Leicaflex SL2 vs Canon F1

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 14, 2021

woodlandSerenade said:
For that matter, what would an F-1 do that your A-1 cannot? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing against spending money altogether, but if your A-1 hasn’t let you down so far, why not invest in glass instead?

The difference between A-1 and F-1 is so significant, in every way, the two don't compare. Not about making a better photograph, but handling. I never liked A-1. Traded my Minolta X-700 for A-1 and regretted it 2 weeks down the road. F-1 is just a different class to me.

And as for New F-1. I'll say it again: what's up with that electronic part? It is all as reliable as earlier versions, yet handles different (much better IMO) and I do like it more (not being alone either). I was in same boat until I found one at right price. Had I not found it, I'd would have never known what it was like to use it. But I like all three F-1, so New is just a tad ahead, but not that far.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

GabrielC said:
I don't want the New F1 because it's a hybrid between a mechanical and electronic camera, I just want a lightmeter, not more.

The New F1 is mostly a mechanical camera. For speeds B, 90, 125, 250, 500, 1000, and 2000, it is a fully mechanical camera with a lightmeter, not more.

As for the viewfinder, i'd say the New F1 has the most remarkable viewfinder i've seen on a japanese camera (although i haven't seen the one in the LX); and compared to the Leicaflex and Leicaflex SL of a friend, i prefer the New F1's viewfinder. Haven't tried the SL2 specifically.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

GabrielC said:
I am well satisfied with my Canon A1 when it comes to photography, I'm just scared of the electronics in the long run, pretty hard to repair, not possible to create new parts/circuit boards. I'm just 21yo and thus I need something I can carry along for years to come, since I'm not sure there will be a new film camera in the market soon, or tbh, ever

The A-1's electronics are very durable and resilient. But any electronic camera needs periodic manteinance so the inside switches get cleaned. Otherwise you get malfunctions.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

momus said:
Would you see any difference between Leica R glass and Canon? Yes, but it depends on the lens. Canon made nothing like the R50 and R 90 Summicrons,

1. The cheapest FD lens, the Canon New FD 50/1.8 indistinguishable from a Leica Summicron-M 50mm f/2 (note, M, which arguably has more potential for image quality due to shorter flange-film distance.) once aperture is closed down a little bit.

http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Canon_FD_lenses_and_Leica_M/00_pag.htm

Judge for yourself.

2. If you can aford a R 90 summicron you can afford a 85/1.2 L Canon, which is a legendary lens too.

momus said:
lens coatings will be better on the Leica, etc.

Are you aware that the Leica R lenses remained single-coated for many years whereas the rest of manufacturers already had multi-coated lenses?

woodlandSerenade · Dec 14, 2021

VTLD said:
The difference between A-1 and F-1 is so significant, in every way, the two don't compare. Not about making a better photograph, but handling. I never liked A-1. Traded my Minolta X-700 for A-1 and regretted it 2 weeks down the road. F-1 is just a different class to me.

To be honest, I’ve never used an A-1. I could see the plastic body being polarizing. Between my F-1n and New F1, I have to say I prefer using the F-1n. The viewfinder is somehow much easier for my astigmatic eyes to focus with than that in the newer camera. The priority modes and electronically-regulated slow shutter speeds in the New F-1 are definitely welcomed additions.
I don’t think that OP would be disappointed with any of the Canon F-1s

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

Paul Howell said:
For vanity stand out in a crowd, for me a Swiss Alpa, 10 or 11, 4 lens 28m, 35mm, 50mm 100mm and 200mm, all stamped with the Alpa stamp. I've seen a few in the field, had one for week, a friends of mine sent an 11e for a week, his wife inherited from an uncle. Anything you can say about a Leica SL you can say in spades for the Alpa.

This man knows about cameras.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

GabrielC said:
It is only to switch/have a mechanical backup. I'd rather not have a lot of electronics in something I buy. My engineering courses have proven that electronics are not something I want to have faith in.

Sorry but this is just Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Electronics can be made as reliable as an engineer wants them to be. The elecronics inside a camera like the New F1, for example, are ultra reliable and back on an internet forum of camera repairmen one of them pointed out that in many many years of servicing F-1New cameras, he only had to use a spare circuit board once.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

VTLD said:
The difference between A-1 and F-1 is so significant, in every way, the two don't compare. Not about making a better photograph, but handling. I never liked A-1. Traded my Minolta X-700 for A-1 and regretted it 2 weeks down the road. F-1 is just a different class to me..

The F-1 cameras (all of them) are much better made than the A-series cameras (all of them), and yes, they're on a different class altogether.
Though, I like how the A-1 handled really. Nice machine which I used for making money as a photographer decades ago.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

woodlandSerenade said:
To be honest, I’ve never used an A-1. I could see the plastic body being polarizing.
s

Note that the camera has a metal body. It's only the top and bottom that are plastic (plus the grip and battery door).

Inside, it's mostly metal, save for some nylon parts.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 14, 2021

flavio81 said:
The F-1 cameras (all of them) are much better made than the A-series cameras (all of them), and yes, they're on a different class altogether.
Though, I like how the A-1 handled really. Nice machine which I used for making money as a photographer decades ago.

I don't disagree. In my case going from that lovely Minolta X700 (which I own again) to A-1 was very disappointing. I thought of the switch as an upgrade, and found myself beating myself until pain let me forget about it.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

VTLD said:
I don't disagree. In my case going from that lovely Minolta X700 (which I own again) to A-1 was very disappointing. I thought of the switch as an upgrade, and found myself beating myself until pain let me forget about it.

To each its own. Decades ago i had a Canon AE-1 and my friend had a Minolta X700. I found the X700 "plasticky" compared to my AE-1 which I felt was better made and sounded nicer. The X700 of course had a much brighter viewfinder, which I appreciated.

benjiboy · Dec 14, 2021

The only thing I miss about the Canon A1 that I sold a few years ago as opposed to my Canon F1s, with my advancing age, is the lightness of it's weight.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 14, 2021

flavio81 said:
To each its own. Decades ago i had a Canon AE-1 and my friend had a Minolta X700. I found the X700 "plasticky" compared to my AE-1 which I felt was better made and sounded nicer. The X700 of course had a much brighter viewfinder, which I appreciated.

But you know, X700 is as solid as one could hope. The A-1, first thing that I disliked, was battery door/grip not staying solidly in place, sort of having some small but detectable play, it was off putting. I don't remember if I managed to get passed it. But I sold it as soon as I managed.

GabrielC said:
I completely agree, I bought&CLA'd a Xenotar Rolleiflex to have much better quality, and It is the only medium format I'll own at some point. It just feels perfect to me. And I want to find the 35mm equivalent of mechanical perfection. I don't really like rangefinders, though I have a canon L2, it collects dust and isn't that enjoyable

Have you considered Leica R6? R6.2 while at it? It is mechanical shutter just to get that out of the way.

flavio81 · Dec 14, 2021

VTLD said:
But you know, X700 is as solid as one could hope. The A-1, first thing that I disliked, was battery door/grip not staying solidly in place, sort of having some small but detectable play, it was off putting. I don't remember if I managed to get passed it. But I sold it as soon as I managed.

Yes, that was just an impression. Minolta makes great cameras, even though I own none simply because I already spent enough money with Canon FD, Canon EF, Nikon, Pentax M42, Pentax K, Pentax 6x7 and Bronica ETR lenses (!!)

Les Sarile · Dec 14, 2021

GabrielC said:
It is only to switch/have a mechanical backup. I'd rather not have a lot of electronics in something I buy. My engineering courses have proven that electronics are not something I want to have faith in.

How about the Canon FTB? Readily available and relatively inexpensive.

Selection 69 by Les DMess, on Flickr

Canon - and others, pretty much went electronics after the mid 70s. Here are some of the fully mechanical bodies I have that you might consider.

I don't have any Leicaflex SL2 but apparently it has a CDS metering cel which is not very responsive compared to the more current silicone types used in the A1 and others from about '74 on up.

beemermark · Dec 15, 2021

woodlandSerenade said:
Just to do my part in quelling GAS…
Coming from someone with no less than five 35mm camera systems, there is no practical reason to own more than one system unless you are collecting. If you are already invested in the FD system, you might as well keep your lenses and get an F-1n (but not a New F-1, as it isn’t fully mechanical).

As to whether the SL2 and its lenses are better than their Canon counterparts, who cares? There are very few people that could determine from a direct comparison whether a photo was taken with a Canon or Leica lens (and even fewer if you’re using an L lens). Even if the Leica lens is 10% sharper, or has fewer aberrations than the Canon lens, does it really matter? Have you ever felt that your current lenses have let you down?

I can say that I’ve been nothing but impressed by the results from my FD cameras and lenses. Any upset I’ve experienced has come from myself in the form of camera shake (should’ve brought a tripod!) or missing focus (should’ve taken my time!)

For that matter, what would an F-1 do that your A-1 cannot? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing against spending money altogether, but if your A-1 hasn’t let you down so far, why not invest in glass instead?

Smarter words never spoken. As a mechanical engineer I love mechanical things. The SL2 is a marvelous piece of work and probably has the best viewfinder of any SLR I've used. My number one system (in terms of use, number of bodies and lenses) is the Nikon system, followed by Leica RF. I say stick with the what you have. Tons of excellent Canon FD lenses available at reasonable prices. Leica SLR lenses aren't cheap until you try to sell them - Of all the Canon bodies I've owned they have all failed except my F1 new. I think the original F1 would probably work forever and being a simple mechanical design easy to service.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 15, 2021

Les Sarile said:
Leicaflex SL2 but apparently it has a CDS metering cel which is not very responsive compared to the more current silicone types

Responsiveness may be true, yet it is an extremely accurate arrangement in SL2. This would not and should not be a discounting argument for SL2. Plus the view that finder gives makes it really difficult to put it down. Cannot get a feel for it until handled in person. I'd still pick F1 over it for a number of reasons.

Canon FTB is a fine camera, but far away from what OP asked for. If anything from Canon's line up, I'd rather suggest EF instead to remain in line with OP's request.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 15, 2021

beemermark said:
Of all the Canon bodies I've owned they have all failed except my F1 new. I think the original F1 would probably work forever and being a simple mechanical design easy to service.

You make it sound like Canon made crap prone to failure, which so far from truth, not even worth discussing. Perhaps there was a better way to say what you wanted to say.

Plus, New F1 is at least as durable as earlier two versions. Servicing is an issue now for any older camera, all mechanical or not. And there are many reasons why quite a few prefer New F1 over its siblings. The key to making a choice is to handle all three. First F1 differs from F1-N mainly in advance lever. This alone may sway a person in either direction. New F1 changes a lot and ... sounds different. Owning one of them, ultimately often leads to owning all three. Preferring one over any other is still a hair splitting exercise.

eli griggs · Dec 15, 2021

Both F1n (the second F1n) and the F1N AE are fully mechinal cameras, with various metered and unmetered finders.

Both are probably the best equipped film camera systems ever made, and are every bit as usable as when they were at the hight of their release.

Both take FL and FD Canon lenses AND M42, Pentax is my favorite and Leica, and other systems lenses with Canon made or third party adapters, though infinity is confined to certain lens models.

The A-1 was/is a great camera, electric, with magnetic shutter release, I paired this camera with the F1N AE for the action shooting of Ballet and Modern Dancers in the 1980's, both with fast motordrive and L series glass, including the 1.2 L 85mm and neither missed a beat in handling and quality images in Ecktachrome and Tri-x 400, though I did use a spotmeter for high contrast shots.

I personally feel the Canon F1 models, the Ftb ql and the A1 are all good working cameras, though I've no had an A1 for years now, buying the all metal F series cameras instead.

The Leica is more of a problematic system, lacks the flexibility of the Canons and their workhorse stamina and is more of "On a good day... " piece of kit.

IMO

beemermark · Dec 15, 2021

VTLD said:
You make it sound like Canon made crap prone to failure, which so far from truth, not even worth discussing. Perhaps there was a better way to say what you wanted to say.

Plus, New F1 is at least as durable as earlier two versions. Servicing is an issue now for any older camera, all mechanical or not. And there are many reasons why quite a few prefer New F1 over its siblings. The key to making a choice is to handle all three. First F1 differs from F1-N mainly in advance lever. This alone may sway a person in either direction. New F1 changes a lot and ... sounds different. Owning one of them, ultimately often leads to owning all three. Preferring one over any other is still a hair splitting exercise.

My experience is of one. But do an internet search. A-1, Ae-1, T series all have a high failure rate with shutters and giving error codes. I didn't mean to imply the F1 new had issues, just the opposite. I have a very well used one and it works fine. The point I meant to make is I would only invest in any of the F1 series with all the FD lenses.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 15, 2021

beemermark said:
My experience is of one. But do an internet search. A-1, Ae-1, T series all have a high failure rate with shutters and giving error codes. I didn't mean to imply the F1 new had issues, just the opposite. I have a very well used one and it works fine. The point I meant to make is I would only invest in any of the F1 series with all the FD lenses.

Point taken. T series, outside of T-90 was an ugly period in Canon's history. Sadly T-90 eventually joined the failure department, which mostly had to do with display going AWOL rendering the whole camera useless.

On F1 I only stated that all three are super fine cameras. As some have already stated their level of "discomfort" with New F1's electronic section, I felt the need to counter that. None of the three deserved discussion in failure rate department. In fact the opposite is the case for all of them.

benjiboy · Dec 15, 2021

Remember, we are talking about the failure rate in Cameras that are more than thirty years old, which in the case of the Canon A series is far longer than they were designed to last for.
All the F 1 models had a Titanium shutter that was designed to last at least for 100,000 exposures, but like all consumer products were not envisaged to last for ever.

eli griggs · Dec 15, 2021

I found both F1 models to have top notch metering with finder screens that would change point of reading profiles, such as a spot or center weight ballance.

I've used "A Series" cameras since '77 - '78 and the only failure I've had was the "AE-1 Squeak", which does no need professional repair. I have Canon AE-1s and Program modes now and fully expect them to continue working well into the future.

The only real issue with the F1n and Ftb ql, I've had is a sticky mirror lock-up.

These cameras were built by folks that took pride in their resulting products and it shows.

IMO.

Les Sarile · Dec 15, 2021

VTLD said:
Canon FTB is a fine camera, but far away from what OP asked for. If anything from Canon's line up, I'd rather suggest EF instead to remain in line with OP's request.

Note the OP's line I quoted as that is the reason I suggested the FTB and not the EF.

BTW, appreciate the enthusiasm for the Leicaflex SL2's "extreme" meter accuracy but curious how you qualify that. Afterall, meters are either accuracte or not . . .

faberryman · Dec 15, 2021

Les Sarile said:
BTW, appreciate the enthusiasm for the Leicaflex SL2's "extreme" meter accuracy but curious how you qualify that. Afterall, meters are either accuracte or not . . .

Be aware that the Leica SL2 meter requires the long discontinued 1.35v mercury battery (PX625), so you will need to use a Wein Cell MRB625 zinc-air battery, 1.4v hearing aid battery and o-ring, or an MR-9 adapter that reduces the voltage for a silver oxide 386 or equivalent battery from 1.55v to 1.35v for accurate meter readings. Further details here:

https://www.smallbattery.company.org.uk/sbc_px625.htm

Leicaflex SL2 vs Canon F1

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