lenses to cover 5x12

[TheFlyingCamera]

Anyone know what in a wide to super-wide lens will cover 5x12? I think the 210 Graphic-Raptar I have will cover with some movements, but I'd like to know if there is anything out there wider that would cover. Figure a 330mm image circle to be on the safe side.

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

If you want REALLY, REALLY wide, you might try the 110mm Super Symmar XL. Even though the spec says it only has a 288mmmm image circle, it actually covers 8x10 - which is pretty close to 5x12. I use mine as an ultrawide on 4x10.

For something that's still REALLY, REALLY wide, but offers enough coverage for movements, look for a tiny 130mm f12 Rodenstock Weitwinkel Perigon. It's absolutely diminuative (130g in a Copal No. 0), but covers 8x10 with movements.

For something really, really wide, look for a 141mm f18 Servies V Protar.

For something really wide, and REALLY, REALLY expensive, look for a 150mm Super Symmar XL, a 150mm f8 Nikkor SW or a 155mm f6.8 Grandagon-N.

For something really wide, but affordable and portable, look for a 6¼" (159mm) f12.5 Wollensak Ext. W.A. Anastigmat. Cover 8x10 with movements

Kerry

 

[Dave Wooten]

tiny lens big coverage

113 mm f/18 protar

about the size of a quarter

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

113 mm f/18 protar

about the size of a quarter

Dave,

Will the 113mm Series V really cover a 330mm image circle? I had one years ago (a "late" coated, shutter-mounted B&L sample), but never tried it on anything bigger than 5x7. It might come close. The Series V Protatrs are reputed to cover up to 110 degrees at small stops. To cover a 330mm image circle, a 113mm lens would need about 111 degrees of coverage. So, it's in the ballpark at small stops and no movements.

The 130mm Perigon is just as small (maybe smaller) and covers 8x10 with quite a bit to spare (usable image circle in the 380mm+ range).

Kerry

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

Scott,

If you think a 6¼" Wolly might be in your future, you may want to read this thread as it discusses the age of Wollensak lenses, coatings, shutter options, prices etc. and includes a few sample photos of various versions of this lens.

Kerry

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Scott,

If you think a 6¼" Wolly might be in your future, you may want to read this thread as it discusses the age of Wollensak lenses, coatings, shutter options, prices etc. and includes a few sample photos of various versions of this lens.

Kerry

Kerry- many thanks for the info. Any ideas on where I could get my hands on one? It would make a nice dual-purpose lens for my 8x10 and the envisioned 5x12.

 

[Dave Wooten]

Dave,

Will the 113mm Series V really cover a 330mm image circle? I had one years ago (a "late" coated, shutter-mounted B&L sample), but never tried it on anything bigger than 5x7. It might come close. The Series V Protatrs are reputed to cover up to 110 degrees at small stops. To cover a 330mm image circle, a 113mm lens would need about 111 degrees of coverage. So, it's in the ballpark at small stops and no movements.

The 130mm Perigon is just as small (maybe smaller) and covers 8x10 with quite a bit to spare (usable image circle in the 380mm+ range).

Kerry

Kerry I will double check this weekend.....A few years back I did some bar room portraits with the 113 protar, I still have the lens somewhere around here, it is a B and L lens....it is not in a shutter and was stopped down I think to 32....I used an 8 x 10 camera, 4 and 5 second exposures....It could have been pulled (bellows) a bit for the portraits seconds dont remember, however I will put it on the 8 x 10 tomorrow and check infinity

 

[claytume]

I've used a 120 Super Angulon on 5x12 and it does cover but fall off is severe, bad enough that I wouldn't try it again without a centre filter.

You don't say whether you're contact printing or enlarging, I enlarge and find the 159 Wollensak very soft on the outer third to make decent enlargements. Contact prints would possibly be ok depending on subject. The same goes for the 165 Angulon and many other "classic" lenses.

Clayton

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I've used a 120 Super Angulon on 5x12 and it does cover but fall off is severe, bad enough that I wouldn't try it again without a centre filter.

You don't say whether you're contact printing or enlarging, I enlarge and find the 159 Wollensak very soft on the outer third to make decent enlargements. Contact prints would possibly be ok depending on subject. The same goes for the 165 Angulon and many other "classic" lenses.

Clayton

At this point in time, contact printing would be the only way I'd go with it. I don't have space (most importantly) or budget for an 11x14 enlarger. If I wanted to enlarge, I'd have to scan, and I don't have a scanner that can scan anything that big.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I saw something on the LFinfo website about a Nikon 150 SW having an excess of coverage for 512. Anyone ever use one of those, or know about their availability?

 

[claytume]

I saw something on the LFinfo website about a Nikon 150 SW having an excess of coverage for 512. Anyone ever use one of those, or know about their availability?

The 150 SW will do the job easily.............but for contact printing would be overkill, size and cost.

 

[claytume]

At this point in time, contact printing would be the only way I'd go with it. I don't have space (most importantly) or budget for an 11x14 enlarger. If I wanted to enlarge, I'd have to scan, and I don't have a scanner that can scan anything that big.

For scanning you can scan 2 halves and stitch together, very easy and flawless.

For enlarging you can stretch a 4x5 or 5x7 enlarger out to the size you need which is what I did. I print my 512's around 36" long, at that size they're only a 3x enlargement and very very sharp. I shoot 6x17 roll film as well, when you put identical prints from identical negs side by side the difference is significant.

Clayton

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

Kerry- many thanks for the info. Any ideas on where I could get my hands on one? It would make a nice dual-purpose lens for my 8x10 and the envisioned 5x12.

Scott,

eBay would be the most likely source. They show up fairly frequently there. Look for a later (post WWII) coated sample in a decent Rapax or Alphax shutter.

Kerry

 

[clay]

Kerry has my old 130/12 perigon that covers 5x12 nicely. There is some dude in Germany that still has a stash of new-old-stock perigons in barrels (at least as of 3-4 years ago)

Another lens that has not been mentioned that has huge coverage is the 150/9 Zeiss Dagor. It will cover 10x12! So 5x12 is no sweat at all. They are not all that common, but are very sharp and nice lenses with some monster coverage.

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

I enlarge and find the 159 Wollensak very soft on the outer third to make decent enlargements. Contact prints would possibly be ok depending on subject.
Clayton

Clay,

Is your 159 Wolly and f9.5 or f12.5 version? While the f12.5 version is the simpler design and cost less new, it actually has substantially more coverage than the f9.5 version.

Also, keep in mind the 159mm f12.5 Wolly was made from the early 1920s until sometime in the 1960s. Sample-to-sample variation can be substantial. The first 8x10 lens I ever owned was an ancient 6¼" f12.5 Wolly in a Regno shutter. It was, of course, uncoated and very flare prone and suffered the soft corners you describe. My later samples are much better. Still not up to the performance of a modern wide angle, but plenty good for contacts and small enlargements (~2x). Again, this may vary from sample-to-sample.

Probably the most highly regarded classic wide angle in this focal length range is the 158mm f6.5 Cooke Series VIIb. Unfortunately, they are also very hard to find. I keep hoping Cooke will introduce an updated (multicoated, standard Copal shutter) Series VIIc to fill the gap between the current, huge, expensive 8x10 wide angles and the older classic lenses with limited coverage, lesser coatings, finicky shutters, etc. I'm lucky that my 150mm Graphic-Kowa covers 4x10 adequately and has great performance. However, it falls short of 5x12. So, that doesn't do Scott any good.

Kerry

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

I saw something on the LFinfo website about a Nikon 150 SW having an excess of coverage for 512. Anyone ever use one of those, or know about their availability?

Nikon recently discontinued this lens (and all their other LF lenses), but you might still be able to find one new from existing inventories. B&H currently lists it as "back-ordered" on their web site. MPEX has one in 9+ condition on their web site for $1195. While that's a lot of money, it's a good price for this lens (sold for about $2000 new) and less than the ones I've seen sell on eBay lately. I haven't used the 150mm Nikkor SW, but I have used the 90mm f8 and 120mm f8 Nikkor SWs and they were awesome wide angle lenses. I'm sure the 150mm Nikkor SW would be spectacular on 8x10/5x12. However, keep in mind it's a big, heavy lens that might not fit through the opening in your front standard, and even if it does might be too heavy for your camera to handle.

Kerry

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

Another lens that has not been mentioned that has huge coverage is the 150/9 Zeiss Dagor. It will cover 10x12! So 5x12 is no sweat at all. They are not all that common, but are very sharp and nice lenses with some monster coverage.

I haven't used the 15cm f9 Zeiss Dagor, but several years ago I had a 12.5cm f9 Zeiss Dagor that was one sweet little lens. The outer surfaces had been retrocoated and it had been mounted in a new Copal No. 0 by the late S.K. Grimes. It just missed the corners of 8x10, but was marvelous on 5x7. If you could find a 15cm Ziess Dagor, it would be great for 5x12. I actually left it out of my original list (along with the 158mm Cooke Series VIIb) due to the rarity and usually very high price.

Kerry

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Another lens to think about - what about the Kodak Wide-Field Ektar 190mm? I've seen some spec sheets that have it coming up JUST shy of an 8x10, but I don't know if that's a conservative estimate or if that's a "pushing it" estimate. Would the 190 be too close in perspective to my 210?

 

[claytume]

Kerry has my old 130/12 perigon that covers 5x12 nicely. There is some dude in Germany that still has a stash of new-old-stock perigons in barrels (at least as of 3-4 years ago)

Kerry

can you report back sometime on the perigon.......I was interested in it but a little late.

I too would be interested in a modern Cooke 158, I think there's a reasonable market out there for this lens.

Clayton

 

[claytume]

Clay,

Is your 159 Wolly and f9.5 or f12.5 version? While the f12.5 version is the simpler design and cost less new, it actually has substantially more coverage than the f9.5 version.

Also, keep in mind the 159mm f12.5 Wolly was made from the early 1920s until sometime in the 1960s. Sample-to-sample variation can be substantial. The first 8x10 lens I ever owned was an ancient 6¼" f12.5 Wolly in a Regno shutter. It was, of course, uncoated and very flare prone and suffered the soft corners you describe. My later samples are much better. Still not up to the performance of a modern wide angle, but plenty good for contacts and small enlargements (~2x). Again, this may vary from sample-to-sample.

Kerry

Kerry

the 159 I have is a 9.5 and a very late version, coated in a Rapax. Yes the 12.5 has better cover, I'd be interested to hear someone test the 2 side by side to see how they pan out.

Clayton

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

well, I just scored a Wollensak 159 F12.5, with the purple dot, single coated, off a kind soul here on APUG. I'll throw it up on the 8x10 when it arrives and see how it behaves. The killer for the 5x12 format is NOT the camera (although that's not cheap). It's the film holders - $275 each!

Thinking of which, I think it might have been in your article in View Camera, Kerry, but it may have been elsewhere, I recall reading something about the Shen Hao 5x12 needing a minor modification to make the film holders fit accurately. Am I remembering this correctly, or am I smoking weed unbeknownst to myself and wandering arond in a fog?

 

[claytume]

well, I just scored a Wollensak 159 F12.5, with the purple dot, single coated, off a kind soul here on APUG. I'll throw it up on the 8x10 when it arrives and see how it behaves. The killer for the 5x12 format is NOT the camera (although that's not cheap). It's the film holders - $275 each!

Thinking of which, I think it might have been in your article in View Camera, Kerry, but it may have been elsewhere, I recall reading something about the Shen Hao 5x12 needing a minor modification to make the film holders fit accurately. Am I remembering this correctly, or am I smoking weed unbeknownst to myself and wandering arond in a fog?

Did you buy a Shen Hao?

I have one and S&S holders, the camera was made for the holders and should be a perfect fit. Sandy will tell you all about it.

As far as I know the AWB holders should be the same size, I don't know if anyone else is making these holders apart from the original Koronas.

Clayton

 

[colrehogan]

Would a 150 mm APO-Symmar cover? Scott, so you are joining the group of 512 shooters on apug soon?

 

[claytume]

Would a 150 mm APO-Symmar cover? Scott, so you are joining the group of 512 shooters on apug soon?

no Diane.....it wouldn't get close........the Super Symmar XL will..........big difference in cost.

Clayton

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

Thinking of which, I think it might have been in your article in View Camera, Kerry, but it may have been elsewhere, I recall reading something about the Shen Hao 5x12 needing a minor modification to make the film holders fit accurately. Am I remembering this correctly, or am I smoking weed unbeknownst to myself and wandering arond in a fog?

Wasn't anything I wrote. I have never reviewed any 5x12 camera. So, I definitely have no knowledge specific to the Shen-Hao. Perhaps you are thinking of my 4x10 article where I mentioned that not all 4x10 holders fit all 4x10 cameras and gave a breakdown of who makes holders for which cameras.

Sandy did send me one of his 5x12 holders (nicely made) along with the 4x10 holder that he is supplying in the Wisner 4x10 size to test for my article, but I never tested the 5x12 holder in a camera.

Kerry