Light up filter dials safe?

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SteD

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Hello everyone.
Are the dials on some colour heads such as Durst M670 that light up safe or will they fog the paper?
Seems to me that they would but why would they be designed that way?
 

ic-racer

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I replaced the somewhat olive-colored filters over the indicator numbers with red filters, since I only use the head for B&W printing. Otherwise, for color printing, I'd keep the olive filters but have the trap door closed over the lights most of the time unless I'm doing a quick peek at the numbers.
Screen Shot 2018-08-30 at 9.20.27 AM.png
finished red.JPG
 

Wayne

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Hello everyone.
Are the dials on some colour heads such as Durst M670 that light up safe or will they fog the paper?
Seems to me that they would but why would they be designed that way?

I find it very hard to believe they would fog paper. That would be a boneheaded design oversight of simply incredulous proportions.
 

Nodda Duma

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I find it very hard to believe they would fog paper. That would be a boneheaded design oversight of simply incredulous proportions.

Like filling airships with hydrogen (yet they did it anyways).
 

MattKing

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Like filling airships with hydrogen (yet they did it anyways).
Well, they flew well (until they blew up).
When new, those displays worked well with colour paper in otherwise dark darkrooms. You had to be careful not to hold the paper too close to the dials.
My only caution would be to check that the displays haven't been modified over the years.
 
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SteD

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Thanks for replies.
I should have mentioned that I'm using it to print colour.
I agree it would seem like a ridiculous oversight, however the tech info for the paper I'm using(Kodak endura) specifies complete darkness.
 

pentaxuser

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I have a Durst M605 with colour head and when I did RA4 I never noticed any problems. I wouldn't worry about it

pentaxuser
 

BMbikerider

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In over 28 years of colour printing I have never ever had a problem. Even the blue glow from my broadband router in the same room doesn't affect it and that is about same distance away as the colour dials.
 
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SteD

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That clears that up then. Thanks all.
 

DREW WILEY

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They can definitely fog film! - if you work with that in the same room, or sometimes enlarge onto film and not just paper. I've found that even dim red LED's can screw things up, and have not only put multiple strips of neutral density gels over any control lights, but carefully aim such controls away from film toward a black wall. And in utter disagreement to some of the statements already given - YES, if you're not careful, colorhead dial lights CAN indeed fog fast color papers, and current RA4 papers are quite fast. Hopefully, your colorhead has a switch to turn off such lights when handling paper. I learned all this the hard way. Hope you don't have to. Of course, a lot depends of how far away the colorhead is from paper when in use. Best to believe the paper manufacturer : "complete darkness".
 
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Hello everyone.
Are the dials on some colour heads such as Durst M670 that light up safe or will they fog the paper?
Seems to me that they would but why would they be designed that way?
I doubt it very much; the paper doesn't come close enough to do any harm but, of course, you can test for it; but first, Do you have any fogging issues such as fogged highlights or weak midtown contrast in your prints? If not, don't create an issue when there is none.
 

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They can definitely fog film! - if you work with that in the same room, or sometimes enlarge onto film and not just paper. I've found that even dim red LED's can screw things up, and have not only put multiple strips of neutral density gels over any control lights, but carefully aim such controls away from film toward a black wall. And in utter disagreement to some of the statements already given - YES, if you're not careful, colorhead dial lights CAN indeed fog fast color papers, and current RA4 papers are quite fast. Hopefully, your colorhead has a switch to turn off such lights when handling paper. I learned all this the hard way. Hope you don't have to. Of course, a lot depends of how far away the colorhead is from paper when in use. Best to believe the paper manufacturer : "complete darkness".


But why would anyone load film with the enlarger on? <scratches head>
 

DREW WILEY

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Why? We're not talking about the exposing light, but the slightly lit-up control panel on the colorhead, or in other cases, tethered to the head with a feedback cable. Fresh film is sometimes used under an enlarger just like printing paper. You might want to make enlarged duplicate negatives or interpositives, for instance. And Ralph - I HAVE tested for it ! No guesses here. RA4 paper is fairly sensitive to stray light. Fogging is best detected on the white borders of the paper - ironic, but it's where accidental exposure is easiest to spot. As for why equipment is designed in such and such a way? Heck, even my old now gone early Chromega colorhead had a switch that turned the color control lights off. I've never owned a colorhead that didn't have that option! Must be a reason for it. I can't speak about the specific Durst colorhead in question; all my own Durst is big commercial stuff. But there's probably a switch somewhere on it too.
 
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SteD

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I doubt it very much; the paper doesn't come close enough to do any harm but, of course, you can test for it; but first, Do you have any fogging issues such as fogged highlights or weak midtown contrast in your prints? If not, don't create an issue when there is none.
I haven't noticed any issues though I only switched to this enlarger last session when the de vere I've been using stopped working at the community darkrooms. I have a durst m670 at home which I was intending to get a colour head for to use in my home darkroom which I'll be building maybe next year.
 
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SteD

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Thinking about it, the dials only light up when the lamp is lit, so when focusing or exposing. The paper is obviously on the easel when exposing and safely away when focusing. Not sure how I could test for that...
 

abruzzi

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I don't know if its paranoia, but I have a piece of electrical tape over the red LED on the GFCI outlet, and when I load film in the tank, I throw a rag over the controls/timer on the Omega Dichroic head because they glow in the dark.
 

DREW WILEY

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Talk comes cheap, film and paper doesn't. So when in doubt ...
 

pentaxuser

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Thinking about it, the dials only light up when the lamp is lit, so when focusing or exposing. The paper is obviously on the easel when exposing and safely away when focusing. Not sure how I could test for that...

You can't and given that what you say is correct as I know from having a Durst, there isn't any need to test and I believe my earlier statement stands. Thinking about it, you focus with the enlarger, including the dials on but without paper. If the previous print has a cast you change the dials in room light with enlarger off or immediately it is switched on. Of course you place the paper in the easel with everything off and then expose. During exposure both the 100W bulb's light is directed onto the paper and the much lesser dials' light which are facing out at 90 degrees into the room are on. The dials's light has to "infuse" the whole room and find its way to the paper while it is being blasted by 100W through coloured filters.

I do wonder how the dials's light in such circumstances can affect the paper's exposure.

I tell you what and just for a fun experiment and to settle matters for me and maybe others here, including the OP who may still be worried. If you have the time and inclination, make an OK print with solid black tape over the dials, then make a repeat with the dials exposed. See if you can tell the difference.

Let us know. Thanks

pentaxuser
 
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SteD

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[QUOTE="pentaxuser, post: 2110478, member: 6596"

I tell you what and just for a fun experiment and to settle matters for me and maybe others here, including the OP who may still be worried. If you have the time and inclination, make an OK print with solid black tape over the dials, then make a repeat with the dials exposed. See if you can tell the difference.

Let us know. Thanks

pentaxuser[/QUOTE]

Seems like the only way to settle it. I'll do it next session.
 

DREW WILEY

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Like I said, talk and speculation comes cheap. Try some big color paper that cost a hundred bucks a pop. That's a lot of surface area to juggle, and rather easy to get a bit of it pointed the wrong way when slowly, carefully laying it down or taking it up from a big easel. Would you gamble on some web chatter? I have three big commercial Dursts, plus an even bigger enlarger dependent on LED controls. The only safe mode for lights is "OFF". I even have black electrical tape over the red indicator on an outlet strip below the easel and anything else that glows. But I've never heard of a color enlarger with a 100W bulb. Sounds more like a keychain light. Is that a typo for 1000W ?
 

pentaxuser

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But I've never heard of a color enlarger with a 100W bulb. Sounds more like a keychain light. Is that a typo for 1000W ?
The Durst M605 which is my enlarger has a 100W but I have lowered it to 75 W as the exposure times at 100W were too short.

I only use the 1000W light to keep the darkroom warm enough to avoid switching on the Jobo for 100F C41 processing :D Maybe everything in the U.S. is much bigger, Drew

pentaxuser
 

DREW WILEY

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Doubt it. Durst was made in Italy. I once had a Durst 2000W colorhead, and yes, it would warm up a room really fast!
 
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pentaxuser

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Doubt it. Durst was made in Italy.
Quite right. I note the OP has a Durst as well but its a 670 so his can do 6x7 negs whereas mine, a 605, is limited to 6x6 . Perhaps when he reports on his results he can tell us what his bulb's wattage is. It may be more than 100W but a bit less than 1000W I suspect :D

In the M605 the light that illuminates the dials is provided by the main 75/100W bulb but this appears to be by a form of overspill i.e. the bulb is aimed through the lens but some light strays to the dials and illuminates them quite softly and the dials are at 90 degrees from the paper which is being blasted by the main bulb while the dials are lit. Once that bulb goes out then the dials go out as well. I say this, assuming your enlarger may not be a Durst and the dial illumination may be quite different.

I look forward to the OP's findings as I am sure you do as well.

pentaxuser
 

DREW WILEY

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I don't pretend to know much about small Durst gear. All of mine are from the now gone commercial division which made only large format enlargers (5x7 inch up), though they offered a full line of carriers suitable for smaller film too.
 
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