Leicas Made in Germany?

[Pioneer]

I owned a nice Leica thread-mount camera that made awesome photos. Later I found out it was a Russian knock-off. The photos all sucked after that.

I have a Sears Tower Type 3, an American branded, Japanese copy, of a German design. I'll have you know that it takes awesome photos when I use Kodak film, passable photos when I use Fuji film, and really lousy photos when I use Adox film. For some reason I can't get the Ilford stuff to work at all!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

what matters is how QC is done; not where it is done. the rest is make believe.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

the modern term for 'overengineering 'is' robustness', and it is a good thing.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

You are better off looking at Boeing if you want the best of American engineering.

Yes, and don't look at Hanford. Don't even go near it.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I have a Sears Tower Type 3, an American branded, Japanese copy, of a German design. I'll have you know that it takes awesome photos when I use Kodak film, passable photos when I use Fuji film, and really lousy photos when I use Adox film. For some reason I can't get the Ilford stuff to work at all!

I have a Japanese copy of a German design, currently fitted with a Soviet version of a German lens made with captured Zeiss equipment.
It takes nice pictures with Kodak film, I wish I had some Agfa to put in it.

 

[hdeyong]

E. von H., the cars were bought new at the same time, owned, driven and serviced by the same people, side by side.
I know, having worked around cars for most of my life, that GM and the rest made some real boners. But, so have the others.
I worked for quite a while at a large truck dealership that sold Mercedes products, and was left thoroughly unimpressed. One of their engines was nicknamed "the grenade".
I just get a little tired of Mercedes being held up as such a big deal, because all of my experiences with them over a spread of about 35 years have convinced me that they're really not a lot better than most other products out there. But for the price, they certainly should be.

 

[AgX]

the modern term for 'overengineering 'is' robustness', and it is a good thing.

I thought these two terms were contrary to each other.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I thought these two terms were contrary to each other.

You're right, they are.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

E. von H., the cars were bought new at the same time, owned, driven and serviced by the same people, side by side.
I know, having worked around cars for most of my life, that GM and the rest made some real boners. But, so have the others.
I worked for quite a while at a large truck dealership that sold Mercedes products, and was left thoroughly unimpressed. One of their engines was nicknamed "the grenade".
I just get a little tired of Mercedes being held up as such a big deal, because all of my experiences with them over a spread of about 35 years have convinced me that they're really not a lot better than most other products out there. But for the price, they certainly should be.

There you go.

 

[hacked - sepiareverb]

How can new Leicas claim to be made in Germany when the body, and, I presume, shutter, are made in Portugal?

I suspect for a similar reason as you claim to be from NE Ohio?

"Assembled in Germany" takes more engraving, and, I presume, that might drive the price up.

 

[chip j]

Shit, the top plate is engraved in Portugal, and I read at least one report of it falling off! Ken Rockwell (and others I have read) have had many problems w/the M7 shutter. And this Leica QC?

 

[Pioneer]

Shit, the top plate is engraved in Portugal, and I read at least one report of it falling off! Ken Rockwell (and others I have read) have had many problems w/the M7 shutter. And this Leica QC?

Hey! I am certainly not Ken Rockwell but my M7 runs great. The shutter is quieter and more accurate then any of my other Leica film cameras, and the top plate is still firmly planted where it was when I bought it. Besides, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything Mr. Rockwell writes, I know he doesn't either. I don't own a Mercedes and I don't own a Cadillac and I am not even clear what that has to do with cameras anyway. To the best of my knowledge neither of them were ever built by Leica.

I don't know whether Leica is any more reliable than any other brand of camera. But I do know that you won't figure that out by giving us a lecture on what your neighbor does or does not drive. The most reliable camera I have ever owned is a Pentax K1000, which is still going strong 40 years after I bought it. But that doesn't mean that the M7 won't also be going strong when 40 years rolls around. I am sure if you ran a poll you would locate just as many Leica owners that are willing to swear that their Leica has run non-stop for 40 years or more. I just hope that I am still able to use both of them in 40 years, and that is certainly not a condemnation of their reliability!

I am also pretty sure I will require a lot more service between now and then than either of them will. And I still won't own a Mercedes or Cadillac.

 

[Steve Smith]

Where something is made is irrelevant. How it is made is important.


Steve.

 

[Alan Gales]

I saw the M7 video, and they sure made no mention of either making or putting a shutter in. And the "MP" stands for "Mechanical Perfection"? Leica makes a BIG thing out of "Made in Germany". I can quite accept my Contax G system being produced w/Zeiss test machinery and supervised by Zeiss people, but it says "Made in Japan"!

I used to own a Contax 139 which I bought brand new. I also owned five Zeiss lenses for it. Two of my lenses were made in Germany and three were made in Japan. The Japanese lenses were said to have been assembled in Japan using German made Zeiss glass and Japanese made lens barrels. All I know for sure is that all five lenses were excellent.

Zeiss (Contax) had a partnership with Kyocera (Yashica).

 

[250swb]

You are better off looking at Boeing if you want the best of American engineering.

I see what you mean, as Boeing have factories and research facilities all around the world I guess that makes the Dreamliner their 'Portuguese Leica', something else that can also be blamed on foreigners ;-)

This is just an absurdist thread from the start though, taking a very narrow insular view of the world and trying to make a case against Leica from it. Almost any mechanical or consumer product will have sub-assemblies or materials from other parts of the world. Leica use Copal shutters in their digital FF cameras, they arrive built, not as a kit of parts. But a shutter is not a camera, just like an imported piece of rosewood is not a guitar, it has to go to a specialist to be made into something else. And just remember, when Leica were at their most vulnerable in the 1970's and 80's they were confident enough of their manufacturing standards that they could proudly engrave 'Made in Canada' on many of their high end bodies and lenses, some of which are now the most sought after.

Steve

 

[gsgary]

I see what you mean, as Boeing have factories and research facilities all around the world I guess that makes the Dreamliner their 'Portuguese Leica', something else that can also be blamed on foreigners ;-)

This is just an absurdist thread from the start though, taking a very narrow insular view of the world and trying to make a case against Leica from it. Almost any mechanical or consumer product will have sub-assemblies or materials from other parts of the world. Leica use Copal shutters in their digital FF cameras, they arrive built, not as a kit of parts. But a shutter is not a camera, just like an imported piece of rosewood is not a guitar, it has to go to a specialist to be made into something else. And just remember, when Leica were at their most vulnerable in the 1970's and 80's they were confident enough of their manufacturing standards that they could proudly engrave 'Made in Canada' on many of their high end bodies and lenses, some of which are now the most sought after.

Steve

Steve am i right in thinking the 50mm F1 Nocti was made in Canada

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[250swb]

Yes spot on, the f/1.0 Noctilux was fully Canadian, designed by Mandler.

Steve

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Yes spot on, the f/1.0 Noctilux was fully Canadian, designed by Mandler.

Steve

A few of my long time Leica using friends tell me the Canadian Leicas were probably the best ones built. I have no way of verifying that, but they are people that have been photographers for many decades, making a living off of their skills and tools.

 

[gsgary]

A few of my long time Leica using friends tell me the Canadian Leicas were probably the best ones built. I have no way of verifying that, but they are people that have been photographers for many decades, making a living off of their skills and tools.

I hope so, i have a M4-2 and 70 year anniversary M4-p but the film counter has gone on my M4-2 but it is a common problem the first M4-2's had a few problems but mine is from the better batch

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2

 

[E. von Hoegh]

"German Engineering" is I think more a product of the ad agency than anything.
Take a look at a Citroen Deux Chevaux some time - quite a bit of the cleverest engineering I've ever seen. The ealy Peugeot GP cars were way ahead of anything else. The American Miller racers were known as "the American Bugatti" and with good reason. The English marine chronometers were and are in a class of their own, as are the highest grade London guns. Swiss watches. Italian sports cars, from when that term actually meant something.
Many countries have produced superlative engineering. The only area Czechs take a backseat to anyone is in self promotion, perhaps.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

'made in Japan'means a lot to me. my Nikonsare a beacon of mechanical and electronic engineering; like them a lotand just as reliable as my Hasselblads.Most big-name companies have a multi national staff anyway, so, it is no longer an ethnic issue.the ethnic blend of talents is he secret to thr success of diversity.

 

[Craig Swensson]

You want something designed and made in the country of origin? Buy a Jeep then report back after 6 months.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

'made in Japan'means a lot to me. my Nikonsare a beacon of mechanical and electronic engineering; like them a lotand just as reliable as my Hasselblads.Most big-name companies have a multi national staff anyway, so, it is no longer an ethnic issue.the ethnic blend of talents is he secret to thr success of diversity.

Canon offered a five year warranty starting in 1950.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

You want something designed and made in the country of origin? Buy a Jeep then report back after 6 months.

Those things really are embarrasments...

 

[andreios]

"German Engineering" is I think more a product of the ad agency than anything.
Take a look at a Citroen Deux Chevaux some time - quite a bit of the cleverest engineering I've ever seen. The ealy Peugeot GP cars were way ahead of anything else. The American Miller racers were known as "the American Bugatti" and with good reason. The English marine chronometers were and are in a class of their own, as are the highest grade London guns. Swiss watches. Italian sports cars, from when that term actually meant something.
Many countries have produced superlative engineering. The only area Czechs take a backseat to anyone is in self promotion, perhaps.

I'm not sure what are you pointing at, but I always remember a sentence from one of E. Waugh's characters - "Czechs make good coachmen. Nothing more."