Dentist with a license can get a Hasselblad, but Hasselblad ownership is not necessarily bringing in a dentist license. This deeply thoughtful thought aside, any Hasselblad - dentist relations have just been nothing but jokes. Fun ends when people take it seriously.
Some people without a dog in the fight get kicks by insulting Hasselblad and Leica owners. Whatever floats their boat. I do not think that the Hasselblad and Leica owners who get insults thrown at them care enough to even response.
It's risky to extrapolate from Leica's sales, but something is definitely up. The market has gone haywire and a lot of people are picking up film cameras for what appears to be a variety of reasons (tactility, authenticity, novelty). I'm into it if it means we get more film stocks
You expect this trolling on Dpreview. But I even see some of this on The Online Photographer, whose readers are largely an erudite and serious group. And some of them still need to squeal up about how they dropped film 25 years ago and would never go back, etc., etc. A compulsion to ram this fact down other participant's throats? Do they think film users even care?
Although I don't understand why people need to put down Leica (and people that buy Leicas) every time the name gets mentioned, I do think that the new M6 was more of a marketing stunt than anything else. They successfully created a buzz and speculation about what the new camera will be like. And cashed on it even though they came up with the most boring "new" film camera you could imagine.
A photo club buddy of mine with extra cash at hand was among the first ones to get one of the new M6. [...]
I can imagine, that this episode leaves some bitter taste behind, and it does create the impression, that most initial M6 customers' new toys ended up in glass cabinets and not in camera bags. Obviously this doesn't justify trolling or general derision of Leica buyers, especially now, when the pressure plate issue appears to have been corrected.
A photo club buddy of mine with extra cash at hand was among the first ones to get one of the new M6. There was something wrong with the pressure plate scratching his film, so he exchanged the camera, same problem with 3 cameras. Seems to have been a series error, because after a few months the issue was finally officially recognized by Leica and the pressure plate replaced with something that doesn't leave nasty scratches on the film.
I can imagine, that this episode leaves some bitter taste behind, and it does create the impression, that most initial M6 customers' new toys ended up in glass cabinets and not in camera bags. Obviously this doesn't justify trolling or general derision of Leica buyers, especially now, when the pressure plate issue appears to have been corrected.
I think that it’s particularly irritating because of the excessively long “turnaround” time. IIRC, customers waited months for Leica to replace the pressure plates on the effected cameras. I have three Leica film bodies: two M4-Ps and one M4. I use one or two of these almost daily. I have had some minor problems with one or two of these occasionally scratching film (on the backside which is a pretty clear indication that something might be amiss with the pressure plate). I actually tried, several years ago, to have Leica send me a pressure plate (or two) so that I might replace these myself. The New Jersey company replied that they no longer made those items. Now, that doesn’t make sense to me unless the pressure plates on these newer M6’s a different from the original? Could be. But, how then does my regular technician obtain these parts?
The way the M6 pressure plate situation was explained to me was, that Leica stopped making these plates in Germany, had the new M6 plates made in East Asia and that the resulting product was out of spec. They may have placed an order for M6 pressure plates but not for older models. After those with Leicas in their camera bags started looking at their film strips and found scratches, too, the few remaining M4 spare parts may have quickly been sold and could not easily been remade.
That's pure conjecture, but after decades in engineering it sort of makes sense to me.
After those with Leicas in their camera bags started looking at their film strips and found scratches, too, the few remaining M4 spare parts may have quickly been sold and could not easily been remade.
That's pure conjecture, but after decades in engineering it sort of makes sense to me.
So, M6 with defective plates were fixed by spare M4 plates and now Leica can't make M6 anymore? Yeah, I'm not buying it...
People started noticing scratches after 50 years?
Are you sure, that most M4 owners today are the same people as those owning these cameras 50 years ago?
You think that pressure plates start scratching film when the owners change? Now THAT would be very strange, indeed.
Suddenly it does affect older models ...I never heard of film scratching isssues with any of the previous models. Maybe I was not paying attention. At least I never had issues with multiple vintage M’s. Have used on M2,M3,M4,M5,M6 (old version).
And more. Typical pattern, concerned Leica owners suddenly look more carefully and sure enough suddenly find tiny and previously ignored defects:Neither of my Leicas scratches film. But if it is at the edge of the tolerances then only a small number of cameras would be affected. Since 2003 there are known reports of MP and M-A and now recently new M6 cameras scratching film.
It appears both my Leica IIIf and M3 put tiny microscratches into the film which I had not noticed before.
I believe you might be on to something, 5/8 Leica film M bodies (all within last few year production) I own have micro scratches when i compared the negatives today.
BTW, is the M4 pressure plate "problem" of today a widely know problem now or just a wild conclusion from a lone testament of @TomR55 about a problem that happened years ago before the introduction of the new M6?
Largely unrelated to this thread, but the amount of hate towards Leica is something I fail to understand.
There seems to be no shortage of senior amateur photographers spending tens of thousands of $ on huge plasticy manlet toys like the Nikon Z9 or any of those pixel shifting triple sensor mega sonic AF Sony mirror less monstrosities - and nobody will bat an eyelid.
The irony here is that you fail to understand the source of criticism towards what is now largely a luxury brand and then turn around and say what you just did about another camera.
I have been a professional photographer for about 36 years and I love using my Leica film and d_gital, Hasselblad film and d_gital and Nikon film and d_gital. In fact, I have an amazing state of the art darkroom but also have some 320TB of storage that has archived about 1.5M photos, will having been using d_gital for 30 years this Fall.
I helped advise Nikon on the Z9 through NPS in its final development stages, my specific area was the implementation of the sensor shield which it has. In turn, Nikon gave people what I consider to be the very best camera they have ever made, regardless of media used and no, it is not "plasticy" as you state, it is all metal. Sure, you have the amateur set being staunch gear heads and hardly producing anything really meaningful to the history of photography in terms of images, what else is new? They all do the same damn thing with a huge variety of gear and then turn around and brag about their brand and put down others, this is not exclusive to the d_gital realm. But you also have super talented people producing stellar imagery that pushes the limits of the mind, body and gear, please don't reduce them to what was said above.
Photrio with its now more diverse set of topics and users is well positioned to flourish where other forums might come to pass. But the kind of comment above will also drive people away if it were to become more commonplace.
I suggest you re-think what you have asserted about a brilliant photographic tool.
Suggestion rejected!
Sorry, I couldn't care less about what the Z9 is made of. I have nothing against it, mind you. I just picked the first that came to mind as an example of some people's double standards. Personally I would never waste my money on one, but that's just me. Aside from that, I've actually been using Nikons exclusively for 25 years. So you're barking at the wrong tree.
In general - relax. Accept that other people have other opinions.
Personally, I have no skin in the game. I don't own a Leica, but dismissing it as a 'luxury' brand while suggesting that a battery powered vaguely imaging-related portable computer should be immune from criticism seems extremely odd to me. Or probably just culturally alien. Again, I wonder if people flaunt their money in a different way that side of the pond.
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