Let the fun begin: Time to shop lenses!

laz · Aug 25, 2005

Well, he says rubbing his hands together, now that the $$ is winging it's way to Matt for my 1st. 8x10, its time to consider my first lens! According to the wonderful advice in Using The View Camera, I should go with what I'll be shooting--landscape--and what I like in other formats--love my wides 21mm-35mm in 35mm format-- I think that puts me in the +/- 200mm range.

Q1. Am I correct about the focal length?

Q2. The range of lenses/prices is even more bewildering than the cameras! If I have a budget of $200.00 for a lens (perferably in shutter) What should I be looking for?

I had such great luck with the APUG wanted board, I'll be going there with my decision. (of course this post could easily be read as a "wanted" )

colrehogan · Aug 25, 2005

I suspect it's in the less than 200 mm range.

If you have a budget of $200, I'd say if you can find a 159 mm Wollensak (they come in f/9.5 and f/12 minimum apertures) that is a nice wide angle. A 210 or 240 G-Claron is also a good buy, but likely out of your price range.

My question to you is, how much movements do you think you'll be using? This is something to take into consideration when buying a lens since each lens has a different amount of coverage before you get vignetting/soft corners, etc.

Daniel Grenier · Aug 25, 2005

Sounds like you're after a 240mm lens. But, for $200, you're not going to get much of anything - certainly not a "modern" lens. And, like Diane says, the movements you expect to require is paramount. I made the mistake of buying a lens with too little coverage as my first 8x10 lens years ago. Costly mistakes these are.

Really do your homework.Check this out for a comprehensive list of lenses and coverage. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenseslist.html

Good luck.

Paul Sorensen · Aug 25, 2005

I think that if you can live without a shutter than you might be able to get a G-claron or another process lens for the money. It would be modern and sharp stopped down. I haven't seen many wide angle lenses for 8X10 for the price you are looking at that include shutters or have any kind of decent coverage.

I thought that a 4X5 lens was three times the length of a 35mm, therefore 8X10 should be 6 times the length (doubling again the diagonal measurement of the film) That would mean that Diane is right, you are looking at under 200mm, probably 180 or so. If you can stretch to the equivalent of 35mm, than about 210. I think it might make sense at your budget to consider no shutter or less of a wide angle, otherwise it might be very hard to find what you want.

By the way, here is a handy list, it is basically the same as the above list, but sorted by coverage. http://www.brucebarrett.com/large_format/LF_Lens_Coverage.html

Paul Sorensen · Aug 25, 2005

laz127 said:
Q2. The range of lenses/prices is even more bewildering than the cameras! If I have a budget of $200.00 for a lens (perferably in shutter) What should I be looking for?

And a more direct answer to this question: Someone who does not know what they are selling.

jp80874 · Aug 25, 2005

Laz,

If you have MS-Excel you might find the 8x10 lens comparison list useful on the Large Format Photography page. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/

From that the 8x10 equivalent to 21mm in 35mm is in the 150mm-155mm range. Whew that is wide. My 210mm seems awfully broad in coverage.

Good luck. Im only about 9 months into the process of learning 8x10 myself.

John Powers

laz · Aug 25, 2005

Paul Sorensen said:
And a more direct answer to this question: Someone who does not know what they are selling.

LOL! Great answer! And actually what I was looking for (the answer not the clueless seller, although one would be nice!)

So, it seems my budget needs adjusting or my aims.

8X10 should be 6 times the length

Yup that's the math I used 35mm x 6 = 210mm. Hence my +/- 200mm guesstimate.

21mm in 35mm is in the 150mm-155mm range. Whew that is wide.

Yup again; before being bit by the LF bug I had been drooling over a Voightlander 12/5.6 Ultra Wide Heliar (non-fisheye) for my rangefinder.

So, in light of all the responses to what level should I bump up my budget, lens size or both? (men always want to go up in size)

I realize that lens choice is often highly personal, but, go for it folks.

Thanks!

-Bob

matt miller · Aug 25, 2005

I've always taken the lens length divided by 7 to get a rough equivalent of what a lens in the 8x10 format might look like in the 35mm format. 165mm = 24mm. The two formats are shaped different, so there are different ways of looking at it.

Too bad someone here doesn't have a 165 angulon in shutter for sale

The wider you go, the more difficult it can be to focus in the corners. You might want to start with something closer to the 210-240 range.

Good Luck,
Matt

Nick Zentena · Aug 25, 2005

I forget what I paid for my Fuji 210mm. It's the older single coated 80 degree version. But the fact I don't remember what I paid means it wasn't too far above your budget of $200.

It's single coated and it's in an old Seiko shutter both help keep the prices down.

If you're patient you can get a 240/210mm claron and shutter for much less then $200. I spent less then $50 for a 240mm g-claron. The shutter came off an old Xenar that I wasn't using at the time.

Paul Sorensen · Aug 25, 2005

laz127 said:
LOL! Great answer! And actually what I was looking for (the answer not the clueless seller, although one would be nice!)

So, it seems my budget needs adjusting or my aims.

I guess you could do what Jim Galli does. I figure he has a saved search in eBay that goes something like "sack full of old garbage lenses that I don't recognize" he always seems to be there when old lenses go undervalued.

Seriously I don't know prices well enough, but the no shutter comment was a serious one earlier. Think about the types of shooting you will be doing, your aperture (probably f32 or less) whether you will use a red filter (there goes another 3.5 stops) and what film you will be using. It is easy to envision shooting landscapes in these circumstances where you will have several second exposures most every time. Imagine shooting ISO 16 film (ISO 100 minus 2.5 stops for a red filter) at f/32 or 45 and you get the idea.

If you are looking for a reasonably modern lens, I think you are looking at at least $300 - $500 for a 210 that covers 8X10. Most 210s won't cover that much. If you push it to 240, you might be in better shape. Midwest Photo Exchange has a 210mm Fujinon W that they say covers 8X10 for about $350. They are great folks to deal with. According to the list I posted earlier, it should give you 352mm of coverage, which should be fine. Actually, KEH has one in bargain condition for $225, that might just be your lens. In fact, I just looked at it and it has Laz127 written on it! best hurry! Dead Link Removed

Nick Zentena · Aug 25, 2005

If that's the right picture it's the wrong lens. The lens that covers 8x10 is the older lens with the writing on the front not the outside of the lens. Keh has a cheaper one in a Seiko shutter. It might be the right one but best to check.

http://members.aol.com/subgallery/210w56.jpg

That's what it should look like. Notice the position of the writing.

Paul Sorensen · Aug 25, 2005

Nick Zentena said:
If that's the right picture it's the wrong lens. The lens that covers 8x10 is the older lens with the writing on the front not the outside of the lens. Keh has a cheaper one in a Seiko shutter. It might be the right one but best to check.

http://members.aol.com/subgallery/210w56.jpg

That's what it should look like. Notice the position of the writing.

Fujinon lenses never were easy to figure out. Thanks for the clarification. Actually, this is a good thing, most folks want to stay away from the lenses with the writing on the inside because they are older, they are likely to be cheaper because of that. (I know that my 150mm 5.6 was cheaper and it has HUGE coverage for a 150)

The cheaper one that they have listed is the WS, right? I thought that was a newer one with less coverage.

Midwest has the older style shown for their $350 lens.

laz · Aug 25, 2005

"sack full of old garbage lenses that I don't recognize"

Again I LOL! You guys are too much! ("guys" used in an all-gender-inclusive manner)

According to the list I posted earlier, it should give you 352mm of coverage, which should be fine.

Actually, KEH has one in bargain condition for $225, that might just be your lens. In fact, I just looked at it and it has Laz127 written on it! best hurry!

oh lordy Paul, I'm just the type to go jumping on such a suggestion! So, are you saying if I buy it and it turns out not to have my name on it you'll take it off my hands?

Seriously now, someone second Paul's advice to hurry and buy it and I will.

Nick Zentena · Aug 25, 2005

The WS in the Seiko shutter. $205. Look at the picture I posted. It's a WS but it's the old single coated 80 degree model.

Best thing would be to see if Keh is willing to sell the lens on approval. They've had both of these lenses for a long time. I went with one from Mpex partly because Keh didn't answer my emails about the lenses.

I keep thinking of looking for that 150mm lens-))

Paul Sorensen · Aug 25, 2005

laz127 said:
oh lordy Paul, I'm just the type to go jumping on such a suggestion! So, are you saying if I buy it and it turns out not to have my name on it you'll take it off my hands?

Seriously now, someone second Paul's advice to hurry and buy it and I will.

I am withdrawing my advice. I may have misread the writing on the lens. Check with them about which lens it is and also which lens the cheaper one in the Seiko shutter is. According to Nick, the writing has to be on the inside or it is a newer lens with less coverage. (See his photo) I would call KEH about the one without the photo in the Seiko shutter. Older Fujinons seem to be in Seiko shutters quite often, so that might be the one. (And it's even cheaper) You can actually ask them if your name is on it!

jimgalli · Aug 25, 2005

I have several lenses that would fit your desires but likely not your budget. I have a scuffy 240mm G-Claron in barrel that will actually produce stunning negatives in spite of it's problems, mostly hurt is value for resale. I'd guarantee you'd be thrilled with your 810 contacts, and even 4X5 enlargements. $155 in barrel, or $305 if I put it in a shutter and calibrate it for you. Also have one of the early 210mm G-Claron's that is a Dagor type in shutter and it's perfect. It will definitely knock your socks off for snap. In Copal 1 shutter. $365 Have an extremely nice late coated American Optical Co. Dagor 210mm in the smaller nicer Rapax shutter; $565 Have an excellent convertible B&L Protar in shutter 198mm / 350mm $445 Jorge has a 159mm that he bought from me and then he upgraded to the very expensive Schneider 150XL. He was trying to sell his 159 Wolly and I can confirm that it is as close to perfect as anyone needs.

Paul Sorensen · Aug 25, 2005

Nick Zentena said:
The WS in the Seiko shutter. $205. Look at the picture I posted. It's a WS but it's the old single coated 80 degree model.

Best thing would be to see if Keh is willing to sell the lens on approval. They've had both of these lenses for a long time. I went with one from Mpex partly because Keh didn't answer my emails about the lenses.

I keep thinking of looking for that 150mm lens-))

I got mine for $169 from a guy in Japan on eBay. For whatever reason he doesn't put photos on his ads and I was a little worried, but the lens was perfect except for slight schneideritis (fujiitis?) and the shipping was quicker than most US sellers. I think he goes by Ginotokousa or something like that, he also sells tons of Mamiya 645 stuff. He is an american so language is not an issue either.

PS, all purchases on KEH are covered by their 14 day return. If it doesn't cover you can return it and be out shipping only.

laz · Aug 25, 2005

jimgalli said:
Also have one of the early 210mm G-Claron's that is a Dagor type in shutter and it's perfect. It will definitely knock your socks off for snap. In Copal 1 shutter. $365

Okay, you have my attention tell me more and keep in mind my socks usually hang pretty loose......

And is it impolite to ask for others to comment on this lens being offered? Pretend you're standing by my side at the Lens-O-Rama store and the salesman, whoops, salesperson just rolled it out on the blue velvet pad. (I guess you could PM me if you want to whisper in my ear )

-Bob

Paul Sorensen · Aug 25, 2005

laz127 said:
Okay, you have my attention tell me more and keep in mind my socks usually hang pretty loose......

And is it impolite to ask for others to comment on this lens being offered? Pretend you're standing by my side at the Lens-O-Rama store and the salesman, whoops, salesperson just rolled it out on the blue velvet pad. (I guess you could PM me if you want to whisper in my ear )

-Bob

Don't trust Galli!!!

Oops, I guess that wasn't a whisper.

I don't know the lens, but I would trust Jim on it based on all of the wonderful comments I have heard here on APUG.

Nick Zentena · Aug 25, 2005

Paul Sorensen said:
PS, all purchases on KEH are covered by their 14 day return. If it doesn't cover you can return it and be out shipping only.

The problem is I'm in Canada. The hassle of sending it back would be bad enough but I doubt I'd get the taxes and fees back-(

magic823 · Aug 25, 2005

What's the coverage on a 159mm Wolly?

Steve

laz · Aug 25, 2005

I found this in the APUG archive:

bmac said:
If the 210 G-Claron were a woman, I'd marry that girl...

I am totally in love with mine. I use it on 4x5 and 8x10 all the time. I loved it so much, I bought her a couple friends (150mm and a 305mm)

I just sent an e-mail to Jim proposing marriage to the 210 G-Claron and ask what method of dowery payment he would like!

laz · Aug 25, 2005

The deed is done! Jim says the bride will ship tomorrow, time to plan the honeymoon!

magic823 · Aug 25, 2005

laz127 said:
The deed is done! Jim says the bride will ship tomorrow, time to plan the honeymoon!

Just be gentle and treat her like a lady.

Paul Sorensen · Aug 26, 2005

laz127 said:
The deed is done! Jim says the bride will ship tomorrow, time to plan the honeymoon!

You do realize that your bride probably won't appreciate your having any mistresses, unless you live in certain parts of Utah or Arizona. However, this might be one of the few times we would ask you to post images of the two of you consummating the relationship.

Let the fun begin: Time to shop lenses!

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