Leica sold 10 times as many film cameras in 2023 than it did in 2015

[Agulliver]

It has been widely reported that Leica sold 10x the number of film cameras in 2023 as it sold in 2015....some 5000 compared to 500 eight years earlier. For a camera costing several thousand dollarpounds and with a naturally small target market, that's pretty impressive.

It does make me think that if they can do that with a 6,000 dollarpound camera, Pentax can have success with a 600 pound dollarpound camera and sell thousands of units over the lifetime of the product.

 

[bfilm]

Yes, the success Leica is having with their film cameras is encouraging. And I do think there is great potential for Pentax film cameras. I hope to see Pentax make something of real quality.

 

[albireo]

Just in case anyone has missed this:

Leica sold 10 times as many film cameras in 2023 than it did in 2015

Leica’s decision to bring back its classic M6 rangefinder on 2022 looks like it was a good one: the German camera maker ended up selling 10 times as many film cameras in 2023 than it did in 2…

kosmofoto.com

In our factories, you can still see old machines dedicated to film cameras in operation. But in 2015, we thought about throwing everything away because we were only producing 500 film cameras per year. But there has been a nice rebound since then and, in 2023, we will produce nearly 5,000 M6 and MP analogue devices.

Great news and I hope the Pentax film photography project capitalises on this clear trend.

 

[Kino]

Pentax Film Project: Lost Engineering Being Reborn

The first details on the Pentax Film Project; a compact 35mm camera is in development. Plus stories of the struggle to bring back lost technologies

www.pentaxforums.com

“When our development team held an in-house meeting to check on the camera structure, there were some parts that we believed were simply unnecessary. Even after lengthy deliberations, we always came to this conclusion. However, when we met with retired engineers who were more experienced with film cameras, they let us know that we didn’t understand anything, because those parts were most essential to the mechanism. They even made a joke of our ignorance and misunderstanding.”

 

[MattKing]

Threads merged

 

[DF]

Are these purchases for Leica's by real photographers - those who'll actually go OUT and shoot and process/develop,etc. - or investment pieces added to those with ever so growing portfolios?

 

[chuckroast]

Are these purchases for Leica's by real photographers - those who'll actually go OUT and shoot and process/develop,etc. - or investment pieces added to those with ever so growing portfolios?

Some yes, and some no. I mostly shoot MF and LF. When the oppty presented itself, I bough a recently CLAed M2 because I always wanted and M body. The difference between and M2 and an M6 is way less than the difference between, say, an M6 and a Nikon F4, so an M2 is all I needed.

Some will buy the new M6 as a lifestyle statement. Some will buy it to flaunt their wealth. But, some will buy it to actually use rigorously.

Wanna see? Some M2/Summicron 50mm f/2 pix from this last weekend. Scans of silver prints made from semistand developed negatives:

https://www.tundraware.com/Photogra...dia/large/20240113-1-17-Tw:blink:f_A_Kind.jpg

https://www.tundraware.com/Photography/Gallery/Silver/media/large/20240113-1-24-Snow_Glade.jpg

 

[Hassasin]

Number of film cameras Leica sells is no measure of the state of general interest in film based photography, not even close.

And in the end this is nothing but just another piece of PR campaign, telling the world, if you have that not-so small a change left over, get a Leica film camera, we do make them. And BTW you do not have to use them, they look good as book ends too.

Nothing against spending big money on a film camera, just what happened in 2015 and now at that level of investment should not make anyone salivating over the state of film, or potential for other brands making a come back into film camera manufacturing.

And whoever starts marketing a new film camera is not going to make it for the photographer at large, as none will sell in numbers justifying scale pricing.

 

[albireo]

Largely unrelated to this thread, but the amount of hate towards Leica is something I fail to understand.

There seems to be no shortage of senior amateur photographers spending tens of thousands of $ on huge plasticy manlet toys like the Nikon Z9 or any of those pixel shifting triple sensor mega sonic AF Sony mirror less monstrosities - and nobody will bat an eyelid.

However - when someone gets a Leica M camera, a marvel of engineering that will keep working like a Swiss watch long after those Z9 have become little more than another dusty Playstation joypad in a storage box - then that is met with suspicion, mockery etc. Yep, the owner only wanted an investment. Yep it's just another Patek Philippe.

Anecdotally, I've been travelling a lot around Europe for work lately. I keep seeing younger film photographers out and about and we always stop to chat. Some of them will be using some kind of compact camera. Many will be using a Leica rangefinder. And by using I mean using. We always exchange contacts afterwards, and I'm always surprised at the quality of their work with those Leicas. And even with those Mju II.

I don't have an M and will probably never own one (I like my Rolleis too much) but it's a great company and I wish them every success during the film photography revival. Looking forward to Pentax jumping back in, too!

 

[Hassasin]

The degree of hate towards Leicas is something I fail to understand. I wonder if it's more of an Anglo-Saxon thing. Are Leicas seen more as a status symbol in the US and UK rather than mainland Europe perhaps?

Plenty of senior amateur photographers spending tens of thousands of $ on huge plasticy manlet toys like the Nikon Z9 or any of those pixel shifting triple sensor mega sonic AF Sony mirror less monstrosities - and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Now add one of those huge f/1.2 primes or those tacky superzooms with last generation image stabilisation and 6 lanthanium-plutonium corrected elements. Great pictures of the backyard picket fence or the neighbour's cat if there will be pictures at all.

However - when someone gets an M camera, a marvel of engineering that will keep working like a Swiss watch long after those Z9 have become little more than another dusty Playstation joypad in a storage box - then that is met with suspicion. Yep, the owner only wanted an investment. Yep it's just another Patek Philippe.

Anecdotally, I've been travelling a lot around Europe for work lately. I keep seeing younger film photographers out and about and we always stop to chat. Some of them will be using some kind of compact camera. Many will be using a Leica rangefinder. And by using I mean using. We always exchange contacts afterwards, and I'm always surprised at the quality of their work with those Leicas. And even with those Mju II.

I don't have an M and will probably never own one (I like my Rolleis too much) but it's a great company and I wish them every success during the film photography revival. Looking forward to Pentax jumping back in, too!

Where exactly do you see "hate" towards Leica? And "most" shooting Leica rangefinder? Where in Davos? Leica M is an expensive camera, no matter how you want to slice it. Lenses put it out of reach for most who dream of one. And its usability is not as universal as some other types. Leica's greatness has some myth in it, which is not to say it isn't a desirable camera to some (or maybe many, just not all of them can afford it) who actually shoot film.

Note that this is about new Leica not an old barnack that can be had for around $500 (which is still expensive for what it does).

 

[albireo]

Where exactly do you see "hate" towards Leica? And "most" shooting Leica rangefinder?

You wouldn't believe. There are absolutely toxic communities out there focused on mocking whoever uses a Leica. It's truly puzzling.

 

[Hassasin]

You wouldn't believe. There are absolutely toxic communities out there focused on mocking whoever uses a Leica. It's truly puzzling.

I thought yoiu were referring to some comments in this thread. I think the Leica haters are as same as any hater: can't have it, or can't achieve it, jealousy goes prime time, hate is all there is left.

 

[Agulliver]

The one big name left in the game reports an increase in sales, while at least one other big name is looking at re-entering the market.

Photrio..."Doom, gloom, it means nothing".

And people actually wonder why the outside world looks upon us with disdain.

 

[koraks]

And people actually wonder why the outside world looks upon us with disdain.

They do?

Either way - if you think this is a doom & gloom thread (doesn't look like it to me), I'm sure it won't help to take on a despondent attitude and blame pretty much everyone and everything.

If you post news, it gets discussed. That some viewpoints don't agree with yours, is a given. You'll have to learn to live with that.

 

[brbo]

Although I don't understand why people need to put down Leica (and people that buy Leicas) every time the name gets mentioned, I do think that the new M6 was more of a marketing stunt than anything else. They successfully created a buzz and speculation about what the new camera will be like. And cashed on it even though they came up with the most boring "new" film camera you could imagine. Both currently produced Leica film cameras at the time of (re)introduction of M6, MP and M-A, are either better or at least as good (MP) or make more sense (M-A) in this "back to the roots" film age than M6.

Leica would've killed it by coming up with a brand new AF p&s with a stellar lens. But, obviously, they would need to put some real r&d money into it and they wouldn't be able to sell it for $5000. I hope Mint and Ricoh/Pentax can somehow find their customers for their new cameras. I guess the new $800 Mint Rollei 35 AF p&s won't sell in tens let alone hundreds of thousands. I wonder if Ricoh can introduce a film camera with features and/or price that every film shooter would want it and also could afford it...

 

[albireo]

I thought yoiu were referring to some comments in this thread.

Oh no no. I meant stuff often found elsewhere, proper vicious stuff. I've amended my comment above to clarify it was a general observation/rant

 

[Chan Tran]

If I were to buy a Leica I would be more likely to buy a film camera than a digital camera.

 

[Rayt]

Anything about Leica even in a Leica forum becomes a platform for class struggle. A lousy pic shot with a $35 Takumar is a badge of courage while a lousy pic shot with a $3400 Summicron solicits anti dentistry remarks!

 

[Hassasin]

Anything about Leica even in a Leica forums becomes a forum for class struggle. A lousy pic shot with a $35 Takumar is a badge of courage while a lousy pic shot with a $3400 Summicron solicits anti dentistry remarks!

Haven't dentists gone Phase One latest though ? Leica anything at any price point sells for a pocket change, comparatively.

 

[Rayt]

Haven't dentists gone Phase One latest though ? Leica anything at any price point sells for a pocket change, comparatively.

A common question is to ask whether that Leica purchase is to use or collect? People don’t leave such comments about Phase One.

 

[armadsen]

Are these purchases for Leica's by real photographers - those who'll actually go OUT and shoot and process/develop,etc. - or investment pieces added to those with ever so growing portfolios?

I'm not old (late 30s), have been an amateur photographer ~my whole life, and have always wanted a Leica. I bought a brand new MP about 2 years ago with money from a bonus I got at work. It is very much not an investment piece. I use it all the time, have taken it to quite a few states, and overseas, etc. I process, scan, and darkroom print my B&W film (color I send to a lab, then scan myself). It's anecdotal of course, but I also have a number of local, youngish friends who shoot on Leica film cameras (bought used).

I can't exactly justify the purchase through pure financial calculation. After all, I don't make money with it, and it doesn't take better photos than a used M2 would have, let alone an even cheaper camera. But life and my hobbies would sure be boring if everything had to make perfect financial sense. I "get" to spend my money on plenty of purely necessary things, and buying a finely crafted, keep-it-for-life camera that I love carrying around and using was well worth it to me.

(And I'm not a dentist )

 

[Chan Tran]

A common question is to ask whether that Leica purchase is to use or collect? People don’t leave such comments about Phase One.

If you buy Phase One you have to use it otherwise you waste your money. If you buy a Leica film camera you can keep and it doesn't lose much in value.

 

[MattKing]

Thirty years ago, it was possible to spend large amounts of money on several different competing new and currently made film cameras, including Leica.
By 2015, there was almost nothing left in the market outside of Leica where one could do that, and almost no-one was buying.
Things have rebounded a little, but there isn't much choice compared to 30 years ago.
Thus at least some of the unhappiness around.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Largely unrelated to this thread, but the amount of hate towards Leica is something I fail to understand. I wonder if it's more of an Anglo-Saxon thing. Are Leicas seen more as a status symbol in the US and UK rather than mainland Europe perhaps?

Plenty of senior amateur photographers spending tens of thousands of $ on huge plasticy manlet toys like the Nikon Z9 or any of those pixel shifting triple sensor mega sonic AF Sony mirror less monstrosities - and nobody will bat an eyelid.

However - when someone gets a Leica M camera, a marvel of engineering that will keep working like a Swiss watch long after those Z9 have become little more than another dusty Playstation joypad in a storage box - then that is met with suspicion. Yep, the owner only wanted an investment. Yep it's just another Patek Philippe.

Anecdotally, I've been travelling a lot around Europe for work lately. I keep seeing younger film photographers out and about and we always stop to chat. Some of them will be using some kind of compact camera. Many will be using a Leica rangefinder. And by using I mean using. We always exchange contacts afterwards, and I'm always surprised at the quality of their work with those Leicas. And even with those Mju II.

I don't have an M and will probably never own one (I like my Rolleis too much) but it's a great company and I wish them every success during the film photography revival. Looking forward to Pentax jumping back in, too!

I own and use my Hasselblads. About 10 years ago when I used them I would get asked if film was still available. I very rarely get asked that any more. I have only been accused of being a medical doctor or a dentist on the internet at photographic websites such as Photrio, Photo.net et al, but never in the real world. Some people without a dog in the fight get kicks by insulting Hasselblad and Leica owners. Whatever floats their boat. I do not think that the Hasselblad and Leica owners who get insults thrown at them care enough to even response.

 

[Hassasin]

Dentist with a license can get a Hasselblad, but Hasselblad ownership is not necessarily bringing in a dentist license. This deeply thoughtful thought aside, any Hasselblad - dentist relations have just been nothing but jokes. Fun ends when people take it seriously.