Limited edition

[cliveh]

Well the ones I saw the 20/500 were selling for $20,000 each and would increase by increments of like $5,000 each time one sold... It was certainly not fair when I can't sell my favorite image for $375.... Lol


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you sure they were selling at $20,000 each and not just priced at that? There is a world of difference between price and actual sale.

 

[eddie]

Limited editions are a pretentious and superficial old marketing ploy that never really worked.

I disagree. I've editioned 20x24's for art festivals and galleries. Sure, it's a marketing ploy, but it works. Smaller sizes are open ended, and the LE's are much more expensive, but people will pay for the perceived exclusivity. My mistake, starting out, was editions of 100. I wish I had chosen 25. Still, I probably have close to 10 images which are near (or over) the 50/100 mark.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with numbering prints, as long as you're honest about your edition numbering. In a gallery, or art festival, it allows you to hit price points which can compete with other media.

 

[StoneNYC]

I disagree. I've editioned 20x24's for art festivals and galleries. Sure, it's a marketing ploy, but it works. Smaller sizes are open ended, and the LE's are much more expensive, but people will pay for the perceived exclusivity. My mistake, starting out, was editions of 100. I wish I had chosen 25. Still, I probably have close to 10 images which are near (or over) the 50/100 mark.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with numbering prints, as long as you're honest about your edition numbering. In a gallery, or art festival, it allows you to hit price points which can compete with other media.

Well you can always make 10 to start with but bit sell 1/25 but instead start with 10/25 or 8/25 so the perception changes, you aren't cheating exactly haha


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eddie]

Well you can always make 10 to start with but bit sell 1/25 but instead start with 10/25 or 8/25 so the perception changes, you aren't cheating exactly haha

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying edition the prints at 25, but start numbering them at 8/25?

 

[removed account4]

Limited editions are a pretentious and superficial old marketing ploy that never really worked. Let the market decide how many you sell. If you only sell one it is more valuable as a single work of art than if you sell a thousand.

hi clive

i have never made single prints to be superficial, a marketing ploy, or as a gimmick
and i continue to make them.

when i started to make these images, i stuffed the things in and under the enlarger and when i got a good image
i removed the stuff and made something else.
just to give an example, i have a series of images i made from a sheet of glass with liquid wax ( and other things ) on and in it.
when the wax hardened to something solid that light couldn't pass through, it was done.

there is no way i could replicate the images i got, or other hybrid prints i have made ...
i guess i could make a paper negative ? or a camera negative ( or scans )
and machine printed off 10 or 20 or ? prints of the same image .. but i don't really see the point ...
and the people who have the images i have made have been happy to have something in their collection ( or on their wall )
that no one else has, or can replicate ....

i can understand why photographers don't like that idea or one image, after all, a negative ( or skkan ) allows a photograph to be made an infinite number of times ... this strength is photography's greatest weakness.

 

[StoneNYC]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying edition the prints at 25, but start numbering them at 8/25?

No I'm saying make 10 prints to start with, but store 1/25-7/25 and sell 8/25 FIRST, so you MADE 1/25 first, but held off on selling it, gives the appearance of a popular print, also can stager the numbers at different galleries or shows so SOME are 1/25 and others are higher... It's a scam but technically you did make print 1 first, but then when you sell the first 10 then you make more of course.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eddie]

I consider that dishonest. I don't want my work to be in any way associated with the word "scam".

There have occasionally been times when I've sold # 27 before #26, but it's because I hand-paint, and the client preferred the colors in #27. Still, they were well aware of the existence of #26, and the circumstance behind the sale.

 

[StoneNYC]

I consider that dishonest. I don't want my work to be in any way associated with the word "scam".

There have occasionally been times when I've sold # 27 before #26, but it's because I hand-paint, and the client preferred the colors in #27. Still, they were well aware of the existence of #26, and the circumstance behind the sale.

I didn't mean it as truth, it was more said as harhar but not to be taken as a real suggestion.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eddie]

I know, but the art world is loaded with stories of scams...
Regardless of your endeavor (be it photography, or anything else), you have to look in the mirror. All you really have is your integrity. I've had people collecting my work for 20 years. Every year, or two, they buy something. Some own 2 dozen images. They keep buying because they know I won't scam them.

 

[StoneNYC]

I know, but the art world is loaded with stories of scams...
Regardless of your endeavor (be it photography, or anything else), you have to look in the mirror. All you really have is your integrity. I've had people collecting my work for 20 years. Every year, or two, they buy something. Some own 2 dozen images. They keep buying because they know I won't scam them.

That's great, so what if you were to hang your work at 10 galleries and you gave each gallery 10 of the same pieces (let's say you were starting out, not much money so you could only make 10 of the same to save at framing/matte/print but wanted to get your name out there and had the opportunity to hang free in all the galleries) would you give each gallery one 1/10 one 2/10 etc etc 10/10 or would you give the first gallery all the 1/10's the second all the 2/10's etc.

Which scenario would you choose and do either strike you as a scam?


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eddie]

It's a highly unlikely scenario to be in 10 galleries at one time. However, I'll play along... If the edition was 10, each gallery would get 1 of that image. 1/10, 2/10, etc. If your talking about hanging 10 different images, it may make sense to give each gallery the same edition number, mostly because it would be easier to keep track. That's not a scam. A scam would be to claim the edition was 10, but making 20 (having 2 number 1's, etc.). A scam would be to claim an edition is 10, but falsely claiming that numbers 1-6 have been sold when, in fact, they never existed.

 

[StoneNYC]

It's a highly unlikely scenario to be in 10 galleries at one time. However, I'll play along... If the edition was 10, each gallery would get 1 of that image. 1/10, 2/10, etc. If your talking about hanging 10 different images, it may make sense to give each gallery the same edition number, mostly because it would be easier to keep track. That's not a scam. A scam would be to claim the edition was 10, but making 20 (having 2 number 1's, etc.). A scam would be to claim an edition is 10, but falsely claiming that numbers 1-6 have been sold when, in fact, they never existed.

Thanks for playing along, the second scenario "ten different images" was what I was referring to.

I wouldn't claim that they were sold for sure, but knowing gallery owners who are all about profit to keep the money flowing,they would have that opportunity but I'm sure you vet them.

I guess I'm done with scenarios, you're a stand up guy.

I'll be as honest as I can with gallery owners, trying to convince them that Kodachrome can't be processed by a home lab is hard sometimes, the newer ones don't understand and don't believe me...


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jim Jones]

hi jim

i don't understand this at all.

what if a photographer didn't want to be pinned down
and have to print the same old boring negative 500 or 200 or 100 or 20 times ?
when i was making single edition prints, it was because the idea of a singular image
really differentiates a photograph as a hand made object, unlike something that can be
obtained by pressing a button &c. i still believe this today ( 20+ years later ) ...
it always makes me laugh when i hear of someone with an edition of 500 images.

what's the point, to flood the marketplace with "loved images" ?

If the public demands 500 prints, raise the price and hire a darkroom assistant. It sounds awfully unfair to deny people prints they really want just to make one client happy with a singular image.

 

[markbarendt]

If the public demands 500 prints, raise the price and hire a darkroom assistant. It sounds awfully unfair to deny people prints they really want just to make one client happy with a singular image.

No, not unfair.

There are certain things that are just one of a kind and that's it.

For me it's also not about making one or 10 clients happy, personally I don't necessarily want to make 5, 50, or 500 of any any one print.

 

[StoneNYC]

No, not unfair.

There are certain things that are just one of a kind and that's it.

For me it's also not about making one or 10 clients happy, personally I don't necessarily want to make 5, 50, or 500 of any any one print.

You're fortunate to have that luxury I suppose, if anyone offered me a chance to sell 500 of the same print I might start crying with joy or my face permanently stuck smiling. I guess it's about your level in life.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[markbarendt]

You're fortunate to have that luxury I suppose, if anyone offered me a chance to sell 500 of the same print I might start crying with joy or my face permanently stuck smiling. I guess it's about your level in life.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Its just a choice Stone.

The problem with a 500 print order, for me, is printing 500 "dupes" in an enlarger. That is a lot of tedious work and time and spotting and ...

 

[StoneNYC]

Its just a choice Stone.

The problem with a 500 print order, for me, is printing 500 "dupes" in an enlarger. That is a lot of tedious work and time and spotting and ...

Choice is relative if you're starving...


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[markbarendt]

Choice is relative if you're starving...


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

True, but the unit price will probably be different.

Selling one at $1000 may be a profitable thing,

Selling 1000 at $10 may not even cover costs, even though it is 10 times the revenue.

It depends on the business model.

 

[removed account4]

If the public demands 500 prints, raise the price and hire a darkroom assistant. It sounds awfully unfair to deny people prints they really want just to make one client happy with a singular image.

hi jim

i see what you are saying
but i don't find it unfair at all
to deny the public or my clients ...

i don't really need to hire a lab assistant or any of that
i have done runs of 500 prints before, it really isn't that hard
when you are processing 16 prints at a time ...

instead i would rather make single images and have my clients
pay a fair price knowing there aren't 19 or 49 or 99 or 199 or 499 of the same image
floating around ...

stone,
its not a permanent smile or grin, its being imprisoned by one's work.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

sarah,
congrats.great success!the best text i've ever seen on this subject is from brook jensen. google'what size edition', and you'll find his article. limit myself to 12 first and then open up to 50 is demand warrants that move.i have not sold all my editions but have sold some.

 

[Diapositivo]

The reason why a client would like to have a limited edition is that, if you happen to become famous in the future or if your image appears on TV and all the US want to have a copy in their living room, their "bet" on the quality of your work is paid back.

An art buyer can be seen as somebody thinking he has the taste to understand art before the greater market will. Art collectors see themselves as skilful investors. It was always like that. When the Colonna and the Pamphilj of this world built their "galleries" of contemporary masterpieces, the masterpieces were not necessarily priced as masterpieces. Only time gave them justice as fine collectors.
When a - say - Cardinal Scipione Borghese bought a statue or a painting, he was doing it not just for the pleasure of owning, but for the pleasure of "betting" on his own good taste and on his "nose" for art, and the pleasure of building a collection as a reflection of your own "nose" in art is probably not less than the pleasure of owning the art pieces.

Your art collection doesn't speak about your purse only. It also speaks about your taste and your intelligence.

If somebody buys a picture don't rule out that he does it in the same spirit of those great collectors of the past. He buys a work which he hopes one day to become a recognised work by a recognised artist. In buying your work, he's "betting on you" as an artist. There's also a number game here: you buy 100 works, and if 1 or 2 actually work out to be perceived as important works, that might compensate the expense on all the others.

So, to answer the original question, some people say that the right number is around 100 for a BIG image.

100 guarantees the buyer that, if you happen to become famous, his investment in your work will pay back. 100 doesn't really limit your likely income, but does give an incentive to a buyer: remember he might be buying not just for his personal use, but with an hope of a future larger reward.
Leaving an edition "unlimited" doesn't give any incentive in "betting on your work" to such kind of collector. You might sell to the merely aesthetically driven buyer, but not to the "old style" collector.

I say BIG image because if you happen to become famous and widely acknowledged you will honour your 100 limited edition for the large prints but you will print, in larger or unlimited editions, some smaller sizes of the same image. That is perfectly acceptable practice as far as I understand and will actually possibly increase the value of the big size photographs printed as limited edition.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

printing in the darkroom makes every print unique. it's getting hard to say what an original photograph is;the negative?.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Gosh. How do you keep from going insane personally printing the same thing over and over again?
The whole limited edition concept is pretty silly. If someone is working from and etched lithographic
plate or stone, it just wears out. So-called photolithographs, by comparisons, are sometimes made
in "limited" editions of tens of thousands, just in case there are that many suckers out there, because they are generally worth far less than the frame they're put in. Once in awhile I've accepted a high premium from somone wanting me to sell them a unique print, never printed again.
But a lot of this sounds like gallery marketing tricks as usual. Some photographers have resorted to
pricing the first ten or so prints at one level, then raising the price on successive batches. Still,
are that many really going to sell, or is this just jockeying the perceived value of the print? My
custom is just to make two or three of any given image, with one reserved for my own collection.
Move on to the next image. But I'm really of the same mind as Stieglitz - there only one "best" print
of anything.

 

[marciofs]

How about price? I am doing contact prints from medium format and 5x7 large format. Limiting the editions to 10. Have a start price at 150 euro sounds resonable for the print size?

 

[StoneNYC]

How about price? I am doing contact prints from medium format and 5x7 large format. Limiting the editions to 10. Have a start price at 150 euro sounds resonable for the print size?

That all depends on your popularity and the quality of the work, if your name is known then you can charge more, etc, depends on how it's framed and matted as well, custom framing is costly so sometimes they want to customize but other times they want it already framed. This whole things is highly subjective.