaching kills the unique color, even selenium turns those oranges more brown and murky. And a bleach/redev seems to really open up the grain of the paper and kill any smoothness.

The best, #1, most kickass thing I've found is going 2-tray for lith. Warm tray of dev, 2nd tray of warm water with a splash of old brown or very tiny bit of fresh dev. Once the print seems like it's getting close, go to the warm water and the critical snatch point slows down. You can go back to the straight dev if needed, since the paper now has some dilute dev in the emulsion, it takes a minute to speed back up. This has been a huge help for me to get "closer to perfect", and you can see the print much better in the dilute dev - the highlights are much easier to judge, and I feel like you get more delicate highs with more tonality this way.

16x20 Ektalure, 2-tray dev, no selenium or bleach or post-toning:

 

[Bob Carnie]

@Bob Carnie May I know what really happens in Fixer? Do highlights are bleached and leaving dark parts alone?

PE or Ron Morey explained to me what possibly may be happening and rather than butcher his words I would hope he chimes in. I somehow think that the fixer removes a veil that is covering the whole image and it is almost an immediate reaction... Ilford IMO has changed the warmtone emulsion from its initial batch, I believe in an attempt to have the sensitivity of the paper match laser exposure. I also believe that once they did this the effect of exploding in the fixer started happening with this paticular paper. I am really surprised that this is not a common visual for most printers. I am a big fan of looking at the print in the developer
to see contrast , density and future dodges and burns , so I was kind of miffed when this explosion started happening post development in my darkroom.

 

[Bob Carnie]

@Bob Carnie - I've had very poor results with MGWT and Arista liquid. Maybe one good print out of 6. Seems to be a very short sweet spot where the developer is just-right. Most prints have that crazy mottled star-pattern mess. (Though I did find the fixer-explosion phenomenon to be present with Arista).

I've been assuming that LD-20 simply has a different formulation that works with MGWT. Planning on trying it next.

I have tried Arista developer and Kodak developer and multitude of wacky home made mixes, none of them work anywhere close to LD-20 , Moresch lith, or Nova Lith the king of lith developers.
I mix 1:8 use a three min dev and pound the crap out of the negative with exposure, I use a 250 w bulb in my enlarger with fast lenses.

 

[M Carter]

@Bob Carnie May I know what really happens in Fixer? Do highlights are bleached and leaving dark parts alone?

It's very difficult to describe and you really have to experience it. Prints will look dull and gray, with the first blacks coming in. Hit the fix and everything seems to pop - or explode as Bob says. (With Arista it's not as pronounced as it seems to be with LD-20, but a very strange thing to see).

 

[scheimfluger_77]

Well the proper spelling sure helps doesn't it, thanks.

 

[trotkiller]

How do you verify what batch a box is? When I called Freestyle, they said they don't have that information. I know it's been a while since Fomatone is supposedly lith-able again, but I don't want to drop $170 just to find out!

They are not telling you the complete truth. The emulsion number is printed on the box.

Tim Rudman provided the following information about good batches in his 2014 end of year newsletter:

Fomatone MG Classic 131 – batch No. 0685
Fomatone MG Classic 132 and 532-11 'Nature' - batch No. 0680
Fomatone MG Classic 133 - New emulsion for 133 will be on 0685 and 0690