Light leaks - through front?

In my canon AE-1 Program. I just had light seals fixed, but am still getting leaks. The strange ones are the white bands. what could be causing this? They are mostly on the edges of the frame when they appear. Is it a shutter issue? I didn't see any light shining a light in through the front with a lens off. Thanks!

Second and third pic looks to me like light-piping entering the felt seal of the canister while loading or unloading in very bright sunlight, or an incompletely closing back cover of the camera. This is speculative — showing the entire negative (sprocket holes included) may yield more insight.

Taylor K Nankervis said:

Second and third pic looks to me like light-piping entering the felt seal of the canister while loading or unloading in very bright sunlight, or an incompletely closing back cover of the camera. This is speculative — showing the entire negative (sprocket holes included) may yield more insight.

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This is the second roll I have used, one other before the seals changed. It had the same issues, but the red leaks were a bit more prominent
I'll see if i can figure out a way to show the film strip for this roll.

If you are seeing this through the entire roll very well could be shutter. Hard to say without seeing the negatives (and the camera). As Taylor pointed out could be the cassette, or it could be improper replacement of the light sealing felts. Used to be exact die cut seals came from the EU, now it's coming from elsewhere.

Quick check try removing the lens and opening the shutter and shining a LED flashlight around the camera back. A horrible light leak might be visible, or maybe not.

If you see this in the middle of the roll I would suspect that it is the camera not the cassette.

mshchem said:

If you are seeing this through the entire roll very well could be shutter. Hard to say without seeing the negatives (and the camera). As Taylor pointed out could be the cassette, or it could be improper replacement of the light sealing felts. Used to be exact die cut seals came from the EU, now it's coming from elsewhere.

Quick check try removing the lens and opening the shutter and shining a LED flashlight around the camera back. A horrible light leak might be visible, or maybe not.

If you see this in the middle of the roll I would suspect that it is the camera not the cassette.

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It is a lot of frames through out the roll, not every frame but many. I find it unlikely to be the cassette, as it has happened on the two rolls that went through this camera about 3 months apart.
I won't rule out improper replacement, I had a friend do it. He has done it before on other cameras, so I thought he knew what he was doing. I just have never seen the white leaks before.

I'll try opening the shutter, but I am not sure what to look for. I shined a light with the shutter closed and there was no light coming in. I am wondering if the shutter is sticking open a tad?

Thanks

I do find this frame interesting. It is the only like it on the roll, with the white swish on the red. Not sure if it helps.

You should show the entire negative including the rebate area.

Generally, white leaks is light hitting the emulsion side; orange leaks are going through the film base.

If the camera back is leaking a bit each frame could be a bit different depending on the ambient light, how quickly you advanced the film etc. Kinda like a pinhole camera. One thing, if you have film to burn, try going into a dark closet, advance the film 4 or 5 blank shots, then take the camera out in the sun, don't shoot or advance the film, go back into the dark, rewind the film and have it processed. If it is the light seals you should see it in the middle of the film. Not the very beginning or the end. Use a normal negative film, not Cinestill, just plain old inexpensive Fuji or Kodak.

OAPOli said:

You should show the entire negative including the rebate area.

Generally, white leaks is light hitting the emulsion side; orange leaks are going through the film base.

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Good point, red scale

Taylor K Nankervis said:

Second and third pic looks to me like light-piping entering the felt seal of the canister while loading or unloading in very bright sunlight, or an incompletely closing back cover of the camera.

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The latter; it's not the cassette I think because you generally see the erratic shape of the felt trap on any edges, while the edges shown here are pretty firm.

OAPOli said:

Generally, white leaks is light hitting the emulsion side; orange leaks are going through the film base.

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Precisely, so we know this is a light leak from the back of the film and in virtually all cases these are associated with light leaks around the camera back. So deteriorated seals, seams not closing up etc.

pamphoto said:

I do find this frame interesting. It is the only like it on the roll, with the white swish on the red.

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That's an interesting one; my guess is that this is a leak at the back of the camera and the white swish is an internal reflection inside the camera body, with a bit of light hitting the front of the film as a result. The primary leak would be outside the image frame and might be quite significant, causing a large vertical band of fog along the back of the film, possibly in part due to light piping in the film base.

OAPOli said:

You should show the entire negative including the rebate area.

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Absolutely.

mshchem said:

If the camera back is leaking a bit each frame could be a bit different depending on the ambient light, how quickly you advanced the film etc.

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Yeah, for sure; that's why you virtually always see somewhat erratic patterns in cases like these, but if you study them closely, they end up showing an actual pattern alright. One thing to look out for is whether the leaks always line up in the same way with the frame, or whether they appear at different offsets from the frame edge. In the latter case, the leak is near the take-up spool of the camera. In the former case (line-up with frame), the leak is somewhere around the film gate. Insofar as I can tell right now from the pictures it's the latter.

Based on the verticality of the leaks it looks to me like they're reflecting off that shiny bar on the film back. I'd pay special attention near the hinge and make sure you have foam beside the hinge.

A couple things I'd add, as I was chasing similar light leaks on my Olympus XA last year — I saw light leaks much like these, and my first attempt at replacing the foam did nothing because I bought very cheap "light seal foam" from amazon (it did basically nothing to stop light getting in, and I quickly learned my lesson). Once I bought some more proper foam I no longer had issues. If the new foam on the camera looks very soft or flimsy, that might be the cause.

Also, unlike my XA, the AE-1 take-up spool winds the film with emulsion-side out, so if there are light leaks by the hinge, those would in fact show up white. Though, as Koraks said, light leaks by the take-up spool won't always be in the same place relative to the frame (they will, however, run to the edge of the film and not stop at the edge of the frame)

usually red light leaks indicate a leak behind the film plane (door, foam seals on the back of the camera) where as white/overexposed spots typically indicate a light leak in the bellows or a leak through a shutter curtain! these look like door leaks to me.

sonora said:

A couple things I'd add, as I was chasing similar light leaks on my Olympus XA last year — I saw light leaks much like these, and my first attempt at replacing the foam did nothing because I bought very cheap "light seal foam" from amazon (it did basically nothing to stop light getting in, and I quickly learned my lesson). Once I bought some more proper foam I no longer had issues. If the new foam on the camera looks very soft or flimsy, that might be the cause.

Also, unlike my XA, the AE-1 take-up spool winds the film with emulsion-side out, so if there are light leaks by the hinge, those would in fact show up white. Though, as Koraks said, light leaks by the take-up spool won't always be in the same place relative to the frame (they will, however, run to the edge of the film and not stop at the edge of the frame)

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didn't think about the take up spool winding emulsion side out! interesting insight ill keep in mind when looking for leaks!

To save too much guesswork start by guessing you have a light leak from the film door. Put a new film in the camera wind to #1 and tape the back of the door shut, along the top, the bottom and the ends. Shoot a few shots and take the tape off the bottom, wave the camera around in the light and take a few more shots, then re-tape the bottom and take the tape off the top, then repeat for all the edges. Remembering the order you removed and then reapplied the tape you should be able to see where the leak, or leaks, is coming from.