Let’s talk about SUPREMACY APO Cron 50mm

[BradS]

Because very many lenses Leitz/Leica have made so far are starting with Summi. So, we just dropping confusing part. Believe it or not, it is very difficult for me to remember which one is Summarit and which one is Summitar after I have tried both. With Summicron which I have tried three and Summilux I don't have money for. All are Summisomething. And then where are Summar and Summarons to add even more confusion. And I have tried them as well.
So, at least it is easy with just Lux and Cron.

Ah...that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[chip j]

What's so hot about the 50 Summicron version IV that I keep hearing about?

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I got the impression that Leica made that lens "'cause they could." Leicaphiliacs would pay for it because they love that exclusive stuff. Kind of a waste to use it on digital since digital won't resolve like fine grained film. Put it on a tripod and make really large prints with impeccable darkroom skill. You would also need a lens to match it in the darkroom, so an APO El Nikkor or a Zeiss Orthoplanar. That would probably be the best you could ever get with 35mm film.

The only problem with this is in order to get that ultimate quality you have to use a tripod which kind of makes no sense when you are using a rangefinder. I am of the opinion that if I have to use a tripod, I might as well get a huge negative for my trouble.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

What's so hot about the 50 Summicron version IV that I keep hearing about?

It has current non-APO Summicron optics.
It has two sub-versions. Yearly Canadian, which is not so wear and tear resistant mechanically and German, with more durable build.
I'm not finding anything hot in this version of Cron optically. Very sterile lens on BW prints, but I haven't gave up on mine yet.
My last hope - it might be good on large prints, seems to be very high resolution lens.

 

[NB23]

I like the black paint summicron 50mm V4, the special edition that came with the MP classic soecial edition.

 

[chip j]

Thanks. If it's "sterile', let it be far from me.

 

[BradS]

So, what is so special about this lens? What is the design?

It seems like many of the Leica lenses before this should also have been APO (APO is kinda passe by now). Engraving APO on the lens barrel is seen as marketing hype...and is so last century!

Seriously, what makes it so special? (and, please spare me the usual Leica fan boy speak..please just use plain old technical terms...like, "it has 8 element in 5 groups, a modified planar design", etc).

 

[E. von Hoegh]

The Noctilux is faster, and so, better.

Yes indeed, it has more bull$hit. I mean bokeh.

 

[hacked - sepiareverb]

The Elmar-M is smaller, and so, better.

 

[Lachlan Young]

The thing that's so striking to me is that even on film, almost all of the current crop of 'ultimate' so-called 'no-compromise' lenses are all very sharp etc & yet completely devoid of any real character. The pre-aspherical rangefinder lens era seemed to offer a better compromise between character & resolution, distortion control etc, & in turn those slight quirks contribute quite strongly to the 'feel' and emotional character of the subsequent imagery. An imperfectly corrected lens may be exactly what is needed to communicate perfectly with the audience.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

The thing that's so striking to me is that even on film, almost all of the current crop of 'ultimate' so-called 'no-compromise' lenses are all very sharp etc & yet completely devoid of any real character. The pre-aspherical rangefinder lens era seemed to offer a better compromise between character & resolution, distortion control etc, & in turn those slight quirks contribute quite strongly to the 'feel' and emotional character of the subsequent imagery. An imperfectly corrected lens may be exactly what is needed to communicate perfectly with the audience.

Yes.
See my first post, regarding the Summitar.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

So, what is so special about this lens? What is the design?

It seems like many of the Leica lenses before this should also have been APO (APO is kinda passe by now). Engraving APO on the lens barrel is seen as marketing hype...and is so last century!

Seriously, what makes it so special? (and, please spare me the usual Leica fan boy speak..please just use plain old technical terms...like, "it has 8 element in 5 groups, a modified planar design", etc).

Some Leica lenses with APO design has no APO label on them.

I'm not sure if it will makes sense for you, but just in case:
http://lenspire.zeiss.com/en/article/achromat-and-apochromat-what-is-the-difference/

 

[Theo Sulphate]

This is all just wanking. Carl Zeiss Jena 50/2.8 Tessar from the early 1950's matches anything I've ever seen from a Leitz lens ...and I have more than a few Leitz lenses, so it's not envy.

 

[hacked - sepiareverb]

The APO Summicron 90 is longer, and so, better.

 

[John Koehrer]

I always wonder why people say 'cron' instead of its full name, summicron.It is confusing for us non Leica folk.

Cognoscente: Those with special knowledge. IE:One of the in crowd.

 

[warden]

That was an interesting article, thanks. If I would have been shown the example images (with the model, but minus the notes about color fringes) and asked about the differences between lenses I would have picked the APO as noticeably sharper but probably wouldn't have noticed the fringing issue. I can appreciate the pursuit of ultimate quality, but I guess that last little bit isn't for me.

Some Leica lenses with APO design has no APO label on them.

I'm not sure if it will makes sense for you, but just in case:
http://lenspire.zeiss.com/en/article/achromat-and-apochromat-what-is-the-difference/

 

[Ko.Fe.]

That was an interesting article, thanks. If I would have been shown the example images (with the model, but minus the notes about color fringes) and asked about the differences between lenses I would have picked the APO as noticeably sharper but probably wouldn't have noticed the fringing issue. I can appreciate the pursuit of ultimate quality, but I guess that last little bit isn't for me.

I think, APO is post film era technology. To me APO is about ultra-fine presentation of color and it is most visible on digital sensor.
While on film it might be next to useless attempt to refine something not really present or to make something better, while is not so critical for many.

 

[BradS]

I think, APO is post film era technology. To me APO is about ultra-fine presentation of color and it is most visible on digital sensor.
While on film it might be next to useless attempt to refine something not really present or to make something better, while is not so critical for many.

This is not accurate. Lenses have been APO for literally decades. Many are APO by design and were not labeled as such because...well, probably because nobody cared. It was marketing hype that engraved the APO designation on the lens barrel.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I think, APO is post film era technology. To me APO is about ultra-fine presentation of color and it is most visible on digital sensor.
While on film it might be next to useless attempt to refine something not really present or to make something better, while is not so critical for many.

Process lenses were apochromatically corrected well before WWII. Postwar came the Apo Lanthars, although they had only a "relative" apochromatic correction compared to say a Goerz Artar.

 

[Huss]

I much prefer my J-8 lens than the Leica Apo Cron. The extremely light, clickless aperture ring allows me to get shots I never could with the Cron. It prevented me from capturing the decisive moment.

 

[btaylor]

Heretic!!! And you saved $7950 in the process of getting a better picture!

I much prefer my J-8 lens than the Leica Apo Cron. The extremely light, clickless aperture ring allows me to get shots I never could with the Cron. It prevented me from capturing the decisive moment.

 

[NB23]

Really? Prevented to that point?

I much prefer my J-8 lens than the Leica Apo Cron. The extremely light, clickless aperture ring allows me to get shots I never could with the Cron. It prevented me from capturing the decisive moment.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Really? Prevented to that point?

Some people are special.
I on the other hand am doomed, my J8 has click stops. No "decisive moment" for me!
Unless of course I use a J9, or a 5cm Sonnar, or a Summitar.
Then I'll be johnny on the spot!

 

[Huss]

Really? Prevented to that point?

Yes. Really. That's the whole point of capturing The Decisive Moment. It waits for no-one. Any slight delay, any hesitation, and it's gone. Gone. (gone gone gone)

 

[NB23]

Yeah but as far as I know, an aperture ring has nothing to do with a decisive moment. Focus ring, maybe, but even then it doesn’t prevent a decisive moment.

Yes. Really. That's the whole point of capturing The Decisive Moment. It waits for no-one. Any slight delay, any hesitation, and it's gone. Gone. (gone gone gone)