Light Meter advice needed.

KerrKid · Dec 16, 2022

Wow. Lot's of good info to digest. I do not understand how you can use a digital camera for a light meter, though. That's confusing me. Seeing how I only have a Nikon D200 I know I won't be lugging that around as a light meter, though.

I've seen those Voigtlander VC II's. Real nice and real expensive. One sure would look good on my Konica Auto S2's.

Dunno. I'll have to think on this. It'll come down to what I can find that offers the best value. Hopefully, A Digisix for $50

I'm using the myLightMeter app on my iPhone XR. I have no idea how the two pair up. I'm obviously going to have to get some film shot and developed to see.

MattKing · Dec 16, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Then how can you depend on it? How much off is the non-linearity?

Depends on your phone and the app. Particularly for chromes, I would certainly check it carefully at a wide variety of light levels against a meter you know gives you good results.
When you are checking, you can also experiment with determining what the acceptance angle of the phone as meter is. That is another area where you can be surprised. Your hand-held meter might have a 30 degree acceptance angle, your in-camera meter may have a selection of acceptance angle choices, depending on lenses, and your phone + app may use an acceptance angle that is something "normal" (for metering) or something quite unusual.

KerrKid · Dec 16, 2022

Sharktooth said:
It's kinda silly to get all hyped up about light meters when the OP is using 50 to 60 year old cameras. The shutter speeds are very likely to be all over the place, and will certainly be more of a concern than a decent light meter.

I appreciate that you've brought the issue of shutter speed up, because I've mostly discounted it or not focused on it. I've been too busy getting the cameras repaired and have only put one roll of film through one of the am 551's. That roll hasn't been developed, yet. I haven't used the two Konica C35 Automatics, The Ricoh 500G, or the Ricoh 35ZF, either. Those cameras have functioning light meters, but I have no idea if they're accurate or if they also have shutter issues. Like you pointed out, these are 50-60 yo cameras.

KerrKid · Dec 16, 2022

MattKing said:
Depends on your phone and the app. Particularly for chromes, I would certainly check it carefully at a wide variety of light levels against a meter you know gives you good results.
When you are checking, you can also experiment with determining what the acceptance angle of the phone as meter is. That is another area where you can be surprised. Your hand-held meter might have a 30 degree acceptance angle, your in-camera meter may have a selection of acceptance angle choices, depending on lenses, and your phone + app may use an acceptance angle that is something "normal" (for metering) or something quite unusual.

When you say "Acceptance Angle" is this the area that the light meter reads the light? From a single point at the camera radiating out into a pie-shaped coverage area? How and why would it matter for that area to differ by 5 or 10 degrees or less?

xkaes · Dec 16, 2022

KerrKid said:
Like you pointed out, these are 50-60 yo cameras.

I've got lots of 60 year old cameras that work fine. Don't be deterred by people who "would never buy a camera more than 10 years old" because "it likely has a problem". The S2 is one of my favorite cameras -- with a superb lens. Sure, it's important -- and easy -- to test a camera out. You can do it with one roll of film.

madNbad · Dec 16, 2022

KerrKid said:
When you say "Acceptance Angle" is this the area that the light meter reads the light? From a single point at the camera radiating out into a pie-shaped coverage area? How and why would it matter for that area to differ by 5 or 10 degrees or less?

The angle of acceptance for the Digisix is 25 degrees. The Reveni cube uses a sensor which is much like the average cell phone is 45 degrees, capturing light from a much broader area and possibly affecting the reflective reading.

KerrKid · Dec 16, 2022

xkaes said:
I've got lots of 60 year old cameras that work fine. Don't be deterred by people who "would never buy a camera more than 10 years old" because "it likely has a problem". The S2 is one of my favorite cameras -- with a superb lens. Sure, it's important -- and easy -- to test a camera out. You can do it with one roll of film.

Glad to hear the S2 is one of your favorites. I'm especially interested in getting my Wards ep 504 working. It is supposed to have an especially good lens on it. The same as the later S3. Yes, one roll of film through them will tell me a lot and is less expensive than sending them off to a repair shop.

KerrKid · Dec 16, 2022

madNbad said:
The angle of acceptance for the Digisix is 25 degrees. The Reveni cube uses a sensor which is much like the average cell phone is 45 degrees, capturing light from a much broader area and possibly affecting the reflective reading.

That makes sense. I would think that an angle of acceptance of 25 degrees would be better than 45. If a wider measurement was warranted, couldn't you just take several side-by-side measurements at 25 degrees each and average the results out?

I remember when I was shooting film with Noah that I used walk up and take a close reading with my light meter of the primary subject matter I was going to shoot. Like a gravestone in a cemetery. I'm not sure if I knew what I was doing, but I don't think it hurt anything to do it that way when I could.

xkaes · Dec 16, 2022

Whatever you meter with a reflectance meter -- 1, 10, or 100 degrees -- produces an exposure that will result in a mid-tone image. If your scene/subject is brighter or darker than a mid-tone, it will produce a result that is not the same tone as the scene/subject. A bright scene will be a mid-tone; a dark scene will be a mid-tone. If you like grey snow, use a reflectance meter.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 16, 2022

KerrKid said:
I need some advice on light meters.

I have the myLightMeter app for my iPhone but don’t know if that’s any good. I’ve used it with my Wards am 551 and the other day with my SRT 101 when its battery died on me. Haven’t developed any film from those cameras, yet, so I don’t know how accurate the app was.

I have 4 Konica Auto S2’s with dead meters so having a good quality light meter
is important now.

What should I get if the iPhone app isn’t that good?

use. Few people will hve a complete market overview. You're probably stuck with picking a name-brand meter within your budget and trying it out. best of luck

MattKing · Dec 16, 2022

KerrKid said:
That makes sense. I would think that an angle of acceptance of 25 degrees would be better than 45. If a wider measurement was warranted, couldn't you just take several side-by-side measurements at 25 degrees each and average the results out?

Whatever the angle of acceptance is, it is important to know it, so that you can determine whether you are taking the reading from the right part(s) of the scene.
Having too narrow an angle of acceptance increases the likelihood that you are taking a reading from a portion of the scene, rather than all the scene. Many people are likely to hotshoe mount a meter like the Reveni, in which case a reading that tends to average the whole scene might be preferable.
In any event, it is important to know, and to take that knowledge into account.

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2022

MattKing said:
Whatever the angle of acceptance is, it is important to know it, so that you can determine whether you are taking the reading from the right part(s) of the scene.
Having too narrow an angle of acceptance increases the likelihood that you are taking a reading from a portion of the scene, rather than all the scene. Many people are likely to hotshoe mount a meter like the Reveni, in which case a reading that tends to average the whole scene might be preferable.
In any event, it is important to know, and to take that knowledge into account.

In fewer words do not meter with the sky in the meter's field of view.

gone · Dec 16, 2022

Here's an idea. Buy yourself a Nikon n8008s or a n90s camera w/ some kind of lens on it. Don't spend a lot on it, just make sure it works properly. They're cheap, take AA batteries, and the n8008s is better for eyeglass wearers. Both have several types of metering and an AE Lock button that you can quickly slide over w/ your thumb to lock the exposure. They also have super accurate shutters and meters.

Put the camera on "spot", which is a real spot meter. Then holding the shutter release down just enough to activate the light meter (it will hold it for about 10 seconds), point the camera around a little bit to different areas of your shot. You will quickly see how sensitive a spot meter is, and how varied the light is within the frame of the shot.

Where do you want to lock the exposure at? You could just let the camera do it for you, it's an auto exposure camera. This is done by selecting the center weighted mode in the beginning, which gives precedence to the center area, which is where your subject usually is at. Or you could lock it where you wish the main exposure to be. For example, if one side has a lot of light, you might want to lock it on your subject if they're in the center. If they're on the other side, maybe lock it on that area to get them properly exposed. This will teach you everything you need to know about metering many types of lighting situations.

If you want to use a handheld meter w/ your older cameras, you will lose a lot of time getting readings, looking down at it, and pointing it here and there, and only then making your exposure. It can be done quickly if the light is the same shot after shot, but it can be cumbersome in tricky light. Make sure your cameras have accurate shutters though, or else everything will be off..

xkaes · Dec 16, 2022

Or save yourself all the time, trouble and cost, and get an incident meter.

KerrKid · Dec 17, 2022

momus said:
Here's an idea. Buy yourself a Nikon n8008s or a n90s camera w/ some kind of lens on it. Don't spend a lot on it, just make sure it works properly. They're cheap, take AA batteries, and the n8008s is better for eyeglass wearers. Both have several types of metering and an AE Lock button that you can quickly slide over w/ your thumb to lock the exposure. They also have super accurate shutters and meters.

Put the camera on "spot", which is a real spot meter. Then holding the shutter release down just enough to activate the light meter (it will hold it for about 10 seconds), point the camera around a little bit to different areas of your shot. You will quickly see how sensitive a spot meter is, and how varied the light is within the frame of the shot.

Where do you want to lock the exposure at? You could just let the camera do it for you, it's an auto exposure camera. This is done by selecting the center weighted mode in the beginning, which gives precedence to the center area, which is where your subject usually is at. Or you could lock it where you wish the main exposure to be. For example, if one side has a lot of light, you might want to lock it on your subject if they're in the center. If they're on the other side, maybe lock it on that area to get them properly exposed. This will teach you everything you need to know about metering many types of lighting situations.

If you want to use a handheld meter w/ your older cameras, you will lose a lot of time getting readings, looking down at it, and pointing it here and there, and only then making your exposure. It can be done quickly if the light is the same shot after shot, but it can be cumbersome in tricky light. Make sure your cameras have accurate shutters though, or else everything will be off..

I’ll use one of my N75’s for this.

Yeh, there’s nothing fast about using a rangefinder with a handheld meter, but that’s also the appeal.

I’d really like to get so familiar with my S2’s and different lighting situations that I didn’t need a meter at all.

KerrKid · Dec 17, 2022

xkaes said:
Or save yourself all the time, trouble and cost, and get an incident meter.

There’s a Vivitar 45 Incident light meter that’s been refurbed and recalibrated for 1.5v batteries that I’m thinking of buying. I can’t find much info on it but the seller never sells junk and it’s under $30.

MattKing · Dec 17, 2022

KerrKid said:
There’s a Vivitar 45 Incident light meter that’s been refurbed and recalibrated for 1.5v batteries that I’m thinking of buying. I can’t find much info on it but the seller never sells junk and it’s under $30.

I had and used one of those - when I was in my 20s!
I won't reveal how much older I am now, except to say that you might choose to express the number of years in Roman numerals
If it is working well, it is certainly serviceable.
But I'd suggest something a few decades younger.

albada · Dec 17, 2022

B&H sells the Sekonic L-208 Twin Mate for $129 here . It measures both incident and reflected, and has positive feedback. It measures down to EV 3, so it'll work indoors. It uses a common lithium button cell. @guangong, is this the same Twin Mate model you referred to in posting #5? Can you tell us more about it?

Mark

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
In fewer words do not meter with the sky in the meter's field of view.

If you're shooting chromes, you could blow out the sky. Check the sky also and if too many stops difference, you may have to add a GND filter.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2022

momus said:
Here's an idea. Buy yourself a Nikon n8008s or a n90s camera w/ some kind of lens on it. Don't spend a lot on it, just make sure it works properly. They're cheap, take AA batteries, and the n8008s is better for eyeglass wearers. Both have several types of metering and an AE Lock button that you can quickly slide over w/ your thumb to lock the exposure. They also have super accurate shutters and meters.

Put the camera on "spot", which is a real spot meter. Then holding the shutter release down just enough to activate the light meter (it will hold it for about 10 seconds), point the camera around a little bit to different areas of your shot. You will quickly see how sensitive a spot meter is, and how varied the light is within the frame of the shot.

Where do you want to lock the exposure at? You could just let the camera do it for you, it's an auto exposure camera. This is done by selecting the center weighted mode in the beginning, which gives precedence to the center area, which is where your subject usually is at. Or you could lock it where you wish the main exposure to be. For example, if one side has a lot of light, you might want to lock it on your subject if they're in the center. If they're on the other side, maybe lock it on that area to get them properly exposed. This will teach you everything you need to know about metering many types of lighting situations.

If you want to use a handheld meter w/ your older cameras, you will lose a lot of time getting readings, looking down at it, and pointing it here and there, and only then making your exposure. It can be done quickly if the light is the same shot after shot, but it can be cumbersome in tricky light. Make sure your cameras have accurate shutters though, or else everything will be off..

I've been experimenting and using my Olympus E-PL1 micro 4/3 digital camera as a meter because it's small and I don't have a DSLR. I set on Aperture priority mode on f/22 which is a good starting point for me when shooting large format film. The lens should handle the aperture your film camera will nominally shoot at. If you use a P&S camera, the apertures usually don't go above f9. Use your blinkies and histogram to see if you're clipping anywhere. If I zoom in to telephoto (84mm equivalent), and switch to spot metering, I can read down to just under 3 degrees. The Olympus micro 4/3 lens in 14-42 (28-84mm equivalent)

Chan Tran · Dec 17, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
I've been experimenting and using my Olympus E-PL1 micro 4/3 digital camera as a meter because it's small and I don't have a DSLR. I set on Aperture priority mode on f/22 which is a good starting point for me when shooting large format film. The lens should handle the aperture your film camera will nominally shoot at. If you use a P&S camera, the apertures usually don't go above f9. Use your blinkies and histogram to see if you're clipping anywhere. If I zoom in to telephoto (84mm equivalent), and switch to spot metering, I can read down to just under 3 degrees. The Olympus micro 4/3 lens in 14-42 (28-84mm equivalent)

If you shoot negative film you should not worry too much about the blnkies but rather too dark shadow is more of a problem with negative film. When the digital camera got the blinkies you lost all details there but not so with negative film.

xkaes · Dec 17, 2022

KerrKid said:
There’s a Vivitar 45 Incident light meter that’s been refurbed and recalibrated for 1.5v batteries that I’m thinking of buying. I can’t find much info on it but the seller never sells junk and it’s under $30.

The Vivitar 45 is pretty much a clone of the Gossen Super Pilot -- which I use -- BOTH small, light, capable meters for INCIDENT and REFLECTED light. The 45 is Cds-based with ISO 6-25,000, f-ftops 1 - 64, speeds 1/8000 - two hours, EVs -3 to +25. There are several on EBAY right now starting at $15 -- a great deal.

And don't worry about the age of the meter. My favorite is the Minolta AutoMeter II -- as old as my Super Pilot -- built 50 years ago and as good as new.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 17, 2022

Chan Tran said:
If you shoot negative film you should not worry too much about the blnkies but rather too dark shadow is more of a problem with negative film. When the digital camera got the blinkies you lost all details there but not so with negative film.

The camera has blinkies for dark as well as highlights. So depending on the film you're using, each end can be flagged if you're clipping. With the Olympus, clipping highlights are shown in red, and clipping shadow areas in blue. Even if there's no clipping, what I do is give a little more exposure to negative film and little less to chromes, maybe 1/2 stop. But that may not be necessary. I'm still experimenting.

Frankly, with all the latest technology, I don't understand why light meter manufacturers like Sekonix don't include histograms and clipping alerts in their meters. It's a no-brainer. Even the cheapest P&S cameras have these features.

Paul Howell · Dec 17, 2022

One thing to think about is digital vs. older analog with an at a glance meter dial. I was tempted to get a Minolta digital meter, but decided I wanted to see the dial at a glance.

GregY · Dec 17, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
The camera has blinkies for dark as well as highlights. So depending on the film you're using, each end can be flagged if you're clipping. With the Olympus, clipping highlights are shown in red, and clipping shadow areas in blue. Even if there's no clipping, what I do is give a little more exposure to negative film and little less to chromes, maybe 1/2 stop. But that may not be necessary. I'm still experimenting.

Frankly, with all the latest technology, I don't understand why light meter manufacturers like Sekonix don't include histograms and clipping alerts in their meters. It's a no-brainer. Even the cheapest P&S cameras have these features.

Alan, Why complicate things? A light meter of any kind is a relatively simple device, designed for a particular task. Any of them do it more than adequately. Among others, i have the tiny digisix.....& would have much preferred an on/off switch to the time, clock, temperature, alarm functions. I'm skeptical enough about the concept of owning a digital camera to take a light reading for an analog photograph.

Light Meter advice needed.

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Light Meter advice needed.

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