Leica wannabe owner has a few questions...

[Joachim_I]

As I said "If you are a serious shooter look for an M5. It was designed for photographers not collectors and dilettantes."

So you are suggesting other Leicas (M3,M2,M4,M6,MP,M7) were designed for collectors and dilettantes? In which of these two categories would you put Cartier-Bresson? Was he more a collector or a dilettante?

By the way, I really like the M5. But I have never seen such an opinionated appraisal of this camera.

 

[2F/2F]

So you are suggesting other Leicas (M3,M2,M4,M6,MP,M7) were designed for collectors and dilettantes? In which of these two categories would you put Cartier-Bresson? Was he more a collector or a dilettante?

By the way, I really like the M5. But I have never seen such an opinionated appraisal of this camera.

The camera most associated with Mr. Cartier-Bresson is the Barnack Leica, not the M...and none of them were designed for him.

 

[Joachim_I]

The camera most associated with Mr. Cartier-Bresson is the Barnack Leica, not the M...and none of them were designed for him.

So what? You want me to name a list of famous Leica M photographers who dared not to use the M5? The gentleman to which I replied clearly suggests that a serious photographer would only consider the M5. I gave one example of a serious photographer who used another M camera (M3 in this case; just look it up). I could give many more examples but I feel it's a waste of time.

 

[mhcfires]

Easy! M2!

IMO, it is the most camera for the least money in a Leica M. Has a viewfinder for a 35mm lens. It's simple. It is all you need if 35mm is the widest lens you will use.

I agree that the M5 is perhaps the best all-around user camera of the bunch, but the problem with them is that they are not cheap. Not enough better than an M2 to warrant the price difference, IMO.

The M2 is AWESOME! of all the cameras I have used or owned, the M2 has to be the best. I must admit I haven't used an M6, but when you have been spoiled by an M2, why spend the extra money on a camera which may have more bells and whistles. I have a good digital camera, a D80, not the best, but a good camera. It sits on the shelf most of the time. I think it is great for shooting pictures of the cat, she won't stay still. The M2 and the IIIf are my workhorses. I love them, they are the greatest. I'm just a spoiled, retired amateur, I don't make a living with these things, but I appreciate good tools and these are the best.

 

[lns]

If money is no object, I would get an MP. It's got the meter, the quick loading, a good viewfinder; it's the top of the pyramid.

Otherwise, I'd go for the M2 because it has clean framelines for 35mm and 90mm lenses, your main interest. The M4 is everyone's favorite if you want to go a little more modern than the M2 but still stay vintage. It has quicker loading than the M2, though I find the M2's loading quick enough. Both the M2 and the M4 are meterless.

You can get accessory winders for some Ms, perhaps for all. An internet search would give you specifics. I've never used them, never seen the need. If you want rapid film changes, the M4 and later models would be slightly faster than the M2 or M3. The only automatic exposure Leica is the M7. The M6TTL and the M7 have TTL flash. Most people don't use flash with the Leica, but if you do, you're going to find those two cameras better. I personally don't favor the M6 or M6TTL, or the early M7, cameras because of the viewfinder blackout issue, but some people have no problem with it. I mention it as a caution, especially since you wear glasses. The only way to determine if it's a problem for you is to try it. Newer M7s have the flare-free viewfinder.

-Laura

 

[2F/2F]

So what? You want me to name a list of famous Leica M photographers who dared not to use the M5? The gentleman to which I replied clearly suggests that a serious photographer would only consider the M5. I gave one example of a serious photographer who used another M camera (M3 in this case; just look it up). I could give many more examples but I feel it's a waste of time. But then, I am only a collector or dilettante since I use several Ms and none is a M5. I am out of this discussion.

I was saying who the hell cares who used what. Yeah. The post to which you were replying was ridiculous...but name dropping with attitude, thinking that it actually proves anything, is even more so.

Where is your list of "famous Leica M photographers" (new category of photography, I guess) "who dared not to use the M5"? ...and when you do bring it, people will ask, "But what does it mean?"

Make your argument without using famous photographers to prop up your points.

 

[removed account4]

i posted the link to cameraquest cause the pressure plate
on garry w's leica has the image of the film he passd through it
not to drop names, just to show a cool image of a cool camera
if it was a lomo, i would have posted the same image ..

 

[2F/2F]

i posted the link to cameraquest cause the pressure plate
on garry w's leica has the image of the film he passd through it
not to drop names, just to show a cool image of a cool camera
if it was a lomo, i would have posted the same image ..

 

[2F/2F]

John, funny thing is that I have a camera or two somewhere with those sprocket hole marks on the pressure plate. Forgot which one. Perhaps one of my F-1s.

...and no, you did not drop a name in a $hitty manner to try and make a point, which is what riled me.

 

[elekm]

M6 is an excellent camera. Quality construction with accurate metering. If you want autoexposure, then go for the M7.

The viewfinder should be fine when wearing eyeglasses. Some people have said that the rangefinder patch will "white out" under certain conditions. I never had a problem with it.

 

[mablo]

All M-series Leicas (in good condition!) are great shooters. Whichever you choose make darn sure that the viewfinder is in good condition, especially with the oldies M3 and M2. Every Leica repair person will tell you that the viewfinder is by far the most complex and expensive part to repair. I would advice against *Bay lottery when buying a Leica. Deal with a reputable Leica dealer or buy a recently CLA'd example from classifieds here, Rangefinderforum or L-forum.

Lenses you use with your SLR won't necessarily be the same you use with a rangefinder camera. Leica is designed for 35mm or 50mm lens. You really need only one good lens. If you use spectacles 50mm is much better for you than 35mm.

 

[makanakijones]

Buy a Leica M6.
I own a M7 model and I whish I had bought a M6.

 

[Shan Ren]

I shoot with a M6, a 35 and, sometimes a 50. I like the meter in the camera, even if I ignore it most of the time. Use it for long enough and you will learn to "autofocus". You can learn, quickly for some, by using the focus tab, and understanding its position, to focus without using the viewfinder. Great for quick grab shots.

I also have an old 3f I still use sometimes, but find it a bit small.

Best advice, try a few. Play with them. The "greatest" camera in the world will be useless if it doesn't feel right in your hands, or if the controls (I admit, limited on an M6) don't work for you.

 

[Rol_Lei Nut]

M6 is an excellent camera. Quality construction with accurate metering. If you want autoexposure, then go for the M7.

The viewfinder should be fine when wearing eyeglasses. Some people have said that the rangefinder patch will "white out" under certain conditions. I never had a problem with it.

I'll second that.
While my M6 viewfinder could do with a cleaning now (it isn't crystal clear), I've never had a problem with the rangefinder patch not being visible enough.

Also, as I've mentioned several times before, I don't find the infamous bottom loading to be the problem many make it out to be.
Only time I get annoyed with it is when I rewind a partially used film (or want to leave the leader out anyway), then getting the cassette out can be a bit fiddly.

 

[Xmas]

Newer M7s have the flare-free viewfinder.
Laura

Well I thought only M3, M2, M4, M5, early M4-2 and MP had the flare free rangefinder spots, late M7 as well?
From late M4-2 on you needs a special tool to adjust the rangefinder.
If you need to change film fast in a M2 or M3 there is a quick load kit, this makes either camera sort of comparable with a M4 or later, for loading.
M7 and MP cannot use IXMOO, late M6 need a mod to use.
M4-2 and later don't feel the same, and the script on top plate is terrible
Noel
P.S. If you are gonna shoot B&W or C41 get a M2 and either summaron f/2.8 35mm or CV classic (LTM or M) f/2.5 35mm, with a lot of practice you should be able to maintain a high sequence speed, but at 6 foot both eyes open, with practice you shoot to catch the champagne cork in the air, ever time, the shutter delay and sensitivity is different from a SLR...

 

[gamincurieux]

They are pretty easy to load once you get used to it. The only problem is finding a place for the bottom while it's off. Camera, bottom plate, old roll of film, new roll of film, and only two hands for all of that.

Put the bottom in your mouth while loading, easy, your hands are free then, and have the camera up-turned at the end of the strap & resting against your belly for loading..... no don't slobber all over it like a dog, just hold it in your lips. Loading is easy! Sorry if that's already been suggested, I've not read all the way through the thread

 

[Terrence Brennan]

Gee, what a load of really good info, after less than 24 hours after I made my post!

My thanks to all who have posted AND who will post. I was originally going to PM the APUGgers who replied, but, time constraints being what they are, I will have to cop out and make this posting instead.

I should have mentioned that my Nikon Fs have the plain, non-metered prisms, and that I haven't owned a camera with a working TTL meter in 32 years. To tell the truth, I haven't felt the loss; I swapped my last camera with a TTL meter, a Nikomat-EL, for a Graphic View camera and accessories in 1978.

I use a Gossen Lunasix-3 meter, usually in incident mode, when I use a meter at all. I estimate the exposure, and, on rare occasions, have ACTUALLY produced properly exposed frames; I was printing one of them last night, as a matter of fact. I had to search in my lamp stash to find a 75-watt bulb for my D-6!

As I tell a painter and sculptor friend of mine, who is attempting to learn photography, when one wants to calculate proper exposure, one must FEEL the light!

 

[Tim Gray]

Put the bottom in your mouth while loading, easy, your hands are free then, and have the camera up-turned at the end of the strap & resting against your belly for loading..... no don't slobber all over it like a dog, just hold it in your lips. Loading is easy! Sorry if that's already been suggested, I've not read all the way through the thread

Haha, yeah that's what I do most of the time.

To the original poster - sounds like you can skip the meter. Or just get an M6 and leave out the battery.

 

[removed account4]

John, funny thing is that I have a camera or two somewhere with those sprocket hole marks on the pressure plate. Forgot which one. Perhaps one of my F-1s.

...and no, you did not drop a name in a $hitty manner to try and make a point, which is what riled me.

sounds like you could sell off the sprocket hole'd pressure plated cameras
for a boatload on eBoink. " see, just like garry! "


- john

 

[Xmas]

Hi

It is decades since I used a F with a meterless prism, nostalgia, if you are happy with a separate meter Leitz made two clip on ones, selenium and CdS & nowdays CV make modern clip on one. Or you can stick with the Gossen, as I do.

The M2 and M3 are cheaper then the M5 or M6 classic cause they have no meters, but for touch and feel they are unsurpassed by the (new) MP. They will accept a wider range of lenses, than either of the above.

The M3 finder is close to 1:1 and for a sole 5cm shooter is unbelievably good.

The M2 finder is 0.7 but with practice you can still use both eyes if you range find with the right eye. If you are left eye dominant I'd still recommend using the right eye, however unnatural it may seem, this also allows you to hammer the lever for the next frame if you are in a hurry.

Otherwise you need the TomA, lever wind base which is a low volume product (for an M2 only) or a M4-2 instead af a M2, and which leaves you with more freedom of choice (Leica or TomA).

There are 6, CV lenses in 35mm, Canon LTM lenses (from 60s), Zeiss ZM, Konica, and oodles of Leica lenses, all are good enough for close in reportage - f/ numbers from 1.2 to 3.5, the 1.2 is big some of the others are diminutive, even the f/1.4s.

Noel

 

[rpsawin]

I use a Gossen Lunasix-3 meter, usually in incident mode, when I use a meter at all. I estimate the exposure, and, on rare occasions, have ACTUALLY produced properly exposed frames; I was printing one of them last night, as a matter of fact. I had to search in my lamp stash to find a 75-watt bulb for my D-6!

As I tell a painter and sculptor friend of mine, who is attempting to learn photography, when one wants to calculate proper exposure, one must FEEL the light!

All M's have their champions as well as their detractors. IMHO your best bet is to handle as many different bodies as you can and see which feels best. I have M2, M6 and an MP. Each has a different feel. I enjoy each and all of them. I find the M2 to be my favorite camera. It is a joy to use. Since you are using an external meter and already guess at exposure I think the simplicity of the M2 would be a great fit.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[gamincurieux]

By the way, does aNYONE KNOW IF YOU CAN GET A BRASS TOP PLATE FOR A REGULAR m6 ttl? iT'S NOT THE SAME TOP PLATE AS FOR AN m7, IS IT?

Sorry, caplock

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I will use Screwmount Leicas at my all remaing life. I believe smaller the viewfinder pupil , better the composition. I never used a lightmeter , I decide with my eyes. I can really cry for a Leica. I lost my job and the Leicas and now I have only money for copies. It would be great to have a ww2 , submariner leica copy from ebay. I am an archaeologist and remember what Agatha Christie says for her archaeologist husband , she says , his interest equivalently increased to her while she is geting older !

Mustafa Umut Sarac
Istanbul

 

[filmguy]

I recently purchased a M6 and have been very pleased with it.

 

[John Koehrer]

So then, what are the significant operational and quality differences, in the current MP/M4P/M6/M7 cameras? How do they compare with the classic M3/M4 cameras? How about ease of loading? What about the availability of accessories such as winders/motor drives, et cetera?

Any comments or personal input and/or experiences would be welcome. I can run a Google search and read info from a video screen, but what I am after is input from shooters who use them regularly. All information will be gratefully received!

Operational differences, M7 has auto exposure, M6 and MP have ttl meters and there are some complaints(boo hoo) that the shutter speed dial rotates in the "wrong" direction. M6/MP are available with different magnification finders.

M4p has no self timer and framelines for 28/35/50/90/135mm lenses but does have a hot shoe. Does have the rapid loading system

M4 has a rapid loading feature that makes it quicker to load than M2/M3.
Has Self timer, framelines for 35/50/90/135mm .72 magnification & crank on the rewind. No meter.

M3 bottom loading, framelines for 50/90/135mm, pull up rewind knob. .91 finder magnification. Take up spool has to be removed to reset counter. No meter.

M2 bottom loading, framelines for 35/50/90mm pull up rewind knob & manual set film counter. .72 magnifier. No meter.

M2/M3 may or may not have self timer or frame preview lever depending on when it was made.

I currently have an M3 and wear glasses. The 50mm framelines are difficult to see without moving my head, but the higher magnification makes for more accurate focus. The M2 is better in being able to see the 50 lines, but not enough difference for me to change.

I use 21/28 & 50mm lenses with Aux finders for the 21&28.

I've heard of quality differences in Canadian & German cameras but wouldn't be swayed by that myself. Folks on another forum are constantly asking what's the best Leica 50 or 35mm lens or body for me.
People that say they can see the difference make my eye glaze over.