light defect on picture - what causes it?

Karamela · Jun 19, 2014

Dear photographers,

I am a newbie here, so pardon me please if I am in a wrong section of this forum, newertheles, I am confused by a light effect that started to appear on my photos and since I am an complete amateur in analog photography, I decided to ask you, wise photographers.

There are a light triangle edges on every picture, somewhere even multiplied. I thought it's something with shutter, but since the camera - Smena 8M - has leaf shutter, I don't see how this could happen. So my second thought - a cranny/crack somewere in the back of the camera (near hinges)?
I am grateful for any opinions.

Sirius Glass · Jun 19, 2014

It looks like the camera has a light leak. The seal need to be replaced. What kind of camera is it? Once we know that we can refer you to a repair person or where you can get new light seals.

Welcome to APUG

darkosaric · Jun 19, 2014

Hi Karamela,

welcome to APUG .

Either crack and light leaks in camera - or light leaks during loading in developer machine. Film was developed in some local lab?
Try to inspect the camera and see do you see any damage or cracks? Which film was it (Kodak, Fuji, old or new film...)?

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 19, 2014

Hi Karamela. Welcome to APUG.

I'm thinking that, as you say, perhaps a light leak near the supply-side of the film path. A leak where an obstruction inside the camera is partially shadowing the leak (creating that hard-edge on the bottom).

In the left photo the camera may have been unused for a long enough period to allow the light to penetrate several layers of the unused portion of the roll. Each successive layer showing as a less dense, but identically shaped, defect.

In the right photo perhaps the frames were made in more rapid succession, such that the light fell on the unused portion only long enough to mark the topmost layer before it was moved away by winding. That layer being the one about to be rolled into the film gate for the next photo.

Just some guessing here. I could be wrong...

I'm sure others will add their guesses as well.

Ken

Karamela · Jun 19, 2014

Gentlemen,

thank you very much for your welcoming and your ideas.

Sirius Glass: The camera is Lomo Smena 8M and unfortunately, they are not repairing it, at least in my country, since it is old bakelite camea worth 4 dollars.

Ken Nadvornick: Very clever idea about the layers of the unused portion of the roll, thank you! The only thing that is confusing me, that according the position of the triangle it must be somewhere in the bottom near the supply-side of the film path, as you said. But in that area, there are no visible cracks at all.

I will put new film and ducktape the bottom of the camera in hope it will help.

Thanks again, Sirius, Darko and Ken.

John_A · Jun 19, 2014

A simple yet effective way to check for lightleaks is to attach a small flashlight to the front of the lens/lensmount with scotch tape. Find a dark spot and see what happens at the back of the camera when you press and hold the shutter release at the bulb setting.

Karamela · Jun 19, 2014

John_A: Wow, handy trick. I investigated it right away...no light leaking detected. Thanks anyway for the sharing, I'll definitely remember it.

F4user · Jun 19, 2014

From what part of the film pictures are ? .. Beginning ? How many are defective ? Are all in sequence ?
Anyone, can be a faulty manipulation of a film extractor ?

pbromaghin · Jun 19, 2014

Was the picture with 3 triangles very near the beginning of the roll? I think the leak is near the door hinge, that there is no crack, but the light is coming in between the door and the body. This camera is at least 30 years old and not robustly manufactured to begin with. I agree with Sirius, the seal - the material that keeps the light from coming around the door - is probably deteriorated from age. It can be replaced.

I suggest doing a test. Run a roll through the camera and after every few shots add electricians tape to cover one end of the door, then the other, then the top, and finally the bottom. If I am right and it is between the door and body, this will find the leak .

AgX · Jun 19, 2014

The first photo seems to be exposed by moving the film rectangular behind an covering edge, in a repetitive way.

Also the structure of that rather sharp shadow-edge might be telling.

What a about a light leak in the take-up chamber and staggered transport via the winding lever?

Karamela · Jun 19, 2014

F4user: These pictures are no 15 and 16 from 36, so in the middle.
During checking the numbers i detected something strange.
1. picture - light leak
2. - 8. no photos
9. - 12. - NO light leak. Perfect pictures. Taken indoors with flash
13. - 36. light leak

pbromaghin: The only 3-triangle picture is no 15. You are probably right about the gap between the doors, since it is old and 'cheap' camera. The test is appealing. It will take me a little time to do it, but could be worth it. Thank you.

Karamela · Jun 19, 2014

AgX said:
moving the film rectangular behind an covering edge, in a repetitive way.

My english is quite poor so I have no idea what does it mean, sorry. The 3-triangle photo is the only one in whole 36-pictures film (but not first with the light leak and not the only one which has been taken after some time of not using the camera).

AgX said:
Also the structure of that rather sharp shadow-edge might be telling.

Might be, the shape is always the same with a little notch on every triangle, but I have no idea from which part it could be.

AgX said:
What a about a light leak in the take-up chamber and staggered transport via the winding lever?

You could be right. But I don't see a reason, why the staggered transport happened once only.

AgX · Jun 19, 2014

But I don't see a reason, why the staggered transport happened once only.

I don't know either. But be at the camera or elswhere, at least once there must have been such staggered movement. Of the film or that cover.

Ken Nadvornick · Jun 19, 2014

Karamela said:
My english is quite poor so I have no idea what does it mean, sorry. The 3-triangle photo is the only one in whole 36-pictures film (but not first with the light leak and not the only one which has been taken after some time of not using the camera).

But did the other periods of "not using the camera" happen indoors (in much dimmer background light) or outdoors (in much brighter light)?

I have a Russian FED-3b 35mm rangefinder with shutter curtain pinholes. I never realized the shutter was leaking light until I started using it outdoors in the sunlight. Indoors it worked just fine.

(And I think your English is just fine...)

Ken

Karamela · Jun 19, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
But did the other periods of "not using the camera" happen indoors (in much dimmer background light) or outdoors (in much brighter light)?

The other happened outdoors as well.

Ken Nadvornick said:
I have a Russian FED-3b 35mm rangefinder with shutter curtain pinholes. I never realized the shutter was leaking light until I started using it outdoors in the sunlight. Indoors it worked just fine.

Handsome old man. I have to do much more researching indoor and outdoor, good idea. That's what I like on old cameras, after many experiments....you still don't know what happens :]

humble thanks

Truzi · Jun 19, 2014

There may be something you are doing, or a situation, that is causing it to show sporadically.

My Sears KS-2 had a leak on the back door where the hinge is. I never knew there was a problem until I took off the bottom half of the leather(ish) camera cover. I was taking pictures in bright light, finished a roll, and took off the bottom cover to load more film. I never put it back on, anticipating I'd have to change film again soon.

The cover was blocking the area with the bad seals - the leak was on the already exposed film on the take-up spool. It only showed up when I left the bottom cover off, and then only in bright light. If I took several photos in succession, the line (from the leak) was so faint as to barely be noticeable. (I confirmed this by experimenting with some cheap film.)

Tom1956 · Jun 20, 2014

I spent my time reading about a guy with a 4 dollar camera with light leaks, in the spirit of wanting to help. That's 3 minutes of my life I can never get back

AgX · Jun 20, 2014

Put a film in your camera, so that it sticks to the take-up spool.

Then in the dark:
advance as much as to allow new film to sit between cassette and all around the take-up spool.
Open the back again. Mark by scratching the back of film the position where it leaves the cassette.

After closing the back:
expose the camera to very strong light. Turning it all around in all directions.

In the dark again:
advance several frames to be sure the possibly exposed section is now covered by several layers of film.
Use the rest of the film.

After processing check that test section for any exposure. By aligning that section (right orientation in both dimensions!) with the camera or even putting it into the camera you could locate the position of leaks at the camera.

For an optimum test make a second test section now exposed under strong light whilst slowly advancing to test for any light-leaks related to wind-up action.

AgX · Jun 20, 2014

A alternative (or additional) means in your case would be to attach a tiny patch of black isolating tape at the back of the cassette protruding a bit over the "mouth" of the cassette. Its shadow within any light-leak exposure would locate that near and behind the cassette.
(Stick it that way, or bent it over, that it will not stick to the film.)

That "serrated" edge is remarkable and made me first think of the cassete.

Xmas · Jun 20, 2014

Ask if any member of your family has a more advanced camera they could lend or give you. I found my dad had so many friends that I got several cameras and a light meter for free... And that was before digital.

Karamela · Jun 20, 2014

Truzi: Inspiring with the leather cover, thank you for your contribution.

Tom1956 said:
I spent my time reading about a guy with a 4 dollar camera with light leaks, in the spirit of wanting to help. That's 3 minutes of my life I can never get back

Don't forget the time you spend writing this post, that is one minute more, ohmygot thats 4! Worth every dollar.
I am sorry if I make you angry by my ugly cheap camera. I am using it to learn about photography by dismantling it etc.

Xmas: I had Praktica VLC from my dad. It broke one day. In a repair shop they refuse to reapir it, since it is no worth it. I have also Flexaret camera with exposure meter and other stuff, but I don't want to repeat the same mistakes. Thats why I am learning on cheap Russian Smena, it's light, with no zoom or focus, you have to learn how far the objects really are etc...

Again, big thanks all of you, who spend your time to read it and providing your experiences and tips, I have a lot to try. Many thanks. If there is this kind of function, you can close the thread.

gratefully
Kamila

darkosaric · Jun 20, 2014

And it is a girl, not a guy, right Karamela ?

ozphoto · Jun 20, 2014

A colleague of mine picked up a cheap Lomo in Japan one time when we visited for a photoshoot. He wanted to use it on a couple of "down days", and was worried it would leak like mad. We decided to tape up every seal with black gaffer tape for this outing - worked well for him no leaks!

Maybe doing the same in a sequence could lead to discovering where the leak is coming from? Just be sure to make some notes.

Xmas · Jun 20, 2014

Karamela said:
Xmas: I had Praktica VLC from my dad. It broke one day. In a repair shop they refuse to reapir it, since it is no worth it. I have also Flexaret camera with exposure meter and other stuff, but I don't want to repeat the same mistakes. Thats why I am learning on cheap Russian Smena, it's light, with no zoom or focus, you have to learn how far the objects really are etc...

Ok black sticky tape works real well... if you want photos, or

mouse mat, scissors and double sided pressure sensitive tape for semi pro fix.

Lots of the kids here use Lomos at astronomical prices. some more then my canon P and lens cost!

AgX · Jun 20, 2014

Karamela, enjoy your 3€ camera. I hardly ever spend more on a camera. I got the successor model, but still not used it (but read about light leaks. Mine has a mechanical issue with the aperture setting, so one must be careful that it actually sets it right.

I have seen far more advanced cameras fail due to one single grain of sand. Or not to be held without pain. No good design either...

light defect on picture - what causes it?

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