Linhof Technika 23/69

[abruzzi]

I don’t know what the correct name for this camera is—23 or 69, or something else. Since this camera looks like a large format camera with pieces (grip, roll film back, rangefinder, etc.) available to make it shootable handheld, I’m curious if anyone here has shot with one and if shooting it handheld is comfortable/convenient.

given the scarcity of 2x3 sheet film this camera would only make sense to me if I could load it with roll film, focus it with a rangefinder, and frame and shoot it with a built in viewfinder rather than cut sheet use. If I were to buy one with a single 100/105 lens, assuming it has the focusing cam for other lenses, do those lenses need to be matched to the cam, or is it sufficient that they are the same focal length?

 

[AgX]

All rangefinder Linhofs need (or at least have) matched cams.
But of the 6x9 also a version without rangefinder exists.

For both models, Technika 6x9 and Technika 70, a press version with helicoid barrel instead of front standard exists.
The 6x9 Press still yields the rear movements, the Press 70 is static.
These press models of course handle differently, more so for the 70, as it got a crank that both winds the Rollex back and cocks the shutter. That crank can even be substituted by a swivelleing handgrip..
The 70 in both versions got an uncoupled light meter too.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

The world of Linhof is rather complicated. Maybe this can help:

1. The cams DO need to be matched to the lens serial numbers.
2. If the camera comes with only one lens, hopefully it is one of the original ones sold with the camera and at least that lens will have the correct cam. ASK before you buy.
3. If you use the ground glass back to focus, then you can use any lens.
4. If you use the ground glass back, then you need to remove it and substitute the roll film holder. The Horseman VH camera suffers from the same inconvenience.
5. Many used lenses in the Linhof shutter no longer have the cam with them. These were probably from sets that were broken up years or decades ago.
6. Gorgeous precision, but beware: a bit heavy.

Good luck with your search.

 

[abruzzi]

The lens on the camera is a “technika” Xenar lens, so I’m presuming the lens is original. I asked about the cams because I know with the 4x5 Technikas, earlier versions (IV and earlier, I believe) the cam had to match the specific lens example, but later 4x5 Technikas were more flexible with the cams. So I take it, the 2x3 is like the older 4x5 in this regard? Which is kind of annoying given that the cam on the 2x3 is three sided for three different lenses. It means that even if I get a Technika branded 180 and 65 I can’t use them with the existing 65/105/180 cam?

that does take it down a notch. The thought/goal was a interchangeable lens 6x9 roll film camera. There are very few options, the Fuji G690 and GL690 are the main ones I know of. The Linhof with a cam and three lenses could get me there too, but for me, only if shooting it as a rangefinder.

 

[jtk]

Always have wanted one but Kodachromguy is right in every detail. I have a Baby Graphic (Grahic 23) that does everything Linhof can do and is just as frustrating (tho a lot lighter, so less exercise).

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Another possible option: look for a Horseman VHR. I think (but please let me know if I am wrong) that the cams are generic, meaning for the appropriate focal length lens. I recall that they did not have an engraved lens serial number. The Topcor lenses have an excellent reputation. In the old days, you could even buy an extension back to make the VHR a 4x5" camera.

 

[btaylor]

So the solution is to purchase the Linhof kit with the three matched lenses, like they did in the old days. I do see them at times on eBay. It was my dream set up when I was a teenager- never got one, way out of my league!

 

[wjlapier]

I was wondering about the cams myself lately. I have a Super Technika IV 6x9 that has the cam but no original lens. I have a 65mm and 105mm lens but waiting for the new bellows to arrive so I can test the camera. Mine came in pretty bad shape and I cleaned it up and am about to test it with the two lens I have. I'm wondering if you can use the 65mm lens with a non matching cam and still obtain sharp focus at smaller apertures at infinity using the rangefinder/viewfinder. I still need to find a 65mm mask since mine is a B camera but I'll do what ever I need to to make it work.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

I would be interesting to figure out how Linhof configured and cut the cam to match the lens; would that have been made by measuring the actual lens or from calculated?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have a Tech V 23b. It’s heavy as medium format cameras go, but very versatile. I’m used to shooting with a 4x5” Technika and other larger cameras, so the 23 seems like my lightweight travel and snapshot camera that can get real serious and make like a view camera if it wants to.

Right now it’s at Precision Camera Works getting a new bellows, repairing one shutter, and for general adjustment. They will also grind cams to work with your lenses. Cams are serial number matched to individual lenses to account for slight differences in focal length among lenses of the same type from the same manufacturer. They can also install infinity stops and scales accurately, calibrate the rangefinder and groundglass, and shim lenses so that, in some cases, two lenses can use the same infinity stop (one may be with a recessed or extension lensboard or you may have to move the rail to a different click stop). My lenses were cammed by the late Martin Arndt, who used to handle Linhof Service in the US. PCW used to be in Chicago, just moved to California.

 

[abruzzi]

I have a Tech V 23b. It’s heavy as medium format cameras go, but very versatile. I’m used to shooting with a 4x5” Technika and other larger cameras, so the 23 seems like my lightweight travel and snapshot camera that can get real serious and make like a view camera if it wants to.

Right now it’s at Precision Camera Works getting a new bellows, repairing one shutter, and for general adjustment. They will also grind cams to work with your lenses. Cams are serial number matched to individual lenses to account for slight differences in focal length among lenses of the same type from the same manufacturer. They can also install infinity stops and scales accurately, calibrate the rangefinder and groundglass, and shim lenses so that, in some cases, two lenses can use the same infinity stop (one may be with a recessed or extension lensboard or you may have to move the rail to a different click stop). My lenses were cammed by the late Martin Arndt, who used to handle Linhof Service in the US. PCW used to be in Chicago, just moved to California.

Thanks, that's really helpful to know. What are they charging to grind a cam? I checked and the camera I'm looking at has a cam matched to the 105/2.8 lens that is on it, but it doesn't have any other lenses. However I see on ebay that Schneider/Technika 65mm and 180mm lenses are reasonably affordable. What it doesn't have is a roll film back. right now, I see a lot of 6x6 rollex backs and a 56x72 super rollex for the smaller cameras. (Question: if I see a back that the seller says is for 4x5, but the photo shows the side facing the lens has a large circle inscribed in it for rotating, does that mean it is actually for a 2x3?)

 

[villagephotog]

.. The thought/goal was a interchangeable lens 6x9 roll film camera. There are very few options, the Fuji G690 and GL690 are the main ones I know of. The Linhof with a cam and three lenses could get me there too, but for me, only if shooting it as a rangefinder.

Another option would be the Mamiya Press system, which is a 6x9 system but is also easily used as a 6x7 (or even 6x8, if you have a Universal [the last body made] and are willing to jump through a couple of small hoops).

The cameras are rangefinders and don't require special cams for the lenses. The rangefinder focusing on my Universal has worked perfectly with 4 different lenses without any calibrations needed, but if calibrations are required, they can be done fairly easily.

Very good lenses are available from 50mm to 250mm, and many are quite reasonably priced. Most have maximum apertures typical of the 1960s, rather than the 70s or 80s. The 50mm and 65mm, for example, are f/6.3 lenses, rather than f/4.5, which became the norm in the 70s.

It's a big, heavy, all-mechanical system, but definitely hand holdable (they are press cameras, after all). There are no meters or batteries. And no safety interlocks -- you are free to make accidental double exposures or remove the back or lens without a dark slide inserted as many times as you like. In my experience, reliability is fairly good for cameras and lenses that are 45-65 years old. Everything is built to the Japanese professional standards of the time (read: heavy metal). That said, I've had a 6x7 back fail, which nearly cost me a shot I like (shown below), and I've seen a couple of bad shutters in lenses, as well as a lens that has a substantial optical tilt (all of those faults are often found in any brand or system that is multiple decades old).

A very good way to get to know this system is to download the Mamiya Universal instruction manual from Butkus here:

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_universal_black/mamiya_universal_black.htm

This was shot with a 150mm f/5.6 lens that I cobbled together out of two broken ones for a total of $40, shipping included (one had a bad shutter but good glass; the other had bad glass but a good shutter).

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thanks, that's really helpful to know. What are they charging to grind a cam? I checked and the camera I'm looking at has a cam matched to the 105/2.8 lens that is on it, but it doesn't have any other lenses. However I see on ebay that Schneider/Technika 65mm and 180mm lenses are reasonably affordable. What it doesn't have is a roll film back. right now, I see a lot of 6x6 rollex backs and a 56x72 super rollex for the smaller cameras. (Question: if I see a back that the seller says is for 4x5, but the photo shows the side facing the lens has a large circle inscribed in it for rotating, does that mean it is actually for a 2x3?)

You would have to ask PCW for their rates for grinding cams, and if the camera hasn’t been serviced in a long time, it will probably also need a general CLA and rangefinder/groundglass calibration, so there are often other costs associated with camming lenses. If there’s a cam in the camera, they may be able to adapt it to the new lenses, but if not, there would be a charge for the new blank cam.

A Linhof back for the 2x3” Technika should have the circle on the side that faces the lens. A Linhof back for 4x5” cameras does not.

A Rollex back with the knob wind has a design issue that can result in overlapping frames with some modern 120 films. A Super-Rollex back with the lever wind does not have that problem. A Rapid Rollex back, if you can find one, slips under the groundglass like a sheet film holder.