Less messy chemical storage for community darkroom

[Rainbow]

Hi all,

We've currently got ID-11, multigrade developer, Ilford rapid fixer and Ilfostop available for people to use in our darkroom.

As it stands, the ID-11 and rapid fixer are kept in a 5l bottles (at 1+0 and 1+4 dilutions respectively). Users are instructed not to dilute either of these, to return them to their respective bottles when they're finished, and to mark off how many films they developed on the bottle of ID-11. Rapid fixer is just tested periodically.

There's a few issues with this system I need to iron out. The first being people forgetting to mark off their rolls (myself included) on the ID-11, and the second (the subject of this post) being that the bottles are hard to pour from. They dribble and make a mess.

I tried to solve this problem by getting a relatively inexpensive 500ml syringe with a hose attachment but some people don't seem to use it, and just end up making a mess instead; letting developer dribble down the sides of the bottle. It's not exactly an easy thing to use, so I don't blame them.

I'm wondering what solutions there might be out there to this problem. How do you decant your chemistry?

Today in a coffee shop, I realised they have a glass water decanter with a metal tap. "Pouring chemistry back into one of those wouldn't be an issue as the opening is huge!", I thought. Assuming whatever metal the tap's constructed of is fine, maybe a few of these would work? HDPE ones from China are available on eBay...

 

[MattKing]

5 litre bottles can be a challenge to work with, but I find that with large bottles it really helps to also have:
1) good, large capacity wide mouth funnels to use when pouring chemicals back into the bottles; and
2) largish graduated containers to always use as an intermediate container.
I use 1 litre and 2 litre Paterson containers (good handles, wide mouths, good pouring spouts) to transfer chemicals back and forth. They are fully and carefully rinsed between each use.

 

[Rainbow]

1) good, large capacity wide mouth funnels to use when pouring chemicals back into the bottles

Something I missed in the OP; we have four funnels of varying sizes from tiny to HUGE but alas they see too little use...

 

[Saganich]

Engineering controls to compensate for bad or inconsistent behavior...hmm..tough one. The trouble is there will always be a couple people who do "unexpected" things and it's really tough to have a system that manages those outliers. Are you dealing with a few outliers? If so then I recommend starting with punishment, which sounds easy, but requires evidence and determination, which may not be palatable to the culture. Another method is to increase the "customer service" aspects of the system by taking on more work at the management level like using one-shot methods for all chemistry and centrally bulking all waste for silver recovery. This makes it easier on the user but harder on the folks keeping the chemicals fresh.

 

[138S]

Collective chem is a problem in special if wanting archive standards.

A way to ensure a reliable fixing is a double bath fixing, and probably the single way to ensure a quality work in a collective environment.

If you have an ample sink for the trays then you may place some permanent rings in it to take the bottles. With the bottles with ample opening you may pour the chem directly, if something falls in the sink, no problem...

We have a garden Nozzle in the sink (800x2600mm) :



When we finish we spray all with it, including chem bottles. My view is that in a collective darkroom "standard chem" has to stay always in the sink.

Our DR is private, we are two people with no coordination issues, but we are to invite some photographers often, we have been requested to allow them work there. In our case they are people knowing what they do and they will probably go with their own chem.

For a less controlled environment I'd place an IR surveillance recording webcam, this has two advantages, in one side some people behave different when they feel be observed, and the other side is that you will know from where problems come, this is good because you may teach them how to do things OK, like traffic cameras do

 

[mgb74]

There are the large containers with floating lids spiqots that are designed for chemicals. I feel one shot chemicals are the way to go in a community darkroom for developer.

I would have stop bath in fixer dumped into separate containers after use and added back to the working solution containers by darkroom staff. Indicator stop bath can be used and fixer can be tested before going back into the working solution container.

 

[Bill Burk]

I'd think what I do would work in any environment. Stock D-76 (or you can do ID-11) in quart bottles. Student takes a bottle mixes 1:1... have full bottles only on the chemical storage and have half-bottles out in the work area, maybe a place near the sink. So your chemical storage is fresh full bottles and any halves are scattered around. When they are empty or you think they've been lying around too long, dump and wash them out and use them for the next mixed fresh batch.

 

[mshchem]

Everyone gets their own bottle of developer.

 

[Rainbow]

I feel one shot chemicals are the way to go in a community darkroom for developer.

The darkroom is part of a university building, I'm tempted to go down this route for all but one reason; "how are you disposing of your chemicals?". Somehow I don't feel "we pour developer down the drain" is something they'd be happy to hear (even if it is incredibly dilute). There's a chemical disposal bin that our waste is meant to be taken to.

I think I'll try follow Bill Burk's advice and leave solutions out in smaller volume and keep our larger volumes in locked cupboards. This is already done with fixer concentrate and solves any problems with cross contamination; if someone spoils a litre of paper dev it's nowhere near as much a biggie as if they ruined an entire 5l. It'd also be easier for people to pour from.

Acquisition of some nice 1L/500ml bottles is now on my to-do...

Will likely leave these on the wet bench:
1l ID-11 @ 1+0
500ml Multigrade developer (concentrate)
1l Ilfostop (working solution, not concentrate)
1l of rapid fixer @ 1+4

 

[Luckless]

The darkroom is part of a university building, I'm tempted to go down this route for all but one reason; "how are you disposing of your chemicals?". Somehow I don't feel "we pour developer down the drain" is something they'd be happy to hear (even if it is incredibly dilute).

maybe go for the more 'diplomatic phrasing' and reply with "in accordance with the latest industry standards and environmental protocols"... And then hope no one is bored enough to ask follow up questions?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Sounds like you need an hour or two of instruction on how to deal with the chemicals in the darkroom as well as a good darkroom monitor to ensure that policy regarding use, record keeping and cleanliness are enforced. That's likely cheaper than containers... Really, good darkroom practice and chemical handling should be insisted upon.

Doremus

 

[Rainbow]

Am recruiting some more hands to help manage the darkroom this year, I'd like to be able to keep a closer eye on its use and maintenance but I simply don't have enough time to do it justice alone. Ergo the want to engineer out some bad habits.

 

[pentaxuser]

Rainbow, you don't say if you are in Sheffield, England or Sheffield, Alabama. If Sheffield, England I'd contact Leamington College in Leamington Spa, Warwickshire. It had and maybe still has a darkroom for students on night school courses and provided all chemicals which were disposed of by the darkroom tutor. I am sure it will give good advice on disposal but if you are part of the university then Isn't there likely to be someone there who has responsibility to oversee chemical disposal that you can speak to?

If it is Sheffield in the U.S. then ignore the above

pentaxuser