Lightpainting with 120 Film Cameras: How to estimate exposure?

[cayenne]

Hi all,

I was pondering something new to do....and it popped into my brain to maybe try some light painting at night, with various MF cameras I have....particualrly the larger ones.

My first thought for something REALLY unusual, was try try it with the 6x17 view camera, maybe with a car and the lake with palm trees there.

Ok, let's assume it is pretty dark...and somehow I get composition and focus.

I can use my cable release to bulb it open, first time actually WANTING the darned thing to stay open and locked...haha.

But how would I figure how much I'd have to do to get a decent exposure on film?

I've played with this on digital, but with that, I just would try a few test shots and look at the results on the back to get my timing, etc....and even with that, I'd shoot multiple images lighting different parts of the subject..example a car....some shots painting the wheels, the parts of the hood, etc.
After this I'dl composite them in Affinity Photo or PS.

But with my big pano camera...not sure how'd I'd pull this off.

I"m guessing I'd go with a decently small aperture, maybe f/16 or so...?

But say I'm using 400 or even 160 for doing a really long exposure....how would I go about figuring out how long to go?

It is going to be purely experiment and see if any of the 4 shots per roll of 120 film come out? Maybe I have to end up compositing them anyway?

Anyway....the idea struck me as an interesting and different one, and wondering if someone could give suggestions about pulling of successful exposure with light painting, with the environment being essentialy dark and the light painting being the predominant source of light.

Thank you in advance!!

C

 

[shutterfinger]

Light is light, exposure is exposure, it does not matter if the recording medium is electronic or chemical or its physical size. What will matter is color of the light source and its recorded color.

 

[cayenne]

Light is light, exposure is exposure, it does not matter if the recording medium is electronic or chemical or its physical size. What will matter is color of the light source and its recorded color.

Well, true....but since film is $$ and I don't have any way to know what it looks like till done...not sure how I"d figure how long I"d need to keep shutter locked open while I ran around with a flashlight "painting" parts in the image.

I suppose I could set up a digital camera, try to set it to mimic the film settings on the 6x17 camera and run around out there as an experiment to see what the exposure time requires.....and see how it looks on that digital, and then replace it with the film camera and try to emulate what I did there.

I was just guessing I can't be the first person to want to try such a thing and hoped the experts out there who have helped me so much on other questions might have advice, pointers or links to info the would recommend.

Thanks for the feedback....still looking for more input please!


Thank you,
C

 

[shutterfinger]

Popular Photography or Photographic magazine had an article on painting with light. I do not remember the exact date but it was likely between 1986 and 1998.
The area you are in will determine the maximum time you can leave the shutter open. Such things as street lights near by or background lights miles away will register in 10 to 30 seconds.
Your digital set to the same ISO as the film you plan to use and aperture set to what you plan to use on the film camera should give you a good starting point with no waste. DoF will be shallower on the film camera than it is on the digital.
San Francisco City Hall from Twin Peaks ( 2 miles) on a moonless night with no area street lights at the shooting place was 10 seconds on ISO 400 color film at f8 metered in camera and a 30 second exposure was way over exposed.

 

[k.hendrik]

Hi all,

I was pondering something new to do....and it popped into my brain to maybe try some light painting at night, with various MF cameras I have....particualrly the larger ones.

My first thought for something REALLY unusual, was try try it with the 6x17 view camera, maybe with a car and the lake with palm trees there.

Ok, let's assume it is pretty dark...and somehow I get composition and focus.

I can use my cable release to bulb it open, first time actually WANTING the darned thing to stay open and locked...haha.

But how would I figure how much I'd have to do to get a decent exposure on film?

I've played with this on digital, but with that, I just would try a few test shots and look at the results on the back to get my timing, etc....and even with that, I'd shoot multiple images lighting different parts of the subject..example a car....some shots painting the wheels, the parts of the hood, etc.
After this I'dl composite them in Affinity Photo or PS.

But with my big pano camera...not sure how'd I'd pull this off.

I"m guessing I'd go with a decently small aperture, maybe f/16 or so...?

But say I'm using 400 or even 160 for doing a really long exposure....how would I go about figuring out how long to go?

It is going to be purely experiment and see if any of the 4 shots per roll of 120 film come out? Maybe I have to end up compositing them anyway?

Anyway....the idea struck me as an interesting and different one, and wondering if someone could give suggestions about pulling of successful exposure with light painting, with the environment being essentialy dark and the light painting being the predominant source of light.

Thank you in advance!!

C

Try "Gandolfi" on this site.

 

[MattKing]

You want to aim for longish light application times - in seconds - so you can control the results, and make them repeatable.
Remember that the exposure will be determined by the length of the exposure, the intensity of the light source and the distance between the source and the subject. Work toward using a standard light to subject distance and an easily repeatable exposure time.
An incident meter with good low light capabilities will help.
And you will need to experiment with how much and how fast you need to move the painting light source in order to replicate a stationary light source.
And you should expect to have fun!

 

[Dan Fromm]

With flash, use guide number arithmetic. It still works.

With continuous light, use incident metering. It is equivalent to using GN arithmetic. The problem with continuous light is controlling how long it is turned on, but remember, multiple exposures on the same piece of film are possible.

 

[beemermark]

To do what you want to do I think you need to use electronic flash. Using a flash with a high GN makes it easy. Measure the distance from the flash to the subject and trigger the flash while keeping the shutter open on bulb. Aperture is picked on the flash GN. Move on to the next subject. You may want to underexpose some areas and completely leave others in the dark.

 

[ic-racer]

I presume you are using flash. If you have an auto flash, set it on AUTO and trigger it manually with the lens open and try not to overlap the exposure areas. You would want to do this at night. Use the aperture indicated on the flash.

 

[cayenne]

I presume you are using flash. If you have an auto flash, set it on AUTO and trigger it manually with the lens open and try not to overlap the exposure areas. You would want to do this at night. Use the aperture indicated on the flash.

I was actually thinking of using flashlights to do the illumination......but this has given me some ideas. The multiple exposure thing could help too....I might be able to get some neat effects with flash and flashlights.

Hmm....good food for thought here....

Thank you all for all the great input!!

C

 

[cayenne]

To do what you want to do I think you need to use electronic flash. Using a flash with a high GN makes it easy. Measure the distance from the flash to the subject and trigger the flash while keeping the shutter open on bulb. Aperture is picked on the flash GN. Move on to the next subject. You may want to underexpose some areas and completely leave others in the dark.

Please pardon a noob question...but what does "GN" refer to please?

Thank you!!
C

 

[Dennis-B]

GN = Guide Number. It's the mathematical relationship between exposure in f/stops, to the light source/subject distance, using the ISO (film or sensor) as the basis.

A subject x number of feet from the light source will call for an f/stop of y, depending on the flash manufacturer's guide number expressed in meters or feet.

The Guide Number is usually just a recommendation, since light output can vary even within the same model. Even with a flash meter, you should either bracket exposures or do tests before shooting.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The Guide Number is usually just a recommendation, since light output can vary even within the same model. Even with a flash meter, you should either bracket exposures or do tests before shooting.

Hmm. Each of the little fixed-output flashes produced very consistent output. None matched its manufacturer's claimed GN. My Vivitar 283s with VP-1 units were also very consistent, again did not match Vivitar's claimed GNs. You're right, testing is necessary, but only once for each flash.

Flash meter -- I have 2 -- not necessary, but given a flash meter using it to measure GN is much less expensive than using film. No need to bracket either. Remember that using GN arithmetic is equivalent to metering incident light. In both cases, one stops down a little for pale subjects and opens up a little for light ones. Learning how much to stop down/open up takes very little experimentation/practice.

 

[Dennis-B]

Hmm. Each of the little fixed-output flashes produced very consistent output. None matched its manufacturer's claimed GN. My Vivitar 283s with VP-1 units were also very consistent, again did not match Vivitar's claimed GNs. You're right, testing is necessary, but only once for each flash.

Flash meter -- I have 2 -- not necessary, but given a flash meter using it to measure GN is much less expensive than using film. No need to bracket either. Remember that using GN arithmetic is equivalent to metering incident light. In both cases, one stops down a little for pale subjects and opens up a little for light ones. Learning how much to stop down/open up takes very little experimentation/practice.

My caution is based only on my experience. Yes, even the Vivitar 283 and it's more advanced kin, the 285 were very consistent, as are newer flashes, based on improved manufacturing standards. I started out using old Graflex and Strobonar flashes. Their output would vary some especially based on power sources. If you ran Strobonars on AC, the flash output was less than on batteries, and even that varied based on internal Nicads or 510v. Even 200 W/S units such as Lumedyne had some differences.

Since I shot mostly print film for weddings, portraits, candids, it didn't make a lot of difference, as long as you weren't off by more than a stop +/-. Vericolor II and Ektacolor were both generous in their latitude. Now when it came to transparencies...

 

[ic-racer]

I'd probably not use a manual flash; too difficult to make the distance measurements in the dark. Do they even make manual portable flashes anymore?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hot stuff, look into O. Winston Link's train photography. What he did is logically equivalent to what you want to do.

 

[John Koehrer]

You could work out exposure using a small camera and intended film, use the 6X17 for real stuff. Similarly
wasn't it Barbara Morgan that put lights on the main rotor of a fling wing death trap plus lighting from the field?

 

[cayenne]

GN = Guide Number. It's the mathematical relationship between exposure in f/stops, to the light source/subject distance, using the ISO (film or sensor) as the basis.

A subject x number of feet from the light source will call for an f/stop of y, depending on the flash manufacturer's guide number expressed in meters or feet.

The Guide Number is usually just a recommendation, since light output can vary even within the same model. Even with a flash meter, you should either bracket exposures or do tests before shooting.

Thank you!!

I'll research this more!!

C

 

[beemermark]

Hot stuff, look into O. Winston Link's train photography. What he did is logically equivalent to what you want to do.

The Roanoke VA train depot/museum is mostly devoted to his work. Incredible.