LF on a Budget!

pdjr1991 · Sep 26, 2010

Hello APUG!

Im a 18 yr old soon to be college student that is just getting into 4x5 photography. So far i have a really, really nice Graflex Crown Graphic and it also looks like i will be getting a Cambo (without a lens however). What do you all suggest i get to start out successfully. For example i have a cheap tripod but the plates really small. any manufacturers making budget LF tripods? what other accessories should i get? I still do not have a good light meter. What is a good one to get on a budget? Any other inciteful tips would be greatful to.

Thanks

Preeda

nickandre · Sep 26, 2010

The best light meter you can get is a Nikon N80. It gives you spot, averaging, and matrix metering. If you get lucky it will include a 28-80 and you can take pictures with it! Your alternative is a spot meter, probably more expensive.

Buy a used LF tripod. It's an investment. Budget means flimsy. You can try local camera shows as well.

And find a good 135mm lens for the cambo while you're at it. Make sure you've got all the doodads to mount the lens to the cambo as well.

And film. and film holders.

Have fun.

kauffman v36 · Sep 26, 2010

gossen digisix is a good simple meter on budget ($134). im 20 yrs old so i feel your pain. regarding the tripod, i have a $200 veilbon thats CF legs and it holds a 35mm slr with a 400 2.8 prime lens fine, im not sure about a big 4x5 setup but a field camera should be fine. you can also check for cheap manfrotto tripods, i have one of the lower end versions but its super compact with a small ballhead, holds my Mamiya rzproii w/ 50mm uld just fine, even facing down for long exposures.

which cambo did you get? monorail, cambo portrait, cambo handheld helical focus camera, the weight is a big difference.

i would also getting a small shoe mount held 2 or 3 way level, it comes in handy with composing your shots. also, a cable release is probably a good idea.

btw, the gossen is reflective and incident and is the cheapest on bh that does both, it also has awesome reviews and ive found it to be extremely accurate, the only place it might be a problem is with landscapes where a spotmeter might serve better.

Sirius Glass · Sep 26, 2010

tiberiustibz said:
The best light meter you can get is a Nikon N80. It gives you spot, averaging, and matrix metering. If you get lucky it will include a 28-80 and you can take pictures with it! Your alternative is a spot meter, probably more expensive.

Buy a used LF tripod. It's an investment. Budget means flimsy. You can try local camera shows as well.

And find a good 135mm lens for the cambo while you're at it. Make sure you've got all the doodads to mount the lens to the cambo as well.

And film. and film holders.

Have fun.

Silly me! I use a Nikon F100 as my spot meter for my Hasselblads, Pacemaker Speed Graphic and my Model D Graflex. I use a Gossen LUNA Pro SBC for general light meter readings and the rare time I want an incident reading for reference.

Steve

BetterSense · Sep 26, 2010

You don't really need a light meter anyway. I almost never use one. It's a luxury not a necessity. Print out an exposure table; buy more film.

kauffman v36 · Sep 26, 2010

i too use another camera (Canon 1d3) for metering, especially spot metering...or so i used to. youll get to the point where weight is an important thing and a whole other body just for metering just isnt worth it, especially when carrying heavy LF gear plus tripod, film, film holders, lens(es), etc. thats why a small handheld light meter is perfect.

removed account4 · Sep 26, 2010

for a tripod look for a tiltall tripod.
they are chrome ( like this one in the classifieds - (there was a url link here which no longer exists) )
or black ...

it will work well for both your press and view camera,
and it won't cost very much money.
if you absolutely need a meter, look for a sekonic meter .. there is a guy on e-bai
that sells them ( new old stock ) for about 100$.
don't bother with a the camera as a meter, how many things are you going to lug around with you ?

i am kind of with bettersense ..
meters are helpful, but not really necessary.
learn to judge the light and expose that way ..
http://www.blackcatphotoproducts.com/guide.html
the black cat exposure guide is helpful as well ..

have fun !
john

elekm · Sep 26, 2010

Buy a spot meter. It's foolish to carry another camera for the sole purpose of using it as a meter.

Buy a proper tripod. Buy it used.

In fact, while film photography is inexpensive as far as gear, thanks to "going digital," there still is some cost involved. Buy the best gear that you can afford.

If you buy something cheap, you're going to have to replace it because it won't do its job properly. That might mean that you have to build up your kit over time. But in the end, you save money, because you buy quality equipment once.

Casey Kidwell · Sep 26, 2010

The Graflex is a light camera. It doesn't take a really heavy tripod. I would suggest buying the most ugly, beat up set of Bogen legs you can find and a decent size head without a quick release. There's nothing wrong with using your slr to meter. Unless elekm wants to pay your rent. I would also suggest sticking with the Graflex considering the cost of film, chemistry, etc. Learn the process well and then you will be an educated buyer and can make informed decisions on future purchases.

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 26, 2010

If you are going to get into large format, with the ability to process each sheet of film independently, then you need to get a spot meter so you can understand the contrast range of each scene so you can expose and process accordingly. Do NOT use a 35mm film camera as your meter, and double do not use a digital camera as a meter/polaroid. Digicams' meters are calibrated to the image chip sensitivity, and 35mm film cameras' meters are calibrated to a generic film type, often biased toward either color transparency (under-exposure) or color negative (over-exposure). A good hand-held spot meter can be calibrated to your particular film and developer combination. I really like the Minolta SpotMeter F (it has a 1 degree reflective spot meter for both natural light and flash) because of its versatility as well as the fact that it takes a AA battery. They're a little bit more expensive - expect to spend $200-250. There's also a SpotMeter M that does not have the flash metering capacity and takes a pricey silver-oxide battery. As an alternative, I have a Sekonic L408 which has a 5-degree spot meter (good enough for most situations), reflected and incident readings for both ambient and flash. They're less expensive, but still very precise and can be calibrated. They're also weatherproof which is nice for a meter you're going to drag around in the field a lot.

John Koehrer · Sep 26, 2010

Well now you know everyone's got an opinion.
Tiltall tripods are real hard to beat for a C note or less. Also the Quickset Husky iV, the Bogen 3221(old #) I think the new one is 055xxx. Carbon Fiber is light but pretty expensive. Ebuy always has Tiltalls on there.
If you have a 35mm camera, you can get by without a meter but if not. The Gossen Digisix is tiny and I don't think much more than 1 oz. IMO a spot meter is both expensive & bulky. I use a Gossen Digiflash which also has a flash meter function. I got it for $75. on Ebuy as a buy-it-now.

IF you are in the US, PM me your address & I'll send you a basic(college level) photo textbook.

Joe VanCleave · Sep 27, 2010

Here's a non-conventional recommendation for a sturdy budget LF tripod: a surveyor's tripod from Home Depot or Lowe's. Costs <$90US. Then you need to get an adapter from the 5/8" to 1/4" bolt. Like here, for instance.

~Joe

alanrockwood · Sep 27, 2010

I found a good old sturdy mostly wooden tripod on ebay. I have a view camera mounted on it. I don't recall the price, but I am a cheapskate and never bid high, so it was probably a good price.

Rick A · Sep 27, 2010

If you are considering a Tiltall, do not buy it for inflated prices on fleabuy, Freestyle sells them for a c-note, and you get a good warranty. Its true you dont need a light meter, but you also especially dont need a spot meter, a good incident meter will cover 90 plus percent of lighting situations accurately.

r1ma · Sep 27, 2010

Here's what I've done:

#1 - Gittos big heavy tripod. Bought it at a store that was moving to a new location. $90. Aluminum, heavier than my 35mm or M645, opens up to more than 6', and with splayed legs, down to ~4" (not with the original ~18" center column though).
#1b - I bought a shorty column to get down to the 4", but I like low level shots. YMMV
#2 - Manfrotto ball head. $45 ish online. Closest thing I paid MSRP to.
#3 - Old school Gossen Pilot 2 and Super Pilot. $20 combined. Incident & reflected meters, don't use batteries
#3b - An original Ashai Pentax Spotmeter (the one with the 9V & deadly mercury battery). $20. But I still need to either wedge cheap hearing aid batteries in there, or buy a $35 adapter. Total luxury purchase.

On to this goes a Toyo/Omega View 45D ($40) with a 75mm lens ($40).

If you can't find a deal on a decent AL or wood tripod, defantly look at surveyor's tripods. In addition to big box stores, find a local surveyor's supply store, they might have some killer deals or even some used stuff (or connections to someone who does)

pdjr1991 · Sep 27, 2010

@tiberiustibz, i have a nice F100 and used to have a N80

pdjr1991 · Sep 27, 2010

Ill keep that in mind fellow Nikon F100 shooter!

pdjr1991 · Sep 27, 2010

Ive used a chart, but most don't go below iso 6. In my case i use this for positive paper. Check out the positive paper group when you have a chance

pdjr1991 · Sep 27, 2010

TheFlyingCamera said:
If you are going to get into large format, with the ability to process each sheet of film independently, then you need to get a spot meter so you can understand the contrast range of each scene so you can expose and process accordingly. Do NOT use a 35mm film camera as your meter, and double do not use a digital camera as a meter/polaroid. Digicams' meters are calibrated to the image chip sensitivity, and 35mm film cameras' meters are calibrated to a generic film type, often biased toward either color transparency (under-exposure) or color negative (over-exposure). A good hand-held spot meter can be calibrated to your particular film and developer combination. I really like the Minolta SpotMeter F (it has a 1 degree reflective spot meter for both natural light and flash) because of its versatility as well as the fact that it takes a AA battery. They're a little bit more expensive - expect to spend $200-250. There's also a SpotMeter M that does not have the flash metering capacity and takes a pricey silver-oxide battery. As an alternative, I have a Sekonic L408 which has a 5-degree spot meter (good enough for most situations), reflected and incident readings for both ambient and flash. They're less expensive, but still very precise and can be calibrated. They're also weatherproof which is nice for a meter you're going to drag around in the field a lot.

Thanks, thats exactly why i want a meter. Camera meters are tailor made for, well, the camera.

Sirius Glass · Sep 27, 2010

pdjr1991 said:
Ill keep that in mind fellow Nikon F100 shooter!

I also use my Nikon F100 as a shooter and a spotmeter. Sometimes 4"x5" is the right choice; sometimes the Hasselblads are the right choice; sometimes 35mm is the right choice.

Steve

pdjr1991 · Sep 27, 2010

Thank you everybody so far. Keep the advice flooding. I would really like a good USED light meter. Spot metering would be nice. As for a tripod, i have seen some with a very larger surface area for the camera to sit on on the head. I would like something like that. TO me alot of these ball heads, and even video heads do not have the surface area i would like. Im the type of person that is better safe than sorry. Thanks again!

Preeda Dulyachinda

paul_c5x4 · Sep 27, 2010

pdjr1991 said:
Any other inciteful tips would be greatful to.

The best budget to have when doing large format, is an even larger budget. 5x4 (or 4x5 if you're over there) is about the cheapest entry point and decent equipment can sometimes be found for a steal. However, like any addiction, the first fix is free and the real expense comes in feeding the habit long after you have left college.

Marry into a rich family so that you do not have to work, or work hard and land a plum job as a CEO of a multinational corp.

pdjr1991 · Sep 27, 2010

paul_c5x4 said:
The best budget to have when doing large format, is an even larger budget. 5x4 (or 4x5 if you're over there) is about the cheapest entry point and decent equipment can sometimes be found for a steal. However, like any addiction, the first fix is free and the real expense comes in feeding the habit long after you have left college.

Marry into a rich family so that you do not have to work, or work hard and land a plum job as a CEO of a multinational corp.

Your a genious. I like your idea. And yep im over "there". I am now a proud owner of 2 4x5 cameras. The only thing i could really see getting any bigger is 8x10. That would be for wet collodion. I now have a Cambo SC (i think that is what it is). It needs a lens but came with three lens board. I do not know what copal size it is (any body have the sizes?). I would love to hear from some Cambo shooters.

r1ma · Sep 27, 2010

http://www.skgrimes.com/products/index.htm

3/4s through the chart, there is lensboard hole diameter.

AgentX · Sep 27, 2010

I love spotmeters, but you don't absolutely need one. Standard handheld reflective metering of the local area can be fine under a lot of lighting conditions. If your foreground has the same light as the background choose (or construct) a nearby shadow and highlight and meter off those. And you can get an older handheld meter for a song.

If you can score an old Soligor meter or whatever within your budget, I'd get it, but I'd worry more about having the essentials, like a good tripod, a min of 3-4 holders, and a good stock of film before I considered a spotmeter. This was about being on a budget, so I wouldn't try to scare anyone into thinking they absolutely need a spotmeter before using large format.

I second the Tiltall recommendation, but would keep my eyes open for an old Bogen 3021 with a decent head, too.

Signing up on Large Format forum and waiting 30 days for access to the classifieds is a good way to score deals.

LF on a Budget!

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