Less aggressive alternative for Rodinal?

[Usagi]

I like rodinal with some films.

The problem is the temperature. I have to develop at 24 degree celsius (75F) or rather at 25 degree celsius.

Rodinal, even when diluted to 1+100 is way too aggressive developer with some films, giving very short developing times.

So options are either found a way to lessen the activity of rodinal without diluting it more or found some developer which gives a tonality and apparent sharpness of Rodinal (1+50), but gives longer developing times at temperatures around 25 degree celsius. The developing time near 8-9 minutes would be really good as N development.


What should I look for?

 

[RobertV]

The best temperature for Rodinal development is 18-20 degrees C. Outside this interval you have much more grain and short developing times.
You have to cool down with ice cubes then.

In case you're talking on ATL (Jobo) development, I can only say that Rodinal will loss acutance when doing rotary development and therefore is less suitable for this.

ATL machines will start temperature at 24 degrees C and up.

best regards,

Robert

 

[Anscojohn]

I like rodinal with some films.


What should I look for?

*******
Edwal FG-7.

 

[Athiril]

When it gets 24c ambient water here, in 1+100 (at least for stand/long times) I dont change my times.

1+100 only has short times with some specific films, Acros, Pan F come to mind, as doe most films under 100 speed.

To reduce it's activity, add a little bromide, or a touch of benzotriazole, you'd have to experiment to find your own times with that, I don't have a starting point for you.


Is there a reason you dont want to dilute further? I'm a fan of it, and it works fine.

 

[Usagi]

I would not like to go dilutions above 1+100 because my feeling is that I don't get same gradation with highly diluted rodinal as I get with 1+50.

Haven't done any scientific comparisons thought. It's only a feeling. I used 1+200 as my standard dilution about twenty years ago with APX-25 and APX-100.

The adding bromide sounds good. Any hints how much I should add it?
How much does it increase the compensating effect? (found some information from http://www.unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html )

The developing times are easy to find with 4 or 5 sheets of films. So that's not a problem.


Edit: the reason for 24 degree celsius is simply the ambient temperature. My aparthment has temperature around 25-26 degree celsius all the time. No matter whether it's cold like -20 degree celsius outside or hot summer day...

 

[ic-racer]

T-max developer.

 

[fschifano]

T-Max developer is pretty fast at 75F too, so it's not really the best choice for the OP's needs. Development times for TMax films in TMax developer in standard working strength solution at 75F (24C) run between 7 1/2 to 8 minutes for N development. Other films (Tri-X 320, Tri-X 400, Plus-X) show development times from 3 1/4 to 6 1/2 minutes for N development. Kodak hasn't published development time data for other manufacturer's films, though I'd expect them to be similar. They are in just about every other MQ and PQ developer, and there's nothing radically different about TMax developer. It's just another PQ developer.

While there is some wiggle room for N- development with TMax films, there's none for the non-Tmax films. So now you're back to higher dilution rates to slow things down. Unfortunately, Kodak's J-86 doesn't document development times for TMax developer at higher dilutions, so you're back to experimentation.

 

[removed account4]

you might try a developer with glycin in it.
glycin likes temperatures between 73-75º .
i'm fond of ansco 130 and use it at around 75º,
but some people have suggested it is too contrasty
for their taste ... so YMMV

 

[Dave in Kansas]

Where do you find development times for Ansco 130?

Dave

 

[removed account4]

Where do you find development times for Ansco 130?

Dave

hi dave

kind of a long story but the short of it goes like this ...
i found a can of gaf universal developer propping a window open where i used to live,
i used it
loved it
and pined for it years later ... ( and still do ! )

i was told that it was ansco 130 ( gaf, ansco, agfa, what a mess ! ),
so i just started to develop my film in it

1:5 ( more like 1:10 ) for about 8 mins

i have done everything from continual agitation, to stand development
to mixing it with coffee .. it is a great substance ( even when it is over a year old !! ) ...

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

What should I look for?

D-76
D-76 1:1 if you want longer times and sharper grain

 

[fschifano]

You can't argue with that! Good old D-76. It's been working for millions of photographers for decades. It can be diluted up to 1+3 if you like; but again, you're pretty much on your own for development times for higher dilutions.

 

[Dave in Kansas]

Jnanian,

Thanks for the info. I think I recall reading the post you wrote sometime back about the GAF developer you found.

I have Ansco 130 that I use for print developer and understand it can also be used on film, but it's not popular these days. I thought it would be fun to try.

Thanks again,

Dave

 

[patrickjames]

While fine suggestions in general, none of the above will look like Rodinal. I would suggest Beutler's high acutance developer ( http://www.jackspcs.com/fdnb.htm ) or similarly FX-1 ( http://www.jackspcs.com/fx1.htm ). When Agfa went kaput, I was using this and getting developing times in the upper teens with Agfapan films and found them to be very nice in gradation and compensation. It is well worth your effort and they are very simple to mix yourself.

Alternatively you could go to a 2 part developer to divorce yourself from temperature considerations. You could try Thornton's two bath for starters which is a sharp developer, or any other metol/low sulfite two bath. I have been experimenting with my own little two bath concoction lately on the side, but I would hesitate to give the formula at this point.

 

[alanrockwood]

I wonder if you could tame Rodinal at higher temperatures by lowering the pH of the developer a bit.

 

[sandermarijn]

Edit: the reason for 24 degree celsius is simply the ambient temperature. My aparthment has temperature around 25-26 degree celsius all the time. No matter whether it's cold like -20 degree celsius outside or hot summer day...

That sounds pretty terrible.

But why no just use a tempering bath at slightly below 20 degrees? I do it all the time in winter, to go from 13 to 20. There is no difference doing it the other way round, just make sure you have enough ice cubes (or cold enough tap water).

13 is pretty cold, yes

ps. don't forget to pre-wash with 20 deg water or otherwise the heat capacity of the tank will drive up thetemperature of the developer back towards 24 as soon as you pour it in.

 

[mablo]

My "darkroom" (loo) is precisely 24C warm during the summer months. Last summer I used a lot of D-76 in 24C thus avoiding cooling down the developer. Works very well IMO.

 

[MartinP]

I'd be another person to stick with the Rodinal at 20C, or a bit less, and with a pre-wash to cool the tank (so long as a pre-wash doesn't cause problems with Rodinal?). For cooling you could try a washing up bowl, cool water (as near 20C as possible, from tap and/or fridge) and a few of those cooler-box things that you freeze in the fridge for final adjustments. The rest of us have to warm things up by a few degrees, so why not cool them down instead ! If your apartment is a very stable environment then you can even get to the point where you have a cooling-plan that is the same every time - quite convenient really

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

(so long as a pre-wash doesn't cause problems with Rodinal?).

No problems pre-soaking when using Rodinal with any of the films I've tested.

 

[removed account4]

Jnanian,

Thanks for the info. I think I recall reading the post you wrote sometime back about the GAF developer you found.

I have Ansco 130 that I use for print developer and understand it can also be used on film, but it's not popular these days. I thought it would be fun to try.

Thanks again,

Dave

pleasure's all mine dave,
just sharing the joy

john

 

[Athiril]

Out of curiosity, what time are you finding for 1+100 with what film to be too short for your liking @ 24c?

 

[Usagi]

Out of curiosity, what time are you finding for 1+100 with what film to be too short for your liking @ 24c?

The films like Acros 100, Adox Pan 25 and Adox CHS 25 Art. So it concerns (mostly) only slow films.


If there's very rodinal like developer with similar gradation charasteristics, the cooling water bath is the only choice.

Ofcourse, I should ask myself that why I use rodinal? Yes, it gives nice tonality and sharpness but do I have compared it really with other developers under similar circumstances? No.
Some films like APX-25 and APX-100 I have never even tested using any other developer than Rodinal.


Perhaps one of the major factor after all is the longevity of Rodinal. It can be stored for years..
And it's very economical developer.

Couple test rolls of Fp4+ developed in rodinal and d76 should give some real information instead the feeling that I have.

 

[Rick A]

Have you tried using a water bath tray cooled with ice cubes to maintain a cooler temperture. Where I live I have the opposite problem of maintaining a higher temp, so I use a warming tray. Stick with whatever developer you are comfortable using. If you are searching for a change, I do not recommend any developer that gives times shorter than 5 minutes no matter the temp. I might recommend Pyrocat HD for the higher temps, but approach with caution, and test it out before you commit anything important to it.

 

[BetterSense]

Dead Link Removed

These reusable ice cubes are really handy for cooling off developer solutions without diluting the developer as they melt. Very good purchase imo.

 

[Usagi]

Some tests with water bath.. Bath was about 3 litres and temperature 19 degree celsius initally. The developer etc were 20 degree.

After development test which took approx 20 minutes, the developer's temperature was 21 degree and water bath's temperature 20 degree.


Another test showed that with water bath's initial temperature set to 18 degree celsius, it kept developer around 20 degree for half of an hour.
Then the temperature begun to rise.


It's not easy to have a warm aparthment :| (althought it's nice during cold winters)


I have used pyrocat HD a lot, but haven't done practically any tray development with it. In 24 degree celsius, it gives developing times around 8 - 15 minutes depending on film when developing with motorized constant agitation.