Light meter for landscape photography

removedacct1 · Jan 22, 2018

I currently use a Sekonic 308s and like it a lot.
I bought it after buying a friend's old Gossen Luna-Pro for twenty bucks, only to discover that it was 3 stops off and couldn't be repaired (the cells were too old/worn out). So I would discourage you from buying "vintage" equipment unless you can verify its accuracy.
For the price, the Sekonic 308s is a great deal.

David Allen · Jan 22, 2018

chriscrawfordphoto said:

I would not use ANY vintage meter. Most Westons are no longer accurate. I've handled over a hundred of them and only one worked reasonably well. I have a Master V that was overhauled with a new meter cell and it works great, but it cost me a lot of money. I have never seen a Norwood meter that was not in terrible condition with a severely yellowed incident dome. GE Meters were primitive designs that were not that great when new 60 yrs ago, and are worse today.

If you're doing black and white film, a spotmeter is best if you know the Zone System. I recommend a Minolta Spotmeter F, as they're very accurate, compact, reliable, and relatively inexpensive. The Pentax Spotmeter V is good too, but is large and heavy and delicate. A good one only costs about $100 used though! The Pentax digital spotmeter is good, too but is horribly overpriced because Ansel Adams used them and everyone thinks its 'the best.' It isn't, but it is very good.

If you're shooting slide film, a good incident meter is better. Minolta Autometer IVF can be bought for $120, and is one of the best. Minolta's Flash Meter IV is great, too, but most were used professionally and many of them are beat up badly and overpriced.

Click to expand...

I would not use ANY vintage meter. Most Westons are no longer accurate. I've handled over a hundred of them and only one worked reasonably well. I have a Master V that was overhauled with a new meter cell and it works great, but it cost me a lot of money. I have never seen a Norwood meter that was not in terrible condition with a severely yellowed incident dome. GE Meters were primitive designs that were not that great when new 60 yrs ago, and are worse today.

Sorry but a well kept Weston meter will be fine for most photographers providing that it is still working consistently. The key thing with any meter is not that it is accurate but whether it is consistent - the reason for this is that, if you do ‘real world’ exposure tests based upon your own equipment then your equipment will itself determine exposure that relates to your own equipment, exposure assessment technique, agitation technique, etc.

If you're doing black and white film, a spotmeter is best if you know the Zone System. I recommend a Minolta Spotmeter F, as they're very accurate, compact, reliable, and relatively inexpensive. The Pentax Spotmeter V is good too, but is large and heavy and delicate. A good one only costs about $100 used though! The Pentax digital spotmeter is good, too but is horribly overpriced because Ansel Adams used them and everyone thinks its 'the best.' It isn't, but it is very good.

Spot meters suffer from two significant problems:

They are very selective - so you have to know exactly what you are metering
As they have a lens, you have to understand that they have a different flare factor to your own equipment so you have to correct for this

If you're shooting slide film, a good incident meter is better. Minolta Autometer IVF can be bought for $120, and is one of the best. Minolta's Flash Meter IV is great, too, but most were used professionally and many of them are beat up badly and overpriced.
Measuring the incident light is always a compromise that is unnecessary if you fully understand incident light metering.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

macfred · Jan 22, 2018

David Allen said:
... Measuring the incident light is always a compromise that is unnecessary if you fully understand incident light metering.

David, I guess there is something wrong with your last statement ... ?

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 22, 2018

David Allen said:
If you're shooting slide film, a good incident meter is better. Minolta Autometer IVF can be bought for $120, and is one of the best. Minolta's Flash Meter IV is great, too, but most were used professionally and many of them are beat up badly and overpriced

I am gobsmacked that any person with a modicum of experience shooting transparency film would make such a statement.

Born2Late · Jan 22, 2018

I have a number of meters ranging from new to ancient. Accuracy of used meters seems to be the luck of the draw. I would recommend that if you purchase a used meter that you send it to Quality Light-Metric. They are great to work with. They don't charge to evaluate your meter. If it is off and repairable they provide a quote, if not they will return your meter for just the shipping cost.
I've had great luck with them.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jan 22, 2018

Poisson Du Jour said:
I am gobsmacked that any person with a modicum of experience shooting transparency film would make such a statement.

Been doing it for 30 years, and my work has supported me financially most of my adult life. I see nothing wrong with my statement.

John Koehrer · Jan 22, 2018

In spite of the fact that some people have had "100's" of meters pass through their hands, I haven't.
But I've also never bought a new light meter. It's only been about 50 years so the phrase "YMMV"
may be appropriate.
Currently I'm using a Luna Pro F(or is it SBC? uses a 9V) and a Spectra. They're old, I should just toss 'em.

Never had a Master V or Vl (plastic version) that wasn't accurate enough for slides.
The spotmeter argument is sorta kinda valid But you've been shooting film for a year and don't really need to go that route.
The Luna Pro's are a bit larger than a pack of cigarettes and Something like The Sekonic 308s is smaller than the Pro and the digi 6 is tiny.

I think you may find a difference of opinion or two out there.

chriscrawfordphoto · Jan 22, 2018

John Koehrer said:
In spite of the fact that some people have had "100's" of meters pass through their hands, I haven't.
But I've also never bought a new light meter. It's only been about 50 years so the phrase "YMMV"
may be appropriate.
Currently I'm using a Luna Pro F(or is it SBC? uses a 9V) and a Spectra. They're old, I should just toss 'em.

Never had a Master V or Vl (plastic version) that wasn't accurate enough for slides.
The spotmeter argument is sorta kinda valid But you've been shooting film for a year and don't really need to go that route.
The Luna Pro's are a bit larger than a pack of cigarettes and Something like The Sekonic 308s is smaller than the Pro and the digi 6 is tiny.

I think you may find a difference of opinion or two out there.

As a teacher, I do not think it a good idea to recommend to students equipment that is likely to be unreliable. I never said you had to buy a new meter, but old selenium cell meters are often dead. Sekonics are usually ok but Westons, especially the Master IV and Master V, are almost always dead.

I know some of you guys like to beat your chests about how you use old junk that 'works just fine' but for those of us making a living at this, that just doesn't cut it. I feel a moral obligation to those who ask for advice to recommend gear that is unlikely to frustrate them. I know from my experiences teaching high school that kids often blame themselves and get discouraged when their photos don't come out, even though many were using old crappy cameras that someone dug out of a closet. That's true, I am sure, for adults as well.

So, I am going to continue to give people advice to use gear that will 'just work' without issues while they are learning. Anything else would be unethical. I'm retired now, after a stroke, but I am still a teacher at heart.

Sirius Glass · Jan 23, 2018

Poisson Du Jour said:
I am gobsmacked that any person with a modicum of experience shooting transparency film would make such a statement.

I have agree that using an incident meter would eliminate the problem of getting the exposure "spot on" for slides. I think it is an elegant solution that I never tried.

David Allen · Jan 23, 2018

macfred said:
David, I guess there is something wrong with your last statement ... ?

Doh - having one of my Homer Simpson moments!

What I meant to write was that measuring the incident light is always a compromise that is unnecessary if you fully understand reflected light metering especially because many scenes will not allow you to measure the incident light.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

baachitraka · Jan 23, 2018

Incident metering gives the amount of light falling on the subject but need some technical adjustments to get it right.

Technical: Incident measurement in the shadow and transfer that to exposure may give an over-exposure. (Why because of this crazy 5-stop theory that incident dome suppose to simulate).
Similarly measured directly under the sun may underexpose the highlights.
So it needs a stop of adjustment.
Simulated shadows: Standing under the sun and want to know the shadow illumination, then simulate the shadows with a hat or palm (adjustments need to be applied).

In any case it always give a nice reference value.

John Koehrer · Jan 23, 2018

chriscrawfordphoto said:
As a teacher, I do not think it a good idea to recommend to students equipment that is likely to be unreliable. I never said you had to buy a new meter, but old selenium cell meters are often dead. Sekonics are usually ok but Westons, especially the Master IV and Master V, are almost always dead.

I know some of you guys like to beat your chests about how you use old junk that 'works just fine' but for those of us making a living at this, that just doesn't cut it. I feel a moral obligation to those who ask for advice to recommend gear that is unlikely to frustrate them. I know from my experiences teaching high school that kids often blame themselves and get discouraged when their photos don't come out, even though many were using old crappy cameras that someone dug out of a closet. That's true, I am sure, for adults as well.

So, I am going to continue to give people advice to use gear that will 'just work' without issues while they are learning. Anything else would be unethical. I'm retired now, after a stroke, but I am still a teacher at heart.

Talk about beating your chest. I guess when you think you're right, you're always right.

wiltw · Jan 23, 2018

Funny how 'landscape' is a very broad term used so loosely, but which really means different things to different folks at different times. Yet we tend to universalize the applicability of different tools, which are effective AND ineffective at different times!

I just shot this 'landscape' at 5:15pm to illustrate that point. The first two are exposed 'per incident light meter' while the last two are exposed 'per 1 degree spot meter'.
They are not meant to be very scenic, as I realize that anything posted to the web is exposing it to risk of theft. (Steal me, please)

1. If my goal was to capture the scenery and not the sky, the incident light meter, in the same light as the scene and aimed upward to the sky (parallel to the ground, works fine as the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/30 f/6.5)
2. If my goal was to capture the scenery as it is illuminated (back lit) but at its inherent brightness, the incident light meter aimed at the lens is OK as the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/30 f/4)
3. If my goal is to capture the colors of the setting sun sky, the one degree spotmeter aimed at the sky is the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/4000 f/5.6)
4. Or if my goal was to capture the scenery as it is illuminated (back lit) but at its inherent brightness, the spotmeter aimed at the trees is OK as the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/30 f/5.6)

So which meter is 'best for landscape'?! Which technique of meter use is 'best for landscape'?!
Answer: IT DEPENDS! What is the vision of the photographer for the photo? What is the purpose of the photo? Where should the attention of the viewer be drawn in the photo?

Bill Burk · Jan 23, 2018

I can see where Chris Crawford is coming from.

If I were to refurbish and sell Weston Master III meters, with Zone Stickers applied, calibrated, warranted and ready to use... Then I would say get one of my meters. Because those would be good meters to have. And I might just do that this summer for a little fun.

True they don't do well in low light. They don't do spot metering. And they don't all come with the "Invercone" which makes it an incident meter.

But mine work just fine with cells that operate at what seems to me to be full original strength. It might be the difference between how they were acquired. I can imagine the poor condition of odd lots boxes of camera ephemera that a school might run across, contrasted with the way I got mine, some from a camera store on consignment and some from eBay where I look at condition carefully before deciding on a purchase. And when I get them I open them up, clean them, tighten electrical connections, put them back together.

Fin · Jan 23, 2018

So... Back to recommendations for cost effective light meters, big fat +1 for either a Gossen Profisix / Luna-Pro sbc, or Gossen Lunasix F / Luna-Pro F. The Lunasix F has flash metering but apparently less sensitivity (according to teh internets) compared to the Profisix.

That may be so, but I'm totally happy with my Lunasix F. It's a very fast easy to use meter, and has proved very accurate so far with a big variety of differently lit scenes. As others have said, it takes a standard 9v battery (with built in test function) and it also has a built in incident reading cover that slides over the cell window. The additional spot metering attachment is pretty good and you can also get a darkroom enlarger meter attachment for them as well as a few other bits, from memory.

Mine cost £34 for the meter and £16 for the spot attachment.

R.Gould · Jan 24, 2018

I get what Chris Crawford is saying, but get a late model Euromaster 2 then it should be fine, they were still being made up to around 10/15 years ago by Megatron here in the UK, I would not suggest a 3 as a reliable meter, I don't think anyone would, even Ian Partridge, who refurbs them, sell only 4,5 and euromaster's as usable meters, I have a Master 4,5, and 2 euromasters's, one is a Sangamo weston made one and the second is a East Kilbride euromaster, not called a weston as they did not have the rights to the name, but a Weston in all but name, and I also have a Sekonic for studio work, and my weston's measured against the Sekonic they are spot on For 20 years I made my living from Photography, and I used Westons for all that time, Master 4.5 and euromaster and they all proved fine, never seen one of the above models going Dead, I bought new meters when I damged one, such as dropping onto concrete floor or not using a lanyard and somehow dropping one into the sea, but they have all proved fine meters, in fact for all of my Photographic life, which has been 60 years, I used westons and I have recently seem both a 2 and 3 working accurately,

baachitraka · Jan 24, 2018

wiltw said:
Funny how 'landscape' is a very broad term used so loosely, but which really means different things to different folks at different times. Yet we tend to universalize the applicability of different tools, which are effective AND ineffective at different times!

I just shot this 'landscape' at 5:15pm to illustrate that point. The first two are exposed 'per incident light meter' while the last two are exposed 'per 1 degree spot meter'.
They are not meant to be very scenic, as I realize that anything posted to the web is exposing it to risk of theft. (Steal me, please)

1. If my goal was to capture the scenery and not the sky, the incident light meter, in the same light as the scene and aimed upward to the sky (parallel to the ground, works fine as the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/30 f/6.5)
2. If my goal was to capture the scenery as it is illuminated (back lit) but at its inherent brightness, the incident light meter aimed at the lens is OK as the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/30 f/4)
3. If my goal is to capture the colors of the setting sun sky, the one degree spotmeter aimed at the sky is the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/4000 f/5.6)
4. Or if my goal was to capture the scenery as it is illuminated (back lit) but at its inherent brightness, the spotmeter aimed at the trees is OK as the right way to meter my 'landscape' (1/30 f/5.6)

So which meter is 'best for landscape'?! Which technique of meter use is 'best for landscape'?!
Answer: IT DEPENDS! What is the vision of the photographer for the photo? What is the purpose of the photo? Where should the attention of the viewer be drawn in the photo?

For the first point, if the meter is aimed upwards, will it not give the value of light falling on the meter rather anything else. I do not understand this technique and how it is useful to measure the scene illumination when the lens is pointed towards the scene.

Second point is spot on. It just does what is expected. OVER-EXPOSURE.

guangong · Jan 24, 2018

If limited to landscape, I use a Sekonic incident selenium meter. They are available new. Got one from a dealer in Hong Kong. For general photography In descending size, I use Luna Pro, Ranger9, DigiSix and iPhone, depending on how light I want to travel. Oh, to be really light, a cardboard exposure calculator. Of course, whatever your choice, the computer in your head is a necessary accessory.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 24, 2018

A reflected spot / incident meter will be the most useful, but how well it works for you depends on your skill, now the answers the meter will give you.
I am not a fan of ancient analogue meters being trotted out as the panacea for any style of photography, and certainly would not recommend these be relied on given their age.
Sekonic and Gossen spot meters are not and never have been cheap, with Kenko and Minolta meters also a good buy, but you will need nothing else to handle just about every scene presenting, including but not limited to, those with vast differences in contrast and light intensity, especially critical when your work involves exposing slide film along a known precise matrice with little room for error, unlike negative film.

BMbikerider · Jan 24, 2018

Any light meter that has the facility to use an incident light attachment will more than suffice. I have used a selection in the 50 plus years I have been practicing the art. My favourite still has to be my Weston Master V, the only one I own now. Yes it is old, but after a thorough service twice in its life it is still as accurate as I could wish. Yes, agreed it isn't as sensitive as modern meters, but only very rarely do I go out to take photograph at night. Furthermore, they do not rely upon batteries, or have a 'memory' like CDS metering systems.

macfred · Jan 24, 2018

No matter which exposure meter (old Weston, Gossen or modern Sekonic, spot atachment or not) or technique (incident,reflective or spot metering) is used - the most important tool remains experience and understanding.
Experience and knowledge required, one can determine a correct exposure for almost every light situation, no matter what kind of -accurate- meter is in use. The best gear is useless if one lacks the expertise.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 28, 2018

I have a Minolta IIIF light meter with a 10% spot for reflective and incident dome. How could I check it's calibration? There's a potentiometer screw inside the battery case that appears to be adjustable. Note that I have a Sony RX100-IV 1" sensor digital camera with spot, center and matrix metering. How would I check the Minolta light meter against the camera? I also have a gray card and an old Sekonic reflective L-158 selenium light meter if those would help.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 28, 2018

I also have a Samsung S7 cellphone to use.

John Koehrer · Jan 28, 2018

A lot of people consider a blue sky to be 18% ish. So, pick a spot, any spot & meter. Keep in mind there may(probably will) be a difference.
1/2 stop or so would be no surprise.

Bill Burk · Jan 28, 2018

Alan Edward Klein said:
I have a Minolta IIIF light meter with a 10% spot for reflective and incident dome. How could I check it's calibration? There's a potentiometer screw inside the battery case that appears to be adjustable. Note that I have a Sony RX100-IV 1" sensor digital camera with spot, center and matrix metering. How would I check the Minolta light meter against the camera? I also have a gray card and an old Sekonic reflective L-158 selenium light meter if those would help.

Do you have any old reliable camera with built in meter? Take a screen (opal glass) and a tungsten source filtered with an 80B blue filter. Photograph one roll of black and white film ... some shots in an auto exposure mode... then meter and set the camera exactly as the meter indicates. If you have some 0.1 ND filters you can get to the nearest 1/3 stop. Take some shots at that setting. Then open two stops and shoot a couple shots. These three frames will tell whether your meter is calibrated, with a little density reading and math.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 29, 2018

Bill. Thanks for the tip. But the only camera I have are old Nikormat FT3 and Nikon N6006 and I don't know if the meters even work or are accurate. Shouldn't I be able to use my digital 1" camera? I can see if I'm getting the results on it that I want. Then use as well as the histogram. I would shoot "normal" daylight sunny and also shade and overcast shoots as well. Shouldn't I be able to calibrate the Minolta light meter to these sample shots? The only variable might be that digital cameras meter for the highlights I would think like positive slide film. I use both slide film (Velvia 50) and also BW negative film (Tmax 100) where you expose for the shadows. So would comparing to a digital be a good way of calibrating? Also, should I consider what I shoot when I calibrate the light meter - negative vs. positive film?

Light meter for landscape photography

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