Linhof Technika IV lens suggestion

Camerarabbit · May 14, 2020

Hi all!

I recently acquired a Linhof Technika IV and have a 90mm Angulon which I like but doesnt feel like my preferred local length. I'm looking for something tighter/ equivalent to a 40mm on a 35mm camera, so a 135 or 150mm. My question is, can anyone recommend a lens thats GOOD but doesnt break the bank and that can just stay on the camera and fold up into the body? Looking for my OTL (one true love/lens)

Thank you for your suggestions!

btaylor · May 15, 2020

150mm Schneider-Kreuznach was what often came on them new, that’s what’s on mine. Folds up fine, says Linhof on the shutter. Nice standard focal length on 4x5.

Ian Grant · May 15, 2020

You could look for a 135mm f5.5 Caltar S-II it's a Calumet re-branded Symmar-S and an excellent lens. I have one and it's equally as good as my 150mm f5.6 Sironar-N.

Ian

awty · May 15, 2020

My III came with a 150 Schneider, works well, sharp as a tack. Also is twin lens type, can unscrew front element to be around 400mm. Does yours have a cam for the range finder?
A 90mm Angulon is pretty limited in 4x5, the 90mm super Angulon is better.

KenS · May 15, 2020

CameronRabbit said:
Hi all!

I recently acquired a Linhof Technika IV and have a 90mm Angulon which I like but doesnt feel like my preferred local length. I'm looking for something tighter/ equivalent to a 40mm on a 35mm camera, so a 135 or 150mm. My question is, can anyone recommend a lens thats GOOD but doesnt break the bank and that can just stay on the camera and fold up into the body? Looking for my OTL (one true love/lens)

Thank you for your suggestions!

When I 'had' a Technika IV my 75mm Grandagon was 'almost' always the WA lens affixed. I eventually 'got rid' of the Technika in favour of a Monorail since I rarely ever used it 'hand held'.

Ken

David A. Goldfarb · May 15, 2020

A 150 Schneider Xenar closes in the camera, but I'm not sure a Symmar, with a bigger image circle, does. I think a 135 Symmar or Sironar or rebranded Caltar as Ian mentions will close in the camera.

Ian Grant · May 16, 2020

David reminds me with his post the Calumet also rebadged the Sironar N as a Caltar-II N, avoid earlier plain 135mm/150mm Caltar's.

The 150mm f4.5 Xenar's are surprisingly good performers, Linhof sold the Carl Zeiss 150mm Tessar (Oberocken) and this is a larger lens compared to the Carl Zeiss Jena f4.5 Tessar or the SK 150mm f4.5 Xenar (I have all three). The late black barrel SK 150mm f5.6 Xenar are the sharpest and very small and light, these were sold into the early 2,000's and were inexpensive.

Another lens to be aware of is the 135mm f4.5 Xenar however they only just cover 5x4 with little room for movement and edge/corner sharpness is best at f22 just acceptable at f16 but they were sold with equivalent cameras like the MPP MicroTechnical essentially a Linhof clone, based on the Technika as part of war reparations,

As the OP's in the US a Caltar re-branded Symmar S or Sironar N is probably the best budget buy as there's usually plenty around.

Ian

Camerarabbit · May 18, 2020

Hi again! Looking at eBay now and have a few questions. Appreciate any feedback you can give!

First question: This: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Caltar-S-I...189487?hash=item289425af2f:g:QIQAAOSwYS5eFl1s is the only Caltar I'm seeing on eBay (and the seller doesnt provide any info about shutter, might message them). My question is, how easy and how much would it cost to mount this/any lens on a lens board that would fit my Technika? Also, is there such thing as a Caltar with multicoating, and should I look for a lens with multicoating? I'm looking to do a color project with this lens...

Annnd, I found this under Sironar: https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXC-RodenS...955883?hash=item548401afab:g:E~YAAOSwApleQpWC I'd rather skip over the cheapest entry lens and get something with some personality (tho maybe the Caltar would be great, dunno) but any opinions on this lens? Thank you !

Kodachromeguy · May 18, 2020

Ian Grant said:
David reminds me with his post the Calumet also rebadged the Sironar N as a Caltar-II N, avoid earlier plain 135mm/150mm Caltar's.

Another lens to be aware of is the 135mm f4.5 Xenar however they only just cover 5x4 with little room for movement and edge/corner sharpness is best at f22 just acceptable at f16 but they were sold with equivalent cameras like the MPP MicroTechnical essentially a Linhof clone, based on the Technika as part of war reparations,

Ian

I enjoy a Xenar 135mm ƒ/4.5 lens that I bought at the old Lens & Repro in New York City in the late 1990s. The example below show a bit of darkening in the upper corners because I used front rise, but it may be from the hood and the Series VI filter holder. Expired Tri-X film, yellow filter. This is a closed Ergon Ethanol refinery in Vicksburg, Mississippi.

Camerarabbit · May 18, 2020

Kodachromeguy said:
I enjoy a Xenar 135mm ƒ/4.5 lens that I bought at the old Lens & Repro in New York City in the late 1990s. The example below show a bit of darkening in the upper corners because I used front rise, but it may be from the hood and the Series VI filter holder. Expired Tri-X film, yellow filter. This is a closed Ergon Ethanol refinery in Vicksburg, Mississippi.

View attachment 246489

Thanks! Awesome shot! Have you printed it in the darkroom?

Ian Grant · May 18, 2020

Kodachromeguy said:
I enjoy a Xenar 135mm ƒ/4.5 lens that I bought at the old Lens & Repro in New York City in the late 1990s. The example below show a bit of darkening in the upper corners because I used front rise, but it may be from the hood and the Series VI filter holder. Expired Tri-X film, yellow filter. This is a closed Ergon Ethanol refinery in Vicksburg, Mississippi.

View attachment 246489

Your example actulaly shows the vignetting by the poor image circle. I've used 135mm Tessar/Xenar lenses and they need extreme care.

Ian

Camerarabbit · May 18, 2020

Ian Grant said:
David reminds me with his post the Calumet also rebadged the Sironar N as a Caltar-II N, avoid earlier plain 135mm/150mm Caltar's.

The 150mm f4.5 Xenar's are surprisingly good performers, Linhof sold the Carl Zeiss 150mm Tessar (Oberocken) and this is a larger lens compared to the Carl Zeiss Jena f4.5 Tessar or the SK 150mm f4.5 Xenar (I have all three). The late black barrel SK 150mm f5.6 Xenar are the sharpest and very small and light, these were sold into the early 2,000's and were inexpensive.

Another lens to be aware of is the 135mm f4.5 Xenar however they only just cover 5x4 with little room for movement and edge/corner sharpness is best at f22 just acceptable at f16 but they were sold with equivalent cameras like the MPP MicroTechnical essentially a Linhof clone, based on the Technika as part of war reparations,

As the OP's in the US a Caltar re-branded Symmar S or Sironar N is probably the best budget buy as there's usually plenty around.

Ian

Hi Ian, thanks for your input. Thoughts on this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-MINT-...646553?hash=item23d662ad99:g:iNAAAOSwsEtegAuI Willing to spend $150-200...

Ian Grant · May 18, 2020

CameronRabbit said:
Hi Ian, thanks for your input. Thoughts on this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-MINT-...646553?hash=item23d662ad99:g:iNAAAOSwsEtegAuI Willing to spend $150-200...

I have one and it's an excellent lens.

Ian

abruzzi · May 18, 2020

CameronRabbit said:
My question is, how easy and how much would it cost to mount this/any lens on a lens board that would fit my Technika?

Technika IV and later use a very common, and visually distinctive lens board. You’ll notice the they have the lower corners clipped. They’re used in Technikas, Technikardans, Shen Haos, Wistas, and other cameras. When I’m looking for lenses on eBay, I tend to gravitate towards ones that already have an attached Technika lens board, because it saves me time, effort, and sometimes cost.

If you’re buying a lens without the lens board you need, the first thing you need to determine is the shutter hole size. Some places like KEH list it (when listing used boards for sale) with an actual measurement, I.e. 35mm. But usually you’ll see it listed as “Copal 0” or “Compur 1” or similar. That’s because each shutter has a standard hole size. If the seller doesn’t mention what shutter is on the lens, you can do a couple things. First, you can look online to see if you can find out what shutter was normally sold on the lens—though be careful. Some lenses changed over the years, or it’s possible the lens was remounted in a new shutter. Fortunately Copal and Compur seemed to match sizes, so a Copal 0 and a Compur 0 are the same hole size (and I assume the same lens element mounts and spacing, but I’ve never really confirmed that.). You can also look at the pictures and use some visual clues to determine the shutter. The 00 and 0 shutters have the usual progression of shutter speeds your used to from smaller cameras. The 1’s usually top our at 1/400. The 3’s top out at 1/125.

the Caltar in your link looks like a Copal 0 to me, but I’m far from an expert. So you would probably need a Technika board drilled for a #0 shutter. You can look on eBay, and will find the from about $20-???? If you’re buying a board less lens, the other important thing to check is if the lens includes a retaining ring. This is required to mount the lens to the board rigidly. The shutter has a large diameter externally threaded shaft about the diameter of the hole on the board. It slides through the board and a threaded ring screws in from the back and clamps the board to the shutter. Then when that is tight, the rear lens element is screwed back into the rear of the shutter.

this is a quick overview from someone who is far from an expert, but others can chime in if I misstated anything.

Camerarabbit · May 18, 2020

abruzzi said:
Technika IV and later use a very common, and visually distinctive lens board. You’ll notice the they have the lower corners clipped. They’re used in Technikas, Technikardans, Shen Haos, Wistas, and other cameras. When I’m looking for lenses on eBay, I tend to gravitate towards ones that already have an attached Technika lens board, because it saves me time, effort, and sometimes cost.

If you’re buying a lens without the lens board you need, the first thing you need to determine is the shutter hole size. Some places like KEH list it (when listing used boards for sale) with an actual measurement, I.e. 35mm. But usually you’ll see it listed as “Copal 0” or “Compur 1” or similar. That’s because each shutter has a standard hole size. If the seller doesn’t mention what shutter is on the lens, you can do a couple things. First, you can look online to see if you can find out what shutter was normally sold on the lens—though be careful. Some lenses changed over the years, or it’s possible the lens was remounted in a new shutter. Fortunately Copal and Compur seemed to match sizes, so a Copal 0 and a Compur 0 are the same hole size (and I assume the same lens element mounts and spacing, but I’ve never really confirmed that.). You can also look at the pictures and use some visual clues to determine the shutter. The 00 and 0 shutters have the usual progression of shutter speeds your used to from smaller cameras. The 1’s usually top our at 1/400. The 3’s top out at 1/125.

the Caltar in your link looks like a Copal 0 to me, but I’m far from an expert. So you would probably need a Technika board drilled for a #0 shutter. You can look on eBay, and will find the from about $20-???? If you’re buying a board less lens, the other important thing to check is if the lens includes a retaining ring. This is required to mount the lens to the board rigidly. The shutter has a large diameter externally threaded shaft about the diameter of the hole on the board. It slides through the board and a threaded ring screws in from the back and clamps the board to the shutter. Then when that is tight, the rear lens element is screwed back into the rear of the shutter.

this is a quick overview from someone who is far from an expert, but others can chime in if I misstated anything.

amazing, thank you, abruzzi!

Camerarabbit · May 18, 2020

Ian Grant said:
I have one and it's an excellent lens.

Ian

thanks!

Kodachromeguy · May 18, 2020

CameronRabbit said:
Thanks! Awesome shot! Have you printed it in the darkroom?

Thanks for the kind words. I have not printed it yet. I donated my darkroom (4x5" Beseler enlarger, huge stainless sink) to the local high school. The art teacher offered B&W film classes for many years, but I do not know if they have used it recently. Right now, the schools are still closed for virus protection.

I checked the vignetting on the ground glass. The vignetting in the refinery picture is from a hood that is a bit too deep. In the future, I will use series VI filters with a flat retaining ring rather than a hood. Below is another 135mm ƒ/4.5 Xenar example. The patterned concrete road surface is original from the 1920s.

Ian Grant · May 19, 2020

Andrew, I don't doubt the 135,, f4.5 Xenar isn't a capable lens, I have one I've used occasionally and I've used a 135mm f4.5 CZJ Tessar as well but you need extra care to keep the image inside the image circle with movements and edge/corner quality is poor at f11 and wider, acceptable at f16, but excellent at f22. A 135mm f5.6 Sironar N or Symmar S is very significantly better, room for better,movements, sharper at wider apertures.

I prefer a 150mm f4.5 Tessar or Xenar over the 135mm, but if the 135mm Xenar was all I had would use it, carefully I did make some excellent images with my CZJ 135mm Tessar but it was uncoated and that causes separate issues, my CZJ 150mm f4.5 Tessar is coated and the makes a big difference.

Ian

Camerarabbit · May 29, 2020

Ian Grant said:
You could look for a 135mm f5.5 Caltar S-II it's a Calumet re-branded Symmar-S and an excellent lens. I have one and it's equally as good as my 150mm f5.6 Sironar-N.

Ian

Is there a 180mm lens that folds into the camera? have decided that I'm looking for a tighter focal length than 150...really inspired by these images and think in part because of the focal length: https://www.josephbellows.com/artists/gregory-conniff/featured-works?view=slider#15

Camerarabbit · May 29, 2020

Ian Grant said:
I have one and it's an excellent lens.

Ian

When I went back to eBay the lens was gone! Is there a 180mm lens that folds into the camera? have decided that I'm looking for a tighter focal length than 150...really inspired by these images and think in part because of the focal length: https://www.josephbellows.com/artists/gregory-conniff/featured-works?view=slider#15

Bob S · May 29, 2020

CameronRabbit said:
When I went back to eBay the lens was gone! Is there a 180mm lens that folds into the camera? have decided that I'm looking for a tighter focal length than 150...really inspired by these images and think in part because of the focal length: https://www.josephbellows.com/artists/gregory-conniff/featured-works?view=slider#15

No modern 180 will fold into a Technika, 150 on a recessed board is the longest. But 150 in a 1 shutter won’t fold. Look at the bed of your camera. Between the tracks you will see a circle. For a lens to close the front rim must fit inside that circle. Plus the length of the lens when inside the body must be short enough to fit cleanly within the circle without touching the bed itself.

Ian Grant · May 29, 2020

Bob S said:
No modern 180 will fold into a Technika, 150 on a recessed board is the longest. But 150 in a 1 shutter won’t fold. Look at the bed of your camera. Between the tracks you will see a circle. For a lens to close the front rim must fit inside that circle. Plus the length of the lens when inside the body must be short enough to fit cleanly within the circle without touching the bed itself.

I'm surprised a 150mm f4.5 Tessar or Xenar all of which are in a #1 shutter won't fold into a Technika, although my West Geraman Linhof Carl Zeiss Tessar is larger than a CZJ Tessar or Schneiedre Xenar. They will fold away in an MPP MicroTechniacal which is essentially a British Linhof, based on the WWII era Technikas (legallyas part of war reparations).

Personally I think it important taht my main lens folds away with the camera.

CameronRabbit said:
When I went back to eBay the lens was gone! Is there a 180mm lens that folds into the camera? have decided that I'm looking for a tighter focal length than 150...really inspired by these images and think in part because of the focal length: https://www.josephbellows.com/artists/gregory-conniff/featured-works?view=slider#15

Bob is the expert on what will fold into te camera. I've never used a Linhof.

Ian

138S · May 29, 2020

Ian Grant said:
I've never used a Linhof.

Every photographer should use it at least once in a life time.

Bob S · May 29, 2020

Ian Grant said:
I'm surprised a 150mm f4.5 Tessar or Xenar all of which are in a #1 shutter won't fold into a Technika, although my West Geraman Linhof Carl Zeiss Tessar is larger than a CZJ Tessar or Schneiedre Xenar. They will fold away in an MPP MicroTechniacal which is essentially a British Linhof, based on the WWII era Technikas (legallyas part of war reparations).

Personally I think it important taht my main lens folds away with the camera.

Bob is the expert on what will fold into te camera. I've never used a Linhof.

Ian

He asked about a 180mm.

David A. Goldfarb · May 29, 2020

Ian Grant said:
I'm surprised a 150mm f4.5 Tessar or Xenar all of which are in a #1 shutter won't fold into a Technika.
Ian

A 150/4.5 Xenar on a flat board does fold in a Technika.

As for a 180, if you really need it to fold in the camera, maybe something like a 7" Dagor would fit in a small enough shutter to close in the camera, but it would be hard to find, and you would probably have to make a project of it to find one, maybe in barrel, and have it mounted in a shutter that fits, which could end up costing as much as a more modern lens, though the Dagor would still be a great lens with a huge image circle.

On the other hand, if you're mainly shooting architecture like in the Joseph Bellows images you linked, do you really need a lens that folds in the camera? Putting a lens on a Technika and setting it at infinity is a quick operation. If you're using camera movements and a tripod, then the rangefinder isn't as important, and you're not shooting action handheld where you'll want to open the camera and pull the standard forward as quickly as possible. You'll be carrying the camera, a tripod, filmholders, a light meter, and possibly other accessories like filters and a lens shade, so it's not like a lens outside the camera adds much to your kit.

Linhof Technika IV lens suggestion

Camerarabbit

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Linhof Technika IV lens suggestion

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