Lith developer capacity / small print runs

[MarkL]

I've been mixing up LD20 developer for small print runs and am only getting 3 or 4 prints before the image gets blotchy and contrasty at a given exposure. Here are the details:

50ml part A + 50ml Part B + 1500ml water + 50ml Old Brown (1+1+30+1)
Developer temp: about 100F
EMaks grade 3

The image is ready in only a couple of minutes and all's good except I was hoping for a little more developer capacity. Is this about a normal result or is the higher temp killing the developer more quickly? What's a good quantity to mix if I want to have more consistency over a, say, 10 print run? LD20 and paper are expensive!

Mark

 

[paul_c5x4]

Note: Not used LD20 for a while, but...

I mix my own developers, usually a D-85 or Ansco 70 and use at around 35C (95F)- Minimum working solution is 2.5l, sometimes as much as 5l at a dilution of 100ml+100ml+(2.3l to 5l). Print capacity is around four sheets of 10x8 before having to add more developer, usually around 50ml of A and B. From memory, the LD20 had marginally more capacity, but not by much.

The developer is highly dilute which leads to exhaustion quicker than usual, so it may pay to replenish after two or three sheets - 10ml each of A and B would be a starting point. You'll find it advantageous to pour the developer in to a jug for mixing and then transferring back to the tray. Attempting to mix replenishment quantities in a tray leads to uneven mixing.

 

[Mark Fisher]

Usually when a developer exhausts, it just takes longer and longer to get an image until it is forever. I've never had it starting to get blotchy or considerably more contrasty....and I've never used LD20. With Rollei developer, I can usually get about 15 or so 8x10 prints out of a liter and a half of developer....and I dilute more. I am guessing the problem is with the developer....perhaps it is old or was mistreated at some point?

 

[MarkL]

Wow, one of you is getting 15 8x10's out of 1.5 liters, and the other only 4 8x10's out of 2.5 to 5 liters!

The developer I used is the first out of a newly opened package. Maybe scans of the prints would help, but then again this is Emaks paper and is known to be gritty and possibly harder to control? The 2nd and 3rd prints had a nice effect but in the 4th the upper midtones and highlights lagged way behind in development as the shadows got too dark and I had to snatch. Exposure was controlled with a cold light stabilizer so exposure was identical. I suppose I could give increasing exposure to even out the contrast as the developer gets used but that's another variable. I'm thinking a good approach for very consistent results is using developer one shot.

 

[Bob Carnie]

When using this developer I mix 1000ml a 1000ml b 1000ml old brown and then around 8 litres of dev

this will last a full printing session... minimum 50 8x10 emergence time is 3-4 min with most papers

 

[MarkL]

Wow Bob. That's a hefty and expensive batch of developer (nearly $100) but I realize you're a professional printer!

For small volume processing I'm thinking why not go one-shot? Season with old brown and every print should be the same, as long as I can come up with a quantity that minimizes waste of developer but makes a large enough solution to provide correct agitation. I'll have to experiment but maybe as little as 10ml A + 10ml B might be enough fresh developer to do an 8x10. And the results would be consistent (I know, boring.....) once I'm in the ballpark of a good print and want a couple close dups.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Mark,

It depends on how much concentrate you put in the volume. Dilution makes a big difference on how long your chemistry lasts.

Like Bob I try to use lots of chemistry; not as much as him, but a gallon of it insures that if there are any changes to the chemistry along the way, it is slow. It also enables me to make larger prints without the chemistry going off like mad with a single sheet.

I use 300ml Part A, and 300ml Part B. 400ml 'old brown', and top up with water to one gallon. Then I season the batch with one or two sheets of 8x10 paper with the lights on, until they go completely black. This is old crappy paper that I keep just for that purpose. I try to keep the chemistry at about 80 degrees F.

After that I can print a long time.

Good luck!

- Thomas

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

It just occurred to me you were asking about short print runs... The most interesting effects happen after the developer is seasoned, so you may have to work out exactly how much old brown you want to add to your developer, or maybe you should try replenishing a certain amount of Part A and Part B after each print? That way it would stay seasoned.

Say you mix one liter of developer. You probably will want to use about 40-70ml of A and B each, and then old brown and water as desired. If you get, say six or eight prints out of that, you could toy with something like 10ml of A and B each for every print, and see if you can keep it stable like that. Adjust as necessary.

In my head that would be the best way forward.

 

[MarkL]

Yeah Thomas, after a day of work and a big dinner I'm usually aiming for a reasonable quantity to try with a new image that may or may not be worth mixing a large batch for.

So do you think that, at 1+1+30+1, 50ml of both A and B is only good for about 4 8x10's? I'm kind of wondering about capacity, which is pretty predictable with something like Dektol where capacity is about 1/2 ounce per 8x10 (if memory serves). I wonder if it would have any more capacity at, say, 1+1+10+1 since people say dilution plays a big part in exhaustion. Also it's going to be impacted more by low key prints than high key ones. If it weren't so expensive (~ $45 for a 500ml kit) I'd just mix up larger batches and be done with it. Or I could mix my own which is probably very cost effective.

I really appreciate everyone chiming in. Lith is a trip.

 

[An Le-qun]

When you're thinking of ordering developer again, consider Ultrafine's graphic arts developer. The formula seems quite similar to LD20, and it's way less expensive. I would say it lasts forever (it comes in a pair of 1-gallon bottles for 43 bucks!), but I have found that I am printing more because of the increased amount and the lower cost.

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/abdeco1gasem.html

 

[MarkL]

Wow thanks An Le-qun! I'll look into that.

 

[An Le-qun]

I can't recommend the Ultrafine product highly enough. I forgot to mention shipping charges, but even with that, the price is still unbeatable.

You mention mixing your own; as you'll read on some other threads, that's probably not the most cost-effective way to go about it, but--and I say this because of your comment 'lith is a trip'--it adds another really interesting and potentially trippy aspect. The homemade stuff that I use is not by any stretch my main stuff (that's Ultrafine, now), but it's still a blast. Try it. Generally lousy throughput on the homebrew, but still fun.