Lens hoods for large format lenses

[film_man]

Hmmm I'm probably over thinking this. I should probably just make sure I learn how to not get the dark slide into view.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Applying rise is different from tilting the camera upward. I could draw a picture, but I suggest you try it. Rig up a shade or lens hood (even a piece of cardboard will do) so it is just above the field of view with the camera zeroed. Now apply front rise. The field of view moves up (that's the point of front rise) and now the shade will be poking into the field of view.

Yes. I thought about when I went to sleep and it makes sense to me now. When you move the lens, a different part of the image circle is used. That part may have blockage from the hood that didn;t show up on the film plane but does now that you moved the lens. Now I got it. Thanks.

Question. If I use the film holders dark slide or hat, am I correct in thinking that the vignetting would show up on the opposite corner first? So if for example, the sun is in the upper left and I put my hat there, I should look in the lower (right=edit) corner to check for vignetting? What's normally there without vignetting? With vignetting?

Does vignetting change based on the aperture setting? Do I check with the aperture fully open or set down to the stop I will be shooting?

 

[grat]

Applying rise is different from tilting the camera upward. I could draw a picture, but I suggest you try it. Rig up a shade or lens hood (even a piece of cardboard will do) so it is just above the field of view with the camera zeroed. Now apply front rise. The field of view moves up (that's the point of front rise) and now the shade will be poking into the field of view.

It would depend on the lens, and the size of the shade. In the case of the bellows-style shade above that clips onto the Cokin P mount, the angle of the bellows and the ability to adjust the distance of the shade would work for most lenses, I suspect.

 

[neilt3]

Yes. I thought about when I went to sleep and it makes sense to me now. When you move the lens, a different part of the image circle is used. That part may have blockage from the hood that didn;t show up on the film plane but does now that you moved the lens. Now I got it. Thanks.

Question. If I use the film holders dark slide or hat, am I correct in thinking that the vignetting would show up on the opposite corner first? So if for example, the sun is in the upper left and I put my hat there, I should look in the lower (right=edit) corner to check for vignetting? What's normally there without vignetting? With vignetting?

Does vignetting change based on the aperture setting? Do I check with the aperture fully open or set down to the stop I will be shooting?

If the sun it top left in front of you , it is bottom right on the ground glass .

Check for vignetting with the lens stopped down .
But if you can see it wide open , you know it'll only get worse .
Think of it this way , your at a zoo taking a picture through the railings .
Wide open you can't see them because your focussed on something thirty feet away , and the light going to your film passes around the bars . Stopped down , their now more into focus , and the light has to pass through them , so you see them on your final image .
If something is on the edge of you image , be it a lens hood , a hat or your hand , wide open it might just appear to be a bit shaded if you can even tell it's their .
Stopped down , it could be clearly seen as a hat / hand etc . Irispective of format or of movements are used .
Try it .

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Thanks Neil. That all makes sense. So now I got another procedure. I have to check my hat out before I put the film holder in. Then remember where I put my hat afterwards when I'm ready to shoot. By the way, what does the little image look like in the corners with and without vignetting?

 

[neilt3]

What little image in the corners ?
Vignetting is just dark corners .

Regards vignetting and using your hat or hood ;
If your using a lens shade , with no camera movements - check you haven't extended it to far . That's all .
Using a hood with tilt - never had vignetting .
Using a hood with shift - check when stopped down for vignetting after you compose .

If your not using a hood , don't worry about vignetting . If their is any , it's down to your lens . Just be aware the lenses image circle might not be big enough if your trying a lot of shift .

If your using your hat/darkslide/ hand etc , don't worry about vignetting , because your not using a hood ( presumably)

 

[neilt3]

As long as the sun is well out if the frame , you just hold your hat untill the lens is just put in the shade , then your hat will be well out of the shot .
Or not !

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I must be missing something. Why would movements cause a problem? If the compendium shade is attached to the front of a lens, and you let's say tilt the lens down, well, the shade moves down too. If it didn't block the lens before moving the lens, how does it block it afterwards?

To expand on what others have posted: You have it correct that only a small part of the image circle is used when making an image with a view camera and most lenses. Extra coverage allows us to use front movements without running out of coverage. However, all the extra light bouncing around inside the bellows when there are bright areas in the field of view, even if they are not in the part of the projected image we choose to put on the film, can cause a lot of flare. Shielding as much of this as possible in whatever position the lens is in requires a flexible lens hood, i.e., a compendium or something with barn doors.

With the camera in "zero" position, the film uses only the center portion of the image circle. Ideally, in order to cut out as much extraneous light as possible, a lens hood would impinge on the field of view of the lens to the point just before vignetting of the actual image portion of the image circle being used. This would position the shade at its longest possible point for whatever lens you were using.

Now, however, if you need to add some front or rear rise or fall, or need swing or tilt on the front standard, you'll end up getting parts of the image circle onto the film that would be blocked by the lens shade when it is positioned optimally for the lens in "zero" position, i.e., it would vignette part of the image you now want on one side. Therefore, you would have to widen the lens shade till it no longer vignetted by racking it back, in the case of a compendium bellows or opening the barn doors a bit. This lets some extraneous light from the less-vignetted sides in, but it can't be helped. When working at the extremes of the image circle, you really can't block any extra light coming from the image circle, all you can do is use the shade to keep light from outside the lens' field of view from striking the front lens element.

For a fixed-body camera that has no movements, lens are designed to just cover the film format, so lens shades can easily be designed to be the optimum size for any particular focal length. Their purpose, then, is not to keep extra image-circle light from bouncing around inside the camera, rather to keep light from outside the field of view from falling on the lens surface and thereby causing flare, just the same as working with an LF lens at the extreme of its image circle.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

What do you do if you're using a graduated ND filter? What's the best way to attach a compendium and flexible hood lens?

Any recommendations for a Chamonix 4x5 camera?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Alan,

Many filter systems (Lee, Cokin, et al.) have collapsible bellows shades with slots for filters. They attach to the lens via step-up rings. I don't use them. I prefer glass screw-in filter. I hate ND filters, so I have no need for a system that accommodates them and I don't have to carry all that stuff around in the field. My filter wallet with six filters does the job just fine.

Best,

Doremus

 

[neilt3]

What do you do if you're using a graduated ND filter? What's the best way to attach a compendium and flexible hood lens?

Any recommendations for a Chamonix 4x5 camera?

See the links I gave in post #4 .
That's what I use when I'm using slot in filters such a ND grads .

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Have a look at one of these ;
https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/p-size-bellows-lens-hood---black-11227-p.asp

It slits into a Cokin P size holder and can be used whilst using filters . Extends for longer lenses , leave more flattened for wides and do on .
I had one for years using it on 135,120 & 5x4 .
You can get one that fits the Cokin Z-pro filters from Speedgraphic .
https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/lens...ee_cokin_zpro_hitech_100_nisi_v6/29309_p.html

They fold flat and all you need is the holder and filter adapters for your lenses .
But if you use slot in filters , you already have all this .

So you screw on the bellows holder to round filters and then use the slot for graduated ND filter?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

My 4x5 has 75mm, 150mm, and 300mm with step up adapters for take my 77mm round filters and Cokin adapter including grad ND from my Mamiya RB67 medium format kit. Unfortunately, I have a Nikkor 90mm f4.5 with Schneider IV center filter for the 4x5 that has a 105mm front thread. So I need polarizing and contrast BW filters including neutral ND larger than 105mm just to handle this one lens. What's you suggestions?

 

[neilt3]

No .
You screw the adapter onto the lens .

You slot the filter holder onto the adapter .
The holder holds 1 ,2 or 3 filters , depending on what you bought or configured .

You slide the square filters into , such as a yellow filter for B&W photography .
You can slot an ND grad in front of that , if you wish .

Then the hood slots into the last slot .

See here ;
https://cokin.com/en/13-filters

If I'm using the slot in filters , I'll probably fit the hood .
If I'm not using the slot in filters I tend to use my hat to shade the lens .

 

[neilt3]

My 4x5 has 75mm, 150mm, and 300mm with step up adapters for take my 77mm round filters and Cokin adapter including grad ND from my Mamiya RB67 medium format kit. Unfortunately, I have a Nikkor 90mm f4.5 with Schneider IV center filter for the 4x5 that has a 105mm front thread. So I need polarizing and contrast BW filters including neutral ND larger than 105mm just to handle this one lens. What's you suggestions?

Non of the Cokin filter systems go up to 105mm filter threads .

The Z-Pro size would do the rest though .
Do you already have all the filters you need / want ?

If you have , then you'll need to work around them .

 

[John Earley]

Dark slide as mentioned above.
Ya gotta put it somewhere. Might as well shade the lens with it!

I have Toyo, Wista and Calumet compendium hoods and because they are a pain to use/carry I always end up using the dark slide when in the field. If I am inside, I may occasionally use a compendium hood to control the light that might his the lens.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Non of the Cokin filter systems go up to 105mm filter threads .

The Z-Pro size would do the rest though .
Do you already have all the filters you need / want ?

If you have , then you'll need to work around them .

I have a B+H glass circular filters in 77mm" red, orange, yellow, 81B, polarizer and the Cokin attachment for the grad ND square gel. Maybe I should ge=t rid of the 90mm Nikkor with 105 center filter (105mm) or replace it with a 90mm that can accept the filters I have. Of course htat Nikkor 90 is a great lens and I already have the CF. RIght now, if I need a filter than I;ll use the 75mm rather than the 90mm. Choices Choices.

 

[neilt3]

I have a B+H glass circular filters in 77mm" red, orange, yellow, 81B, polarizer and the Cokin attachment for the grad ND square gel. Maybe I should ge=t rid of the 90mm Nikkor with 105 center filter (105mm) or replace it with a 90mm that can accept the filters I have. Of course htat Nikkor 90 is a great lens and I already have the CF. RIght now, if I need a filter than I;ll use the 75mm rather than the 90mm. Choices Choices.

All my lenses work fine with the Cokin Z-Pro filter system , so I don't have that problem .

Personally , if I had your set up and I was really happy with the 90mm , which seems to be the case , I wouldn't get rid of it .

If I wanted to hold an ND grad in front of it I'd get one that almost as big as the filter thread in your centre spot filter , which would probably be the Z-Pro , then when I've composed the image on the GG screen , I'd hold it in position with a few bits of blue tack .
And if the sun's hitting it , shade it with your hat .

I've hand held them in front of SLR lenses that were extreme wideangle ones that can't hold filters . Not something you can do with large format , unless you've got an assistant to hold it while you put your film holder in and remove the darkslide and everything else that needs doing !

Another thought is you could get one of the cheap holders for the Z-Pro filters , drill two holes in the top corners to either put two hooks in to hang it off your lens or a peice of string , and slide the filter in this .
As long as the centre hole in it is big enough to avoid vignetting you should be o.k .
You might need to reduce it from being a three slot holder to a one stop holder for the same reason as the slots on the side might stick out too far .

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Thanks Neil for the ideas. I'll work with what I have right now to see how it goes. I just started 4x5 so I'll see what happens. Then I'll make a decision.

 

[Neil Poulsen]

I have a Sinar F series camera, and I use a Lee system, compendium lens hood. I have adapters for all my lenses, etc. It works just fine. It also gives the me the ability to use 4"x4" Wratten or Lee resin filters close to the front of the lens, though I'm most apt to use a glass filter and attach the lens hood adapter to the filter.

Since the Lens hood is square, it's advisable to load a 4:5 ratio mask onto the front. Mine has holders for this purpose. If the mask is square with a 4:5 ratio cutout, it can be placed in the holders in either portrait or landscape orientation. For longer lenses, one can make a mask with a smaller cutout. (The Lee compendium lens hood might not be long enough.)

I also have an elaborate lenshood made from a Norma intermediate standard with a large, Toyo G compendium mounted on it. But, the Lee system is more compact and more flexible.

 

[Jarin Blaschke]

I suggest a "french flag", a standard piece of equipment for cinematography. You can set to your specific frame after setting movements and focus:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=french flag&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma

I used to just use the dark slide, but after it appeared on a couple of negatives, I just bought a french flag.

jarin

 

[toyotadesigner]

What about a retractable rubber lens shade, which can be folded in 3 positions, eventually plus a DIY flag? The rubber lens shade is around 10 Euro, the parts for the flag including flexible arm around 20 Euro. This combo is a very flexible and space-saving setup. In addition, you can cut several cardboards in different sizes to fit your needs.

 

[Neil Poulsen]

What camera do you have?

 

[toyotadesigner]

An Arca Swiss 6x9 F-Line.

 

[GKC]

I'd be more worried about the mechanical shutter than the lens itself.

Get a clamp for your tripod, and mount a brolly on it-- cover you, and the camera.

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Umbrella-Bracket-Photography-Accessory/dp/B07LGLZRNW

Steve O'Nions (also a Uk photographer) uses one (specifics at 4:10):

I fear it wouldn't take much wind to get this whole contraption airborne!