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Hassasin

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Do you see differences between the RB67 C and KL lenses?

Significant differences is in feel due to age and seemingly some advances put to good use by Mamiya in KL line. Optically? I won't go there. There are claims that QC of C line was not on par with KL, which is probably main reason for seeing wide range of feedback on C lenses and quite universal praise for the KL.
 

Steven Lee

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Could it also be that medium format starts with larger emulsions and less enlargements than 35mm?

Well, that's the advantage of a larger negative in general, but I was referring to less variability between brands. You can absolutely buy a crap lens in the 35mm world, which will be worlds apart from a Summicron. But contemporary MF and LF lenses don't differ from each other that much.
 

BHuij

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I'm fairly picky about lenses in 35mm (or digital) because I'm enlarging a lot. As soon as I hit 6x6, I'm FAR less picky. On a good day I might print 16x20 from a medium format negative. Mostly a lot smaller. Lens weakness basically doesn't show up at these sizes. I couldn't even tell you if my large format lenses are good (I assume they're all fine) because enlarging 4x on each side isn't going to show any problems that the lenses might have.
 

Sirius Glass

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Lighter also gets it fairly close to "flimsy", shoot cannot believe I said that, it's Hasselblad.

When I first heard of Hass body getting out of shape and needed to be corrected again, I thought it was a joke. Then I acquired a skeleton of one, never used for further assembly. It's quite obvious it can indeed be stressed beyond design strength and I would imagine some of the long lenses are probably capable, if not properly supported.

Now I am getting the Sonnar 250, and even if that is not the heaviest, I am not sure if it can be safely mounted without lens support when shooting from tripod, a requirement for the most part. To my knowledge they never made any lens specific support except for the Variogon.

I have had one Hasselblad body adjusted once. It was slightly out of alignment. The repair people as Samys said that is more common with the other MF SLRs. I have never needed a tripod to use the 250mm lens, however the swing weight and the weight of the 500mm lens is such that a tripod is needed for most people. I have not used the 350mm lens so I have no opinion about whether it is mainly a hand held lens or a tripod lens. I disagree with the comments about the Hasselblad being flimsy, but if you handle some of the Bronicas you would find them flimsy.
 

Pieter12

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whether it is mainly a hand held lens or a tripod lens

I find that a tripod is needed for a MF SLR with any lens longer than 50mm and medium-speed film. You can really see the difference upon careful examination. An 80mm will give acceptable results, but still benefits from a tripod or monopod. Obviously, higher speed film, bright light or strobes are a different situation.
 

Sirius Glass

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I find that a tripod is needed for a MF SLR with any lens longer than 50mm and medium-speed film. You can really see the difference upon careful examination. An 80mm will give acceptable results, but still benefits from a tripod or monopod. Obviously, higher speed film, bright light or strobes are a different situation.

I use mostly ISO 400 films. Hand holdability will be influenced by film speed. What speed films do you use?
 

bluechromis

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When I got into medium format, I had a similar realization but I came up with a different explanation. What I have noticed right away is that in the world of medium format cameras, there is far less disparity in quality among contemporary lenses than between 35mm format lenses. I think this is mostly because medium format has largely been a medium for professionals, and all pro-grade gear is made to a higher standard. Even if there is tangible difference between Hasselblad and Mamiya lenses, it is often eaten away by focus errors, film flatness, or grain.

The most recent example is Mamiya 135mm Sekor TLR lens which I just acquired. Supposedly it was considered to be the worst lens for C-series Mamiya TLRs. Yet, I just developed and scanned my first roll, mostly exposed at the widest aperture and I fail to see any faults in these images.

The reason I prefer Zeiss lenses and the Hasselblad system in general is their supreme build quality, simplicity in operation, heavy and slow focusing, and consistency: same coatings, same filter diameter, same ergonomics and almost the same maximum aperture for common focal lengths.

I have heard people say the Richard Avedon was fond of the Sekor 135 mm for TLR.
 

bluechromis

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Yes, in that case the tripod is your best friend.

The point about the tripod is a good one. Using a tripod may make as much of difference in sharpness as the difference between the best lenses and merely good lenses. There may be more bang for the buck for sharpness in investing in a good tripod than buying uber fancy lenses.
 

eli griggs

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The point about the tripod is a good one. Using a tripod may make as much of difference in sharpness as the difference between the best lenses and merely good lenses. There may be more bang for the buck for sharpness in investing in a good tripod than buying uber fancy lenses.

The Best of lenses are always at the mercy of an unstable support, be it flesh and blood, carbon fiber or heavier metal alloys, standing in a stiff breeze.

A good older Gitzo or Tilt All in aluminium gives you great stability value in a great photographic system tool.

IMO.
 

mrosenlof

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I own a Hasselblad bought used in 2014 and 40,50,80,100,120,150,250 lenses. I have made many pictures with them that make me happy. I only have a single body, but a few film holders. It's rare that I need more than one.

I own a Mamiya C330f bought new in 1982, with 55, 65, 80, 105, 135, 180 lenses. I have made many pictures with them that make me happy. I have three bodies. The swapable film holders are extra big! It's rare that I need more than one.

Tripod almost 100% of the time. Monochrome 100% of the time since 1997 at least.

There are other excellent medium format reflex systems also.

IMHO, FWIW, YMMV

I'm not sure I have contributed much useful to this discussion.
 

Hassasin

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I have had one Hasselblad body adjusted once. It was slightly out of alignment. The repair people as Samys said that is more common with the other MF SLRs. I have never needed a tripod to use the 250mm lens, however the swing weight and the weight of the 500mm lens is such that a tripod is needed for most people. I have not used the 350mm lens so I have no opinion about whether it is mainly a hand held lens or a tripod lens. I disagree with the comments about the Hasselblad being flimsy, but if you handle some of the Bronicas you would find them flimsy.

Hasselblad feels far more fragile to any Bronica I own, old and later. SWC is a different beast as I mentioned, not so with 503.
 

markjwyatt

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...I once owned a number of those Nikon 105 2.5 lenses, and can say w/ absolute certainty that they are certainly sharp. Wonderful for documentary type things and many other uses.

But generally speaking, Nikon lenses don't have very good bokeh...
The Sonnar type 105's (especially on rangefinders) have pretty nice bokeh. This is in Contax mount (and somewhat closed down, maybe f5.6 to 8).


stump by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr


ex-tree by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

This is closer to wide open:


honeysuckle by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr
 
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The point about the tripod is a good one. Using a tripod may make as much of difference in sharpness as the difference between the best lenses and merely good lenses. There may be more bang for the buck for sharpness in investing in a good tripod than buying uber fancy lenses.

I gave up early with hand holding especailly since I shoot Velvia 50. With landscapes especially where you usually want deep DOF, you;re shooting pretty slow stopped down even if you shoot with 400 speed.
 

itsdoable

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Re: Hasselblad and Tripods:

victor-med-fjallpipare.jpg


Here he is before establishing the Hasselblad as we know it now.

And the 1st camera he made was definitely made to be hand held (HK7)

But most pictures you see of him using the V cameras are on tripods, because he was usually trying to optimize image quality with a long lens. From the ergonomics, it was clearly made for both cases, depending on your use.
 

Sirius Glass

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Re: Hasselblad and Tripods:

View attachment 330604

Here he is before establishing the Hasselblad as we know it now.

And the 1st camera he made was definitely made to be hand held (HK7)

But most pictures you see of him using the V cameras are on tripods, because he was usually trying to optimize image quality with a long lens. From the ergonomics, it was clearly made for both cases, depending on your use.

Also films were much slower back then so tripods would be needed for many situations even before any filters were added.
 

ic-racer

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Hasselblads look great and are a real part of film photography history. I'll probably never own one and can say I have never used one. But why all Anti-Hassy vibes? What is not to like about this...

Screen Shot 2023-02-25 at 2.26.50 PM.png
 

markjwyatt

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Hasselblads look great and are a real part of film photography history. I'll probably never own one and can say I have never used one. But why all Anti-Hassy vibes? What is not to like about this...

View attachment 330607

I am a fan of Hassys. especially for their optics. Don't own one, but who knows someday...
 

Hassasin

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Hasselblads look great and are a real part of film photography history. I'll probably never own one and can say I have never used one. But why all Anti-Hassy vibes? What is not to like about this...

View attachment 330607
Some of us own most MF brands, so direct comparison is easy. Biased? Perhaps in some cases, but being part of history is kind of a moot point, since same can be easily ... easily said about Bronica, among others. Going to the Moon makes a marketing difference for sure, but Hasselblad is not what a lot of people make it out to be. I won't go into my points of all the what and why did they do it, as I find it just as moot.

Since I do own Hasselblad (and most other brands), in my opinion it is love or hate gear, far more than any other, probably partly due to actual cost of acquiring one (as one expects more, spending so much). And frankly that more practically never comes. I will stay out of any discussion about Zeiss glass, I find it simply silly to argue, no offence intended.

All of it is of course subjective, but I do agree with anyone having trouble with Hasselblad ergonomics. It is not a well balanced camera, even if it is on lighter side. Brilliance of Bronica's Speed Grip comes to mind a lot of times.

But that "lighter" also comes at a cost. As I mentioned earlier, main frame of the camera is scary skinny. One cannot see it, let alone feel it, but it is worth touching just for the sake of having own opinion.

So seeing that frame in naked mode, then thinking of a heavy lens in front and film magazine in the back, it does make me pause.

Is it affecting long term rigidity?

Maybe, maybe not. But that is not the point. But `I do know I will care for my 503CW a lot more at any point of handling, a lot more than any other brand, simply because I do not trust it to remain in alignment. Now, surely Hass lovers will come right back saying it's been around for so long .... Fine, does not make me feel any better.

Then the case of machining go-together pieces. Is it understandable to expect perfection in pieces matching, especially given brand's social status, fame of mechanical perfection etc.? I sure think so.

Yet my new (not a mark on it anywhere) Distagon 60 CB when mounted on the body ... wobbles, and that is wobbles in the mount to the point of questioning if it was somehow mounted wrong. But no, and sadly, this is not an isolated case from my research. I was told not to worry, which makes no difference, it wobbles.

I do not have a single lens in any system that wobbles once mounted on a camera. How did that make it out to the market? It should have never left the factory. Blame swiss cheese QC system if you like, but I've done enough reading of their marketing materials, history etc. Judging by that, this should have never happened. Since there are, reportedly, more lenses with same problem out there, it only supports my lack of trust in what they produced over the years. I now ask sellers to confirm lens mounts on camera with solid fit before jumping into further considerations. Call it nitpicking, then check out the prices.

There are some design decisions that I will never understand either. Like release latch on the focusing adapter (as for use on SWC or Flexbody). The way it sticks out, it makes it prone to accidental release. With heavy prism mounted on it, the whole thing just flies off. I know, it happened to me, luckily caught early enough to prevent major damage to this several-hundred-bucks assembly. There were much better ways to make it, a pure design brain fart.

I could give more examples of strange design decisions, or lack of production precision, but I'll stop here. I won't make any minds change how they feel about Hass anyways.

I will also restate my earlier: SWC is a different beast. It spells great mechanics, feels super solid, and can easily spoil anyone regarding what Hasselblad is. Flexbody is fairly close second in that department, but not as much, probably because of all the moving parts not giving same solid feedback when heavy lens is mounted on front standard.

All in all, as I had stated, Hasselblad is surely a fine photographic tool, and one can indeed just have V-system and get the required pieces for any kind of work, but anyone longing for one, rent it out before jumping in. It is not all what people make it out to be.

And no, I have no regrets, getting into it, but I also fully understand anyone who made no love with it.
 
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